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NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Pastors Get Rich

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 Excellent points Mike.


Here is an interesting article with many of the points you've already made on The Net Team:


http://www.cultwatch.com/HowPastorsGetRich.html


NAME:: Mike Rowland

FROM:: Religious America

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This sums up the hearts of the religious Bible toters, who chime in right  on all of high sounding verses. They will kill you in the spirit and if you step on the wrong toes will start their own inquisition. 

They do not know God. Here is the Bible on this subject. Highminded traitors,

 fierce, despisers, false accusers, lovers of their own selves etc..........

 

2 Tim 3:3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

 




NAME:: Bro Rowland

FROM:: Few are Finding

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Hello Net Team (LITTLE FLOCK)

Here are a few of my favorite verses that describe the religious world today,

just as is was in time past.  However Jesus did say that the generation that you and 

I live in today, would be far more corrupt. 

This religious bunch of people living today are so crafty that anyone going to them 

for encouragement and direction is forever lost as they swallow them alive like an

open sepulchre trap.

 

Jer 2:8  The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.

 

Jer 5: 13  And the prophets shall become wind, and the word is not in them: thus shall it be done unto them.

 

Jer 14: 15  Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.

 

16  And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.

 

Jer 10: 3  For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.

 

4  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

 

Jer 12: 10  Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

 

Ezek 22: 25  There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.

26  Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

 

 

 




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http://remnantshope.com/written.php?content=management/written/timbutler/christmas.htm

 

Should a Christian Celebrate Christmas?

By Brother Tim Butler

There is no Biblical warrant, precedent, nor precept for remembrance of the day of Christ's birth as a day of special religious celebration. This is not to say that we shouldn't remember Christ's birth and its significance, but for religious commemorations or celebrations, we must have Biblical command or precedent! The fact of the matter is this -- the early church did not celebrate Christ's birth, but such celebration only came into the church with the "Christianization" of pagan rites as Catholicism was made the state religion by Constantine in the fourth century A.D. Since the Word of God does not support the tradition of Christmas, a Christian's conscience ought not and must not be bound.

The following outline describes the origin of Christmas (with its associated pagan customs, symbols, and terminology), details the Scriptural support against celebrating Christmas, attempts to show that celebrating Christmas violates the spirit of every one of the ten commandments, attempts to demonstrate that celebrating Christmas does not fall in the realm of Christian liberty, and attempts to debunk eight of the major rationalizations Christians put forth for celebrating Christmas.

I. The Origin of Christmas

A. A Long Evolution -- Christmas customs are an evolution from times long before the Christian period -- a descent from seasonal, pagan, religious, and national practices, hedged about with legend and tradition. Their seasonal connections with the pagan feasts of the winter solstice relate them to ancient times, when many of the earth's inhabitant's were sun worshipers. As the superstitious pagans observed the sun gradually moving south in the heavens and the days growing shorter, they believed the sun was departing never to return. To encourage the sun's return north (i.e., to give the winter sun god strength and to bring him back to life again), the sun gods were worshipped with elaborate rituals and ceremonies, including the building of great bonfires, decorating with great evergreen plants such as holly, ivy, and mistletoe, and making representations of summer birds as house decorations. The winter solstice, then, was the shortest day of the year, when the sun seemingly stood still in the southern sky. Observing the slowdown in the sun's southward movement, and its stop, the heathen believed that their petitions to it had been successful. A time of unrestrained rejoicing broke out, with revelry, drinking, and gluttonous feasts. Then, when the pagans observed the sun moving again northward, and a week later were able to determine that the days were growing longer, a new year was proclaimed.

B. Not Among the Earliest Christian Festivals

--

Christmas was not among the earliest festivals of the Church. It was not celebrated, commemorated, or observed, neither by the apostles nor in the apostolic church -- not for at least the first 300 years of church history! History reveals that about 440 A.D., the Church at Jerusalem commenced the celebration of Christmas, following the lead of Roman Catholicism (see I.C.). [It was sufficient for the early Christians that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, had been born. They praised God that Jesus Christ had, indeed, come in the flesh. The day and the time of His birth had no relevance to them, because Jesus was no longer physically on earth. He had returned to heaven. And it was the risen, exalted Christ whom they looked to, and that by faith -- not a babe laid in a manger. Jesus Christ is no longer a baby; no longer the "Christ-child," but the exalted Lord of all. And He does NOT somehow return to earth as a baby every year at Christmas-time -- though this is the impression given even in certain hymns sung in Protestant services.]

C. The Role of Religion in Ancient

Rome> -- Seemingly forgotten is the essential role religion played in the world of ancient Rome . But the Emperor Constantine understood. By giving official status to Christianity, he brought internal peace to the Empire. A brilliant military commander, he also had the genius to recognize that after declaring Christianity the "state" religion (Constantine forced all the pagans of his empire to be baptized into the Roman Church), there was need for true union between paganism and Christianity. The corrupt Roman Church was full of pagans now masquerading as Christians, all of which had to be pacified. What better way than to "Christianize" their pagan idolatries. Thus, the Babylonian mystery religions were introduced by Constantine beginning in 313 A.D. (and established a foothold with the holding of the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.). The Constantine-led Roman Church was more than willing to adapt and adopt pagan practices in order to make Christianity palatable to the heathen. Constantine used religion as a political tool, totally devoid of any true spirituality: • Pagan rituals and idols took on Christian names (e.g., Jesus Christ was presented as the Sun of Righteousness [Malachi 4:2] replacing the sun god, Sol Invictus ). • Pagan holidays were reclassified as Christian holidays (holy-days). • December 25th was the "Victory of the Sun-God" Festival in the pagan Babylonian world. In the ancient Roman Empire, the celebration can be traced back to the Roman festival Saturnalia, which honored Saturn, the harvest god, and Mithras, the god of light; both were celebrated during or shortly after the winter solstice (between the 17th and 23rd of December). To all ancient pagan civilizations, December 25th was the birthday of the gods -- the time of year when the days began to lengthen and man was blessed with a "regeneration of nature." Moreover, all of December 25th's Babylonian and Roman festivals were characterized by 5-7 day celebration periods of unrestrained or orgiastic revelry and licentiousness. December 25th was particularly important in the cult of Mithras, a popular deity in the Old Roman Empire. Robert Myers (a proponent for celebrating Christmas) in his book Celebrations says: "Prior to the celebration of Christmas, December 25th in the Roman world was the Natalis Solis Invicti, the Birthday of the Unconquerable Sun. This feast, which took place just after the winter solstice of the Julian calendar, was in honor of the Sun God, Mithras, originally a Persian deity whose cult penetrated the Roman world in the first century B.C. ... Besides the Mithraic influence, other pagan forces were at work. From the seventeenth of December until the twenty-third, Romans celebrated the ancient feast of the Saturnalia. ... It was commemorative of the Golden Age of Saturn, the god of sowing and husbandry." In order to make Christianity palatable to the heathen, the Roman Church simply took Saturnalia, adopted it into Christianity, and then eventually many of the associated pagan symbols, forms, customs, and traditions were reinterpreted (i.e., "Christianized") in ways "acceptable" to Christian faith and practice. (In fact, in 375 A.D., the Church of Rome under Pope Julius I merely announced that the birth date of Christ had been "discovered" to be December 25th, and was accepted as such by the "faithful." The festival of Saturnalia and the birthday of Mithras could now be celebrated as the birthday of Christ!) The pagans flocked into the Catholic places of worship, because they were still able to worship their old gods, but merely under different names. It mattered not to them whether they worshiped the Egyptian goddess mother and her child under the old names (Isis and Horus), or under the names of the "Virgin Mary" and the "Christ-child." Either way, it was the same old idol-religion (cf. 1 Thes. 1:8-10; 5:22 -- Paul says to turn from idols, not rename them and Christianize them). Roman Catholicism's Christmas Day is nothing but "baptized" paganism, having come along much too late to be part of "the faith once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3). D. "Christianization" of Pagan Customs, Symbols, and Terminology -- Christianity had to undergo a transformation so that pagan Rome could "convert" without giving up its old beliefs and rituals. The actual effect was to paganize official Christianity. "'A compound religion had been manufactured, of which ... Christianity furnished the nomenclature, and Paganism the doctrines and rights.' The idolatry of the Roman world, though deposed from its ancient pre-eminence, had by no means been demolished. Instead of this, its pagan nakedness had been covered with the garb of a deformed Christianity" (W.E. Vine). Pagan customs involving vestments, candles, incense, images, and processions were all incorporated into church worship and continue today. The following customs and traditions associated with Xmas all have pagan/heathen origins. ("Xmas" is the more preferable form for the day, since it at least leaves the name of our Savior out of the heathen observance.) Naturally, Christians would not keep these customs for such evil and perverse reasons, but the fact of their origins remain -- "the customs of the people are vain" (Jer. 10:3), and should thereby be carefully considered by all who know and love the Lord: 1. The blasphemous "Christ's Mass" shortened to "Christ-mas" -- The Roman Catholic "Christ's Mass" is a special mass performed in celebration of Christ's birth. In this mass, Jesus is considered both the priest and the victim, represented by the Catholic priest who offers Him as a sacrifice each time the mass is performed. In offering this "sacrifice," the priest believes he has the power to change the bread and the wine of the Communion into Jesus' literal flesh and blood, requiring the people to worship these elements as they do God Himself. This is obviously a denial of the gospel, and thereby, a false gospel (a re-doing of the sacrifice for sin -- Heb. 9:12 , 24-26; 10:10 style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "comic sans ms"; color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">,12,14). Yet, many who cry out all year long against the blasphemous Roman Catholic system, at year-end embrace style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "comic sans ms";">Rome 's most blasphemous abomination of them all -- Christmas! 2. Nativity Scenes (tainted with paganism) -- Nearly every form of pagan worship descended from the Babylonian mysteries, which focus attention on the "mother-goddess" and the birth of her child. This was adapted to "Mary- Jesus" worship, which then easily accommodated the multitude of pagans "converted" to Christianity inside Constantine 's Roman Catholic Church. [If anyone were to erect statues (i.e., images) of Mary and Joseph by themselves, many within Protestant circles would cry "Idolatry!" But at Xmas time, an image of a little baby is placed with the images of Mary and Joseph, and it's called a "nativity scene." Somehow, the baby-idol "sanctifies" the scene, and it is no longer considered idolatry!] (cf. Exo. 20:4-5a; 32:1-5; 9-10a) 3. Christmas Tree -- Evergreen trees, because of their ability to remain green through-out the winter season when most other forms of vegetation are dormant, have long symbolized immortality, fertility, sexual potency, and reproduction, and were often brought into homes and set up as idols. The full mystical significance of the evergreen can only be understood when one considers the profound reverence the ancient pagans had for all natural phenomena -- "To them, Nature was everywhere alive. Every fountain had its spirit, every mountain its deity, and every water, grove, and meadow, its supernatural association. The whispering of the trees ... was the subtle speech of the gods who dwelt within" (W.M. Auld, Christmas Traditions). This is nothing but nature worship or Animism. The custom of bringing the tree into the home and decorating it as is done today has legendarily been attributed to Martin Luther. In truth, the modern custom has been lost in obscurity, but almost every culture has some such tradition. For ages, evergreen trees would be brought into the house during the winter as magic symbols of luck and hope for a fruitful year to come, It may also be that the star with which many of today's trees are topped did not originate as a representation of the star that the wise men followed, but rather a representation of the stars to which the ancient Chaldean astrologers looked for guidance. The first decorating of an evergreen was done by pagans in honor of their god Adonis, who after being slain was brought to life by the serpent Aesculapius. The representation of the slain Adonis was a dead stump of a tree. Around this stump coiled the snake -- Aesculapius, symbol of life restoring. From the roots of the dead tree, then comes forth another and different tree -- an evergreen tree, symbolic to pagans of a god who cannot die! In Babylon , the evergreen tree came to represent the rebirth/reincarnation of Nimrod as his new son (Sun), Tammuz. In Egypt , this god was worshiped in a palm tree as Baal-Tamar. (Heathen people in the land of Canaan also adopted tree worship, calling it the Asherah -- a tree with its branches cut off was carved into a phallic symbol.) The fir tree was worshiped in Rome as the same new-born god, named Baal-Berith, who was restored to life by the same serpent. A feast was held in honor of him on December 25th, observed as the day on which the god reappeared on earth -- he had been killed, and was "reborn" on that day, victorious over death! It was called the "Birthday of the Unconquered Sun." Thus, the annual custom of erecting and decorating evergreen trees was brought down to us through the centuries by the pagan Roman Catholic Church -- the paganism of Tammuz and Baal, or the worship of the sun, mingled with the worship of Aesculapius the serpent. Whether erected in private homes or in churches, decorated or not, the evergreen tree is a glaring symbol of this false god. 4. Christmas Wreaths -- In pagan mythology, evergreen means eternal life and a never-dying existence. Made from evergreens, Christmas wreaths were most frequently round, which symbolized the sun (just as do halos in most religious art). Hence, the round Xmas wreaths stand for an eternal sun, a never-dying or self-renewing sun. In addition, the round form can also relate to the sign of the female, which stands for the regeneration of life. Because of these pagan associations, the Christian church was initially hostile towards the use of wreaths and other evergreen derivatives. But in the same way it Christianized other pagan traditions, the church soon found a way to confer its own symbolic meanings. For example, the sharp pointed leaves of the "male" holly came to represent Christ's crown of thorns and the red berries His blood, while the "female" ivy symbolized immortality (Sulgrave Manor, "A Tudor Christmas," p. 6). Such wreaths now not only adorn churches at Christmas time, but are also appearing during the Easter season. 5. Mistletoe -- The use of the mistletoe plant (which is poisonous to both man and animals) can be traced back to the ancient Druids. (The Druids were pagan Celtic priests who were considered magicians and wizards.) It represented the false "messiah," considered by the Druids to be a divine branch that had dropped from heaven and grew upon a tree on earth. This is an obvious corruption of God's prophetic Word concerning Christ, "the Man the Branch," coming from heaven. The mistletoe symbolized the reconciliation between God and man. And since a kiss is the well known symbol of reconciliation, that is how "kissing under the mistletoe" became a custom -- both were tokens of reconciliation. The mistletoe, being a sacred plant and a symbol of fertility, was also believed to contain certain magical powers, having been brought to earth from heaven by a mistle thrush carrying it in its toes (hence the name). It was once known as the "plant of peace," and in ancient Scandinavia , enemies were reconciled under it (yet another reason why people came to "kiss under the mistletoe"). It was supposed to bring "good luck" and fertility, and even to protect the house in which it hung from witchcraft. A kiss is also something which is, at times, associated with lust. So the practice of "kissing under the mistletoe" also had roots in the orgiastic celebrations in connection with the Celtic Midsummer Eve ceremony. At the time the mistletoe was gathered, the men would kiss each other as a display of their homosexuality. (The custom was later broadened to include both men and women.) Kissing under the mistletoe is also reminiscent of the temple prostitution and sexual license prolificating during Roman Saturnalia. 6. Santa Claus -- Santa Claus or "Father Christmas" is a corruption of the Dutch "Sant Nikolaas." ("Saint Nicholas" was the 4th century Catholic bishop of Myra in Asia Minor , who gave treats to children; he was canonized by the Roman Catholic Church, "regarded as a special friend and protector of children." The red suit comes from the fact that Catholic bishops and cardinals in Italy wear red.) Santa Claus was also known as "Kriss Kringle," a corruption of the German "Christ Kindl "-- Christ Child. This has to be one of the most subtle of Satan's blasphemies, yet most Christians are unaware of it. Originally, the Santa Claus concept came from the pagan Egyptian god, Bes, a rotund, gnome-like personage who was the patron of little children. Bes was said to live at the North Pole, working year-round to produce toys for children who had been good and obedient to their parents. In Dutch, he was called "Sinter Klaas." Dutch settlers brought the custom to America . In Holland and other European countries, the original Santa Claus was actually a grim personage who traversed the countryside, determined to find out who really had been "naughty or nice." Those who had been acting up were summarily switched. The association of Santa Claus with snow, raindeer, and the North Pole suggests Scandinavian or Norse traditions of the Yuletide season. [In Babylonia , also, the stag (raindeer) was a symbol of the mighty one, Nimrod. The symbolism of antlers worn on the head of a noble leader would demonstrate his prowess as a hunter, and thereby, influence people to follow him.] Santa is the blasphemous substitute for God! He is routinely given supernatural powers and divine attributes which only GOD has. Think about it. He is made out to be omniscient -- he knows when every child sleeps, awakes, has been bad or good, and knows exactly what every child wants (cf. Psa. 139:1-4). He is made out to be omnipresent -- on one night of the year he visits all the "good" children in the world and leaves them gifts, seemingly being everywhere at the same time. He is also made out to be omnipotent -- he has the power to give to each child exactly what each one wants. Moreover, Santa Claus is made out to be a sovereign judge -- he answers to no one and no one has authority over him, and when he "comes to town," he comes with a full bag of rewards for those whose behavior has been acceptable in his eyes. Santa Claus has become one of the most popular and widely accepted and unopposed myths ever to be successfully interwoven into the fabric and framework of Christianity. It is a fact that Christ was born, and that truth should greatly rejoice the heart of every Christian. But the Santa Claus myth distorts the truth of Christ's birth by subtly blending truth with the myth of Santa Claus. When Christian parents lie to their children about Santa Claus, they are taking the attention of their children away from God and causing them to focus on a fat man in a red suit with godlike qualities. All of this teaches the child to believe that, just like Santa, God can be pleased with "good works," done in order to earn His favor. Also, they teach that no matter how bad the child has been, he will still be rewarded by God -- just as Santa never failed to bring gifts. Even in homes of professing Christians, Santa Claus has clearly displaced Jesus in the awareness and affections of children, becoming the undisputed spirit, symbol, and centerpiece of Christmas. 7. Christmas Eve -- "Yule" is a Chaldean word meaning "infant." Long before the coming of Christianity, the heathen Anglo-Saxons called the 25th of December "Yule day" -- in other words, "infant day" or "child's day" -- the day they celebrated the birth of the false "messiah"! The night before "Yule day" was called "Mother night." Today it is called "Christmas Eve." And it wasn't called "Mother night" after Mary, the mother of our Lord -- "Mother night" was observed centuries before Jesus was born. Semiramis (Nimrod's wife) was the inspiration for "Mother night," and "Child's day" was the supposed birthday of her son (Tammuz), the sun-god! 8. Yule Log -- The Yule log was considered by the ancient Celts a sacred log to be used in their religious festivals during the winter solstice; the fire provided promises of good luck and long life. Each year's Yule log had to be selected in the forest on Christmas Eve by the family using it, and could not be bought, or the superstitions associated with it would not apply. In Babylonian paganism, the log placed in the fireplace represented the dead Nimrod, and the tree which appeared the next morning (which today is called the "Christmas tree") was Nimrod alive again (reincarnated) in his new son (sun), Tammuz. (Still today in some places, the Yule log is placed in the fireplace on Christmas Eve, and the next morning there is a Christmas tree!) Today's Yule log tradition comes to us from Scandinavia , where the pagan sex-and-fertility god, Jule, was honored in a twelve-day celebration in December. A large, single log was kept with a fire against it for twelve days, and each day for twelve days a different sacrifice was offered. The period now counted as the twelve days between Christmas and Epiphany was originally the twelve days of daily sacrifices offered to the Yule log. (What, then, are we really doing when we send "Yuletide greetings"? Are we really honoring Christ by sending greetings in the name of a Scandinavian fertility god? These are the same customs being practiced today as in ancient paganism! Only the names have changed.) 9. Candles -- Candles were lit by the ancient Babylonians in honor of their god, and his altars had candles on them. And as is well known, candles are also a major part of the ritualism of Roman Catholicism, which adopted the custom from heathenism. Candles approached the Yule log in ritual importance. Like the Yule log, they had to be a gift, never a purchase, and were lighted and extinguished only by the head of the household. Such candles stood burning steadily in the middle of the table, never to be moved or snuffed, lest death follow. The Yule candle, wreathed in greenery, was to burn through Christmas night until the sun rose or the Christmas service began (Sulgrave Manor, "A Tudor Christmas," p. 9). Obviously, candles should have no part in Christian worship, for nowhere in the New Testament is their use sanctioned. 10. Giving of Gifts -- The tradition of exchanging gifts has nothing to do with a reenactment of the Magi giving gifts to Jesus, but has many superstitious, pagan origins instead. One prominent tradition was the Roman custom of exchanging food, trinkets, candles, or statutes of gods during the mid-winter Kalends (the first day of the month in the ancient Roman calendar). This custom was transferred to December 25th by the Roman Church in keeping with the Saturnalian festival and in celebration of the benevolent St. Nicholas. [Is it not the height of ridiculousness to claim that giving one another presents properly celebrates Jesus' "birthday" (not that there is anything necessarily wrong in giving each other presents)? But what are we giving Him, if indeed we are specifically celebrating His incarnation?] 11. Christmas Goose -- The "Christmas goose" and "Christmas cakes" were both used in the worship of the Babylonian "messiah." The goose was considered to be sacred in many ancient lands, such as Rome , Asia Minor , India , and Chaldea . In Egypt , the goose was a symbol for a child, ready to die! In other words, a symbol of the pagan "messiah," ready to give his life (supposedly) for the world. This is obviously a satanic mockery of the truth. 12. Christmas Ham -- Hogs were slaughtered and the eating of the carcass was one of the central festivities of the Saturnalia. Each man would offer a pig as a sacrifice because superstition held that a boar had killed the sun deity Adonis. Hence, the tradition of the Christmas ham on Christmas Day and New Year's Day. 13. Christmas Stocking -- According to tradition, a poor widower of Myra , Turkey , had three daughters, for whom he could not provide a dowry. On Xmas-Eve, "Saint Nicholas" threw three bags of gold down the chimney, thereby saving the daughters from having to enter into prostitution. One bag rolled into a shoe, and the others fell into some stockings that had been hung to dry by the fire. Hence, the beginning of the tradition of the "Christmas stocking" or "boot." 14. Christmas Cards -- The first British Xmas card can be dated back to 1843. The first cards featured pictures of dead birds! Evidently, the popularity of hunting robin and wren on Christmas Day made the dead bird image an appropriate one for "holiday" cards. Often the text of the cards would also have a morbid tone. Later, the cards displayed dancing insects, playful children, pink-cheeked young women, and festively decorated Christmas trees. The first actual Xmas cards were really Valentine's Day cards (with different messages) sent in December. Mass production of Xmas cards in the United States can be traced back to 1875. Initially, the manufacturers thought of Xmas cards as a sideline to their already successful business in playing cards. But the "tradition" of sending cards soon caught on, leading to a very profitable business by itself. 15. Christmas Carols -- What do you suppose the reaction would be by a church's leaders if its Pastor were to propose that the following hymns be introduced into the church to commemorate the birth of Christ? After all, the tunes are quite lovely. style="font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Hymn #1 -- A hymn by a Unitarian (rejects the Trinity and full deity of Christ) minister that does not mention Jesus Christ and reflects the liberal social gospel the-ology of the 19th century. Hymn #2 -- A hymn by an American Episcopal priest, the fourth verse of which teaches Roman Catholic superstition about Christ coming to be born in people during the Advent season. Hymn #3 -- A song, the words by an Austrian Roman Catholic priest, the music by a Roman Catholic school teacher, containing the Roman Catholic superstition about halos emanating from holy people, with no gospel message. Perhaps you would expect the church's leaders to be very upset. It might surprise you to learn that they were upset when they suspected that the Pastor might somehow prevent them from singing them. You see, those three hymns were already in the church's hymnals! The Pastor did not have to introduce them. The three theologically incorrect "Christmas carols" referred to above are It Came Upon the Midnight Clear, O Little Town of Bethlehem , and Silent Night. (See the appendix for an evaluation of some of the most popular Xmas carols found in church hymnals today.) E. European Xmas Traditions -- In the early days of Christianity, as it moved north and west into Europe , many pagan celebrations were encountered. For example, in the late-6th century in England , the Angles and Saxons were found celebrating Yule. The Christian evangelists thought they would fail in any attempt to rival, suppress, or stamp out such long held customs, so they simply adopted popular dates for their own "special rituals and hallowed services." In other words, it was easier to establish a festival celebrating the birth of Christ if it conveniently coincided with an existing popular feast day. In this way, the pagan peoples (albeit potential converts to Christianity), could continue with their usual celebrations at this time of year, but the reason for the merrymaking could be redefined and attributed to Christ's birth rather than to any pagan rituals. As paganism eventually died out and Christianity became widespread, Christmas became increasingly more associated with its religious foundations than any others (Sulgrave Manor, "A Tudor Christmas," p. 2). It was left to the Puritans to denounce everything. For them, Christmas was rightfully part popish, part pagan, and was forbidden to be kept as a holiday or feast day. The attack began in 1644 when the Puritans controlled the Parliament; December 25th was changed to a Fast Day. By 1647, even the Fast Day was abolished as a relic of superstition, synonymous with the Church of Rome. No observation on December 25th was any longer permitted, but the day was to be observed as a normal market-day. Christmas was accurately depicted by such names as the Profane Man's Ranting Day, the Superstitious Man's Idol Day, the Papist's Massing Day, the Old Heathen's Feasting Day, the Multitude's Idle Day, and Satan-that Adversary's-Working Day. In those days, any Christmas celebrations would be broken up by troops, who would tear down decorations and arrest anyone holding a service. Some who celebrated it in Europe were also thrown into prison. Because of the riots that broke out following the banning of Christmas, the celebrations and revelry were restored in 1660 by King Charles II, a Catholic (Sulgrave Manor, "A Tudor Christmas," p. 3). F. American Xmas Traditions -- America 's settlers (the "founding fathers" of so-called "Protestant America") rightfully considered Christmas a "popish" holiday. In fact, it was only in the early 1800s that several founding members of the New York Historical Society "invented" Christmas. Before then, it was illegal in colonial Massachusetts to even take December 25th off work. Christmas was forbidden as "unseemly to ye spiritual welfare of ye community." (It was banned in Massachusetts in 1659, and this law remained on the books for 22 years. In Boston , public schools stayed open on December 25th until as late as 1870!) It wasn't until 1836 that any state declared Christmas a holiday ( Alabama ), and then there were no more state declarations until the Civil War. It was not until 1885 that all federal workers were given Christmas Day off. The so-called Xmas customs and traditions were later concocted more for commercial purposes than for religious. Quoting from a 12/23/83 USA TODAY article about Christmas: "A broad element of English Christianity still considered Christmas celebration a pagan blasphemy. The Puritans, Baptists, Quakers, Presbyterians, Calvinists and other denominations brought this opposition to early New England and strong opposition to the holiday lasted in America until the middle of the 18th century." Henry Ward Beecher, a Congregationalist, wrote in 1874 of his New England boyhood: "To me Christmas is a foreign day, and I shall die so. When I was a boy I wondered what Christmas was. I knew there was such a time, because we had an Episcopal church in our town, and I saw them dressing it with evergreens, and wondered what they were taking the woods in the church for; but I got no satisfactory explanation. A little later I understood it was a Romish institution, kept by the Romish Church." II. Scriptural Support Against Celebrating Christmas -- Unacceptable Worship A. 2 Chron. 33:15-17 -- The Israelites had kept the old pagan form (the high places of Baal), but had merely introduced the worship of God into that form -- a refusal to let go of pagan worship forms (i.e., God was to be worshiped in the Temple, not on the high places). This was unacceptable worship because the right object of worship was mixed with wrong forms of worship; i.e., the mixing of godly worship with ungodly form. [Likewise, is not the celebration of Christmas the taking of a celebration established by pagans and for pagans, and then introducing the worship of Christ into that pagan form?] B. Deut. 12:29 -32 -- God warned His people Israel to destroy all vestiges of pagan worship that they found in the "Promised Land." Not only did God want to prevent His people from being enticed to worship false gods, but He specifically revealed that He did not want His people to worship Him in the same manner in which the heathen worshiped their gods. We know, therefore, that our Lord is displeased by practices which profess to honor Him, but which are copied from the tradition of false religions. The command here was to worship God only in His way, i.e., do only what God commands -- not adding to God's commands nor taking away from them. [Is not "putting Christ back into Christmas," worshiping "the Lord your God their way"? Is there any command in the Bible to give special reverence to the Scriptural account of Christ's birth more so than to any other Scripture, let alone even a suggestion to celebrate or commemorate His birth in any way whatsoever? God never intended for His people to be imitators of the pagan customs of the world, but has called us to be separate and set apart.] C. Lev. 10:1,2 -- Nadab and Abihu offered strange fire to the Lord. [Is not the celebration of Christmas, with all its pagan symbols and forms, a "strange fire" unto the Lord, and is not this form of worship contrary to what God commands?] D. 1 Sam. 15:1-3, 7-9, 21-23 -- Saul disobeyed God's prophet in order to worship God in his way. [Is not the celebration of Christmas one of man's ways of worshiping Christ? There is certainly no Biblical command to offer worship in this manner.] E. 2 Sam. 6:2-7 -- David attempts to transport the ark on a "new cart" instead of using the rings and poles as the Law required (Exo. 25:12-15). Additionally, the "transporters" of the ark were not even authorized to carry it (1 Chron. 15:2, 13-15); i.e., the ark was not only transported in the wrong way, but was transported by the wrong people! [Is not the celebration of Christmas the wrong way (pagan forms and tradition) with the wrong people (the heathen of the world join right in with the professing Christians)?] F. 1 Ki. 12:26 -33 -- In order to unify the northern ten tribes of Israel , ungodly King Jeroboam set up pagan idols, not in place of God, but as new focal points for directing worship to God. He even instituted a new festival on a new day; i.e., a new religious holiday of his own choosing. Even though the true God of Israel was still to be the object of worship in the new religious holiday, both the holiday and the worship were not authorized by God nor accepted by Him (1 Ki. 13:1-3; 15:29,30). Why? Because the concocted mixture of error with truth constituted false religion! [Is not the celebration of Christmas a religious holiday of man's own choosing, replete with pagan symbols and forms, all under the guise (by sincere Christians at least) of worshiping the one true God and Savior? But does not this worship form and system still constitute false religion, and thereby, make it unacceptable to God? And besides, where in the Bible do Christians have the right to add a new holy day to the so-called Christian calendar, any more than King Jeroboam had the right to add a new holy day to God's theocratic calendar?] G. 1 Cor. 8:4-13; Rom. 14:1-13; 1 Cor. 10:14,18-21 -- These passages concerning Christian liberty are discussed in more detail under Roman numeral IV. [Christian liberty can best be defined Biblically as "the freedom to engage in practices not prohibited by the Scriptures or denying oneself what is permitted (i.e., a moral choice of selfdiscipline) in order to be a more effective witness for God." So the question must first be answered, "Is Christmas permitted?"] Briefly, some claim that Paul is teaching that the participation in pagan forms condemns no one, and therefore, participation in Christmas and its forms, even though arising out of pagan idolatry, is inconsequential. However, Paul nowhere approves participation in acts of idolatry, of which the participation in the pagan forms of Christmas comes dangerously close to doing. Instead, Paul is speaking of the liberty to continue in Jewish days of worship/festival that had been previously ordained under the Jewish law. There is certainly no liberty to bring outside pagan forms into the church's worship services. Likewise, there is no liberty to Christianize Babylonian/Roman pagan holy days as special days. Christians in the first century churches had the liberty to observe Old Testament holy days and feasts (days that had previously been revealed by God) if they were so immature as to do so. The weaker brother, Paul wrote, was at that time not to be censured for continuing to attach some importance to the Old Testament holy days, as a clear knowledge of their abolition in Christ was not yet given to him (the weaker brother). But to observe a pagan holy day is something this passage does not sanction. They certainly did not have the liberty to regard Babylonian/Roman pagan holy days (days that were invented by the devil) as special days. Again, that would have been idolatry, worldliness, and perhaps even a form of Satan worship on their part. Therefore, how can the observance of Christmas Day, or any other Babylonian/Roman Catholic holy day, be a matter of Christian liberty? Yet when some of us refuse to regard the pagan holy days as special days, we are the ones often referred to as the "weaker brother" in this matter! Are we opposed to such days because we are "weak in faith"? Faith would be defined as believing what the Word of God says about a matter and acting upon it. It was by faith that we stopped regarding pagan holy days as special days. Would we be more mature Christians if we would start regarding such days again? It would certainly be much easier on us and our families. III. Christmas and Violation of the Ten Commandments (reverse order) A. Do Not Covet -- Children learn to covet the gifts of others, to drool over the Christmas catalog, to drag their parents endlessly through toy stores, all in the name of "the Christmas spirit." B. Do Not Bear False Witness -- "Jesus is the reason for the season!" is the Christian battle cry to "put Christ back in Christmas," when in actuality, there is not only no Biblical warrant for Christmas, but its roots are in pagan worship systems. Nevertheless, professing Christians lie to their children about Santa Claus, the supernatural, sorcerous false "god" of Christmas, whose "gospel" is one of works salvation along with unconditional acceptance and rewards. Parents lie to their children for years about the god-like character of Santa Claus, in effect asking them to trust in a false god and a lie, and then don't understand why later in life their children won't believe and trust in the true God, Jesus Christ. C. Do Not Steal -- Christmas spending patterns could never stand the test of Biblical stewardship; i.e., Christians, in celebrating Christmas, "steal" the Lord's resources by ignoring their proper use; lavishly spend these resources on worthless and useless trinkets (in many cases); and withhold resources from those in need, while at the same time claiming to never have enough money to buy good Christian books, pay for home schooling, or buy Bible helps for their children. (Christians could also be helping the spiritually needy by buying and giving them tracts, books, etc.) We "steal" from our families what they need and what we owe them in order to buy gifts for those who don't need them. D. Do Not Commit Adultery -- At this "special" time of the year, lustful thoughts are actually encouraged; e.g., teens are allowed to go to parties and stay out later, thereby having temptations put in front of them that otherwise wouldn't be there. Christmas parties for adults also encourage evil thoughts through the use of the mistletoe, etc. (According to Matt. 5, such thoughts constitute adultery. At the very least, spiritual adultery is encouraged by the "season.") E. Do Not Murder -- Envy and hate of my brother (which, according to Matt. 5, is equal to murder) because he has more than me or because he receives a larger Christmas bonus than me, is encouraged at Christmas time. We also tend to spiritually sacrifice our children to the "god of Christmas" via greed, selfishness, etc. F. Honor Father & Mother -- Christmas gift-giving is not an honor to parents; the term "exchanging" gifts (i.e., giving in expectation of a return) is a dead give-away of the mockery associated with this tradition. G. Remember the Sabbath & Keep It Holy -- Although we recognize that the Lord's Day is not the "Christian Sabbath," clearly the Lord's Day is to be kept for worship and observed as such. Yet when Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, or the day after Christ-mas falls on a Sunday, most churches adjust the Lord's Day to accommodate Christmas, usually by cancelling the regularly scheduled Sunday evening service. Most of its members are too busy or too tired to attend services anyway. H. Do Not Take the Lord's Name in Vain -- "Christ" and "mass" are two words that are totally opposite from one another, and to connect the two is to blaspheme the name of Christ. By taking a pagan celebration, "Christianizing" it, and calling it a celebration of the birth of Christ, is most certainly taking the Lord's name in vain. (A good example of the willingness of the professing church to profane the name of the Lord would be the title of a popular children's Christmas concert production -- The Divine Ornament. Imagine, identifying our Lord with a pagan ornament to hang on a pagan tree! What insult! What blasphemy!) In addition, some professing Christians use religion ("Christ's birthday") as a cloak to cover the evils of covetousness, idolatry, greed, immorality, etc. -- all excuses to give vent to evil lusts. I. Do Not Make Yourself Any Carved Image -- Nativity scenes, "pictures" of Christ, Christmas cards with "pictures" of Jesus, etc., all violate this command. God has given us His Word, not images, to teach us about Christ (1 Pe. 1:23 ; Dt. 4:12 , 15-19). J. Have No Other gods Before Me -- The "god of Christmas" is idolatrous! Looking to the Christmas season for happiness, joy, and fulfillment, rather than through a pure, personal, and Biblical relationship with Jesus Christ, is idolatry. IV. Is a Christian's Decision to Celebrate Christmas a Part of Christian Liberty? A. Romans 14:1-13 -- This passage is speaking of Jews who were observing the Old Testament Jewish holy days/festivals and dietary laws even though they were now believers in Christ; but they were also judging their Gentile brothers-in-the-Lord who did not observe the Jewish customs. Likewise, the Gentile Christians were judging their Jewish brothers who were seemingly caught-up in ceremonial law. Paul was thusly saying, "To you Gentile Christians -- leave the Jewish Christians alone, because they are not violating any Scriptural commands by their actions (i.e.,it's a "disputable" matter [doubtful or gray area] and not a moral issue). To you Jewish Christians -- it's okay for you to observe the Jewish festivals and dietary laws because they were given by God in the Old Testament, and thereby, are considered to be previously approved worship forms, but don't judge your Gentile brothers because there is no Biblical command for either of you to continue to observe these things." (Actually, it wasn't "okay" [see IV.C. below], but Paul allowed it as an act of an immature/weaker brother [see II.G. above].) If a moral issue is involved (i.e., a practice that is covered in Scripture), then this passage and its application to Christian liberty (i.e., the freedom to engage in practices not prohibited by Scripture) would obviously not apply. And as brought out earlier in this report, the celebration of Christmas appears to be such a moral issue, because its celebration is not only not from God, but is from ancient paganism itself! B. 1 Corinthians 8:4-13 -- The Gentile Christians, who had been raised in an idolatrous system, were having a problem with the their Jewish brothers who were eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols. (Apparently, this was the only "healthy" meat available.) Similar to the Romans 14 passage above, Paul says that eating meat that had been sacrificed to idols is not a moral issue, and thereby, is not prohibited. However, Paul does not say that it is okay to go into the pagan temple itself; in fact, in other passages (1 Cor 10:14 , 18-21), Paul specifically prohibits getting involved with the pagan feasts. In other words, it's not a moral issue to partake in the byproducts of a pagan religious system (note, however, that there is no indication here that the Jewish Christians were using the "idol meat" as part of their worship), but it is not okay to partake in the religious system itself (because the corrupt character of the participants would be harmful for believers). Rather, we must be separate from the worldly system (2 Cor 6:14 -7:1). Therefore, when items (byproducts) associated with a pagan religious system not only develop religious associations of their own, but have been integrated into what would otherwise be true Christian worship (as the celebration of Christmas has clearly become in our culture), then we should pull away from them so that there is no confusion over our allegiances. C. Galatians 4:9-10; Colossians 2:16 -17 -- Both these passages of Scripture refer to the Jewish holy days under Old Testament law. If Christians were not even to observe the Old Testament holy days -- days which did have divine sanction, for a time -- they certainly don't have the liberty to observe pagan holy days! D. James 4:11 -- James is saying that Christians may only judge a brother on matters determined in God's Word (i.e., moral issues). If a matter is not covered in the Word, then these are matters of Christian liberty (á la Rom. 14:1- 13 and 1 Cor 8:4-13), and he who judges in these areas of Christian liberty is, in effect, judging and condemning the Word of God as being an imperfect standard to which the judge, thereby, refuses to submit. On the other hand, since we have clear Scriptural precept that condemns the things that go on around December 25th in the name of Christ, the celebration of Christmas does not appear to be a matter of liberty, but one of moral conduct. V. The Right Response A. Quench Not the Holy Spirit (1 Thes 5:19 -22) -- Test all things against the Scripture and line-up beliefs and actions with what is true (i.e., do not treat with contempt the Word of God). If one is convinced that to celebrate Christmas is sin, then he and his family must not compromise with the world or the church by participating in any Christmas celebrations (Rom. 14:23). B. Avoid Traps of the Devil: 1. Lack of Zeal -- One who never considers why he does certain things, but he just does them because he always has or because his parents always have; one who acts on emotions rather than on facts. 2. Lack of Truth -- One who does things for good reasons and right motives (i.e., plenty of zeal), but not in truth. C. Realize that Christians Celebrating Christmas as the Day of Christ's Birth Makes No More Sense than Adding Any of the Following Days as Special Days of Christian Celebration: -- (Remember, the Bible's focus on the birth of Christ is for the sole purpose of documenting his virgin birth, his incarnation, and the fulfillment of His prophetic Messiahship. Like the tongue-in-cheek suggestions below, one must also remember that there is no Biblical warrant, precedent, nor precept for the remembrance of the day of Christ's birth as a day of special religious celebration.) 1. Baptism Celebration -- Why not have three days of swimming parties in the summer in order to celebrate/symbolize Christ's three days in the grave? We could even pick a time based upon our speculation of when John the Baptist baptized Jesus! 2. Ascension Celebration -- Why not have one day set aside every year for hot-air balloon rides in order to celebrate Christ's ascension to heaven? 3. Miracle Celebration -- There is considerable Biblical focus on Jesus' miracles (even more than on his birth), so why not have one day set aside every year to celebrate the first of Christ's miracles? And since that was the turning of water into wine (Jn. 2), why not have "Christian" wine-tasting parties?! D. Avoid the Rationalizations that: 1. "Christmas Provides a Festive Time to Share the Gospel" -- One cannot take something condemned in God's Word and "use it" to spread the Gospel; neither will God bless it to spread His Word. Unacceptable worship and the "mixing-in" of unholy/pagan forms is surely not the normal means through which God blesses the faithful. Satan works to blend together his system with God's system, because when unacceptable worship (paganism) is blended with true worship (God's truth), true worship is destroyed. In fact, any time one mixes pagan ideas and practices with the pure religion of Christ, it is condemned in Scripture as the heinous sin of idolatry! God has always detested taking those things dedicated to idols and using them to worship Him. [As a matter of fact, this "special time of the year" is probably more a hindrance to the receptiveness of the gospel message than a help. Much of the celebration observed by our contemporary society deludes people into assuming that God is pleased, when in reality, He is offended by false religion, pseudo-worship, and alien philosophies. The ecumenical spirit and a counterfeit "love" under the guise of "peace and goodwill among men," more than likely dulls one's sensitivity to his desperate need to repent of sin and be reconciled to a holy God.] 2. "Christmas is Merely the Honoring of Christ's Birth" -- Someone says, "I know Christmas is of pagan origin, but I still think it's not wrong for a church to have a special time for honoring Christ's birth." But since when did Protestants believe that Christians have the right to add to the Bible? Is the church a legislative body? Are we to follow the Bible in our faith and practice, or the thinking of fallible men? If we have the right to add a special holy day to the Christian economy, then we can add 10,000 other things. Then we will be no better than the false cults and the Roman Catholics who follow heathen traditions! [Besides, celebrating Christ's birth is a form of worship. But since Christmas is a lie, those who celebrate it are not worshiping in "spirit and truth" (Jn. 4:24 ).] 3. "All I'm Doing is Putting Christ Back into Christmas" -- The modern conservative cry to put Christ back into Christmas is absurd. As detailed earlier in this report, Jesus Christ was never in Christmas. It's a lie to say He was. He has no part in a lie. When anyone takes the truth and mixes a lie with it, they no longer have the truth. They have changed the truth into a lie. Neither is it possible to take a lie and mix enough truth with it to change the lie into the truth. You still come out with a lie. One may say, "Well, I know it's not the truth, but I'll put Christ back in Christmas and glorify God in it then." No, you won't. Christ never was in Christmas. You cannot change a lie into the truth. It should in reality be called Baal-mass, Nimrod-mass, Tammuz-mass, Mithras-mass, or Mary-mass. Christ-mass is a lie. Why use a lie as a good time for a cardinal truth (the incarnation) of the Christian faith? 4. "I'm Using Christmas to Witness for Christ, Just Like the Apostle Paul Did" -- Some say that all they are doing is taking the "truth" from Christmas (i.e., the incarnation of Christ) and "cultivating" it as the Apostle Paul did (Acts 17/Mars Hill), taking the opportunity of the season to witness to a lost world. This would be fine if these Christians were actually doing only as Paul did. Paul, in addressing the Greek philosophers on Mars Hill, proclaimed to them that their "unknown god" to whom they had erected an altar, was none other than "the God who made the world and all the things therein." Paul was not intimidated by the pagan surroundings and symbolisms, nor did he berate the Greeks for their error, but merely showed them the truth of the gospel of Christ. But do Christians really use the "opportunity presented by the season" in the same way as Paul used the opportunity of the pagan altar? Do Christians personally stand in front of their hometown public displays of Xmas (Nativity scenes, etc.) and preach the gospel? To paraphrase Paul, do they say: "Men of Indianapolis, I see that in every way you are very religious; what you worship as something unknown, I am going to proclaim to you"? Do they come out of the public schools where they have just attended their children's Xmas programs and preach to the attendees about the true God who has been grossly misrepresented in the program they have just witnessed? Hardly. Even to most of those who understand the true origin of Xmas, this "unique time of year" means inviting unbelievers into their homes to gather around the Xmas tree, to enjoy the beauty of the wreaths, absorb the heat from the Yule log, etc., reasoning that they are only using the pagan forms and the pagan festival season as an opportunity to witness. If Paul meant this in Acts 17, he would have met the people in the Athenian temple or in his or their homes, gathering around their idols that he had Christianized and was now using as a part of his worship. Most of the people who decorate their homes and churches with Xmas trees, holly wreaths, Nativity scenes, etc., all supposedly to be used as "opportunities" via "Xmas coffees," neighborhood "grab bag" gift exchanges, Xmas concerts, etc., are thoroughly convinced that they're doing God a service. And since they are not involved in the crass secular "commercialization" that the world revels in, but have instead "put Christ back in Xmas" (so to speak), they reason that all is Biblical and pleasing to God. 5. "It Doesn't Mean Anything to Me" -- Many Christians who routinely make a habit of picking-and-choosing which Biblical commands they will or will not obey, have likewise carried this practice over into a justification for celebrating Christmas. They claim, "but the Christmas tree, mistletoe, Santa Claus, etc., don't mean anything pagan to me, so I'll exercise my Christian liberty and partake in all of it." Obviously, if one were to take such a cavalier approach to the physical world (i.e., "I can drink rat poison because I choose not to regard it as poison"), it would likely lead to a quick physical death. Why then do Christians think they can avoid spiritual harm by ignoring God's spiritual warnings? 6. "The 'Connection' Has Been Broken" -- There are those who clearly recognize the pagan nature of the various Christmas worship forms and practices. Nevertheless, many of these Christians claim that because of the long passage of time from their pagan inception to the present (6,000 years?), the "connection" to paganism has been sufficiently diminished to allow the adoption of these forms and practices into our Christian worship and celebration. While it may be true that most symbols have lost their original demonic meaning and significance in a modern society, it is strangely bizarre and ironic that Christendom seeks to commemorate Christ's birth with the faded symbols of Satan. And even though some of God's people may be naive and ignorant about the source of these things, surely God is not. Can such things please Him? And think about this -- if it were possible to "disconnect" current practices from their pagan/occultic roots, why does Scripture not provide us any guidelines as to: (a) how much time is necessary for the "neutralization"/disassociation process to occur; and (b) which of the hundreds of ancient pagan rites would then be acceptable for adaptation into Christian worship (since some are obviously much more pagan/occultic than others)? 7. "There Are Hundreds of Other Items of Daily Life that Have a Pagan Origin" -- It is said, "Such things as the wedding ring, certain clothing customs, the modern division of time into hours and minutes, the names of the days of the week, etc., all have pagan connections in their origins, so isn't it a contradiction on your part to say that their meanings have sufficiently changed while Christmas's meanings have not?" But we are not saying that their meanings have changed. The question is one of using things of pagan origin in our worship of Christ. So we would ask the question back, "Which of these pagan items do we focus on to celebrate the birth of Christ? Or which of these is 'Christianized' and brought into our weekly worship of, or our daily devotion to Christ, as you do with the pagan forms and traditions of Xmas?" The origin and meaning of a custom, tradition, or form does not take on significance unless it is somehow specifically incorporated into, or lined up with, our worship. As we have already detailed in the section on Christian liberty (Section IV.B.), these rings, clothing customs, etc. would be merely the byproducts of paganism, not paganism itself, and they have developed no religious connotations or associations of their own, as have the Xmas customs and traditions. 8. "Baptism (and Circumcision) Have Pagan Origins and God Still Gave Their Use in Scripture, So What's Wrong With Using the Pagan Forms of Christmas?" -- This argument is frequently made by Pastors who say that to be consistent, those who would have us forbid the forms, symbols, and traditions of Christmas should also be calling for us to abandon believer's baptism; i.e., shouldn't the would-be banners of Christmas be saying, "Since the ancient mystery religions practiced forms of baptism, therefore baptism is a pagan custom and should be outlawed for the believer in Christ"? This is a strange argument for anyone to make, particularly a theologian (and, in our opinion, reveals a low view of Scriptural admonitions). If baptism were absent from the Bible, as using pagan forms and traditions to celebrate or commemorate Christ's birthday are totally absent, there would then be no Biblical justification for baptism. But God has not commanded us to celebrate or commemorate Christ's birth in any way. He has commanded us to baptize (Matt. 28:19). E. Abstain From the Observance of Christmas -- What, then, ought to be the Christian's response to this and other pagan and Roman inventions? It cannot be denied that they are pagan pure and simple, from beginning to end. God gives us specific instructions in His Holy Word: Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen ... (Jer. 10:2). These words are perfectly clear. What rational options does a Bible believing Christian have? VI. Conclusion The very popularity of Christmas should cause the Christian to question it. Anyone and everyone can celebrate Christmas without question -- outright pagans, nominal Christians, and even Buddhists and Hindus. If, in reality, December 25th were a date set by God to remember the birth of Jesus, there is no doubt that the world would have nothing to do with it. After all, God has commanded one day in seven -- the Lord's Day -- to worship Him. Does the world observe it? Of course not. As expected, the world loves Christmas, but hates the Lord Jesus Christ (Jn. 15:18 , 23-25). It shuns anything pertaining to true religion. Shouldn't the Christian be just a little suspicious of a celebration in which the whole sinful world can join without qualms? One way to test the Scripturalness of our practices is to reflect on what we would expect missionaries to teach new converts in a foreign culture. We assume that they would use the Bible as their guide book. If they could start new local churches without importing American culture encumbered with Roman Catholicism, liberal Protestantism, and crass commercialism, wouldn't it be wonderful? Missionaries who have urged new converts to forsake all pagan superstitious relics have later been questioned about the apparent inconsistency of their own American Christmas customs. Nationals perceived them as idolatrous even though the missionaries were oblivious to that possibility! When Christmas is exposed for what it really is, this angers people. It angers Protestant people! And there is reason why it does so. When the pagan celebration of Christmas is rooted up, and rejected, then what has become a Protestant tradition is, in effect, being rejected! And that is why people become angry. It began as a Roman Catholic holy day, and then it became a Protestant holy day. And if anyone dares show it up for what it really is, they face the wrath of the Protestant religious machine. And these days, that can be very ugly. Christmas is a thoroughly pagan holiday -- in its origin, in its trappings, and in all its traditions. Perhaps we should contemplate the words of Charles Haddon Spurgeon, delivered in a Lord's Day sermon on December 24, 1871 : "We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Saviour; and consequently, its observance is a superstition, because [it's] not of divine authority. Superstition has fixed most positively the day of our Saviour's birth, although there is no possibility of discovering when it occurred. ... "It was not till the middle of the third century that any part of the church celebrated the nativity of our Lord; and it was not till very long after the Western church had set the example, that the Eastern adopted it. Because the day is not known, therefore superstition has fixed it; ... Where is the method in the madness of the superstitious? Probably the fact is that the holy days were arranged to fit in with the heathen festivals. ... We venture to assert that if there be any day in the year of which we may be pretty sure that it was not the day on which the Saviour was born, it is the twenty-fifth of December. ... regarding not the day, let us, nevertheless, give God thanks for the gift of His dear Son." And from Dr. H.A. Ironside's Lectures on the Book of Revelation (1920: p. 301): "It is a lamentable fact that style="font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Babylon 's principles and practices are rapidly but surely pervading the churches that escaped from style="font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Rome at the time of the Reformation. We may see evidences of it in the wide use of high-sounding ecclesiastical titles, once unknown in the reformed churches, in the revival of holy days and church feasts such as Lent, Good Friday, Easter, and Christ's Mass, or, as it is generally written, Christmas. ... some of these festivals ... when they are turned into church festivals, they certainly come under the condemnation of Galatians 4:9-11, where the Holy Spirit warns against the observance of days and months and times and seasons. All of them, and many more that might be added, are Babylonish in their origin, and were at one time linked with the Ashtoreth and Tammuz mystery-worship. It is through Rome that they have come down to us; and we do well to remember that Babylon is a mother, with daughters who are likely to partake of their mother's characteristics ..." And, finally, from Alexander Hislop's 1916 classic, The Two Babylons: Or the Papal Worship: "Upright men strove to stem the tide, but in spite of all their efforts, the apostasy went on, till the Church, with the exception of a small remnant, was submerged under Pagan superstition. That Christmas is a Pagan festival is beyond all doubt. The time of the year and the ceremonies with which it is still celebrated, prove its origin." We can summarize by saying that nowhere in Scripture are we commanded to commemorate the birth of our Lord, and God the Father evidently deemed it unwise to make the date known. Hence, it will always remain unknown and is not to be ceremoniously remembered and celebrated. (In fact, God has warned us about getting entangled with any special days [Gal. 4:10 ]). Notice though, that we are commanded to remember Him in His death (but no special day was specified for this either): "Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; this DO in remembrance of Me" (Luke 22:18,19; 1 Cor. 11:23-26). To commemorate His death is Scriptural. Any day of the year will do. To commemorate His birth is non-Scriptural, even extra-Scriptural (Deut. 4:2; 12:32 ; Prov. 30:6; Rev. 22:19), whether one chooses December 25th or any other day. If God had desired us to remember Christ's birthday, He could have left us the precise date. But if He had, He would have vindicated every astrologer in the past 2,000 years. In occult circles, the anniversary of a person's birth is the most important metaphysical day of the year. The Bible recognizes no such significance. It is intriguing that there are only two birthday celebrations recorded in the entire Bible and they were both those of ungodly kings -- and both resulted in an execution (Gen. 40:16-22 and Matt. 14:6-10/Mark 6:21-27)! The Apostle Paul says: "But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross [not the manger] of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world" (Gal. 6:14 ). By itself, we find no salvation in the birth of the Lord Jesus, for salvation was only made possible through His death (i.e., His shed blood) and resurrection. Our focus should be on the cross and our ascended Savior, not in a cradle. Those who love Jesus should certainly rejoice that He was born and lived amongst us as a man. But if we truly want to glorify Him and bear testimony of who He is, we must stop marrying that blessed gift with the debauchery of paganism. If we want to honor His birth, let it be done as He would have done it: year-round unselfishly serving our fellow man as an unending act of love for our God. Let us put away all of the mixture of pagan customs and take up His mantle and His pure worship, and show the confused world that there is a difference. style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">BIBLIOGRAPHY/SOURCES 1. Assemblies of Yahweh. The Case Against Christmas. Sacred Name Broadcaster, Bethel , PA ,23pp. 2. Becker, R.F. The Truth About Christmas. Chapel Library, Venice , FL , 36 pp. 3. Blanton, Raymond. The Christmas Lie. Highways & Hedges Tracts, Liberty , SC , 13 pp. 4. Buday, George. The History of the Christmas Card. Putman Pub., New York , 1954, 304pp. 5. Dager, Albert James. "The Origins of Christmas Traditions," Media Spotlight Special Report Redmond , WA , 1985, 2 pp. 6. Dickey, D.J. & Shetler, Earl. "Should A Christian Celebrate Christmas?" Grace Reformed Baptist Church, Vernonia , OR , 10/89: three-part sermon series -- each on a 90-minute audio cassette tape. 7. Dossey, Donald. Holiday Folklore, Phobias and Fun: Mythical Origins, Scientific Treatments & Superstitious "Cures." Outcomes Unltd. Press, Asheville , NC , 1995 (paper ed.), 232pp. 8. Elwell, Walter A. (Ed.). Evangelical Dictionary of Theology. Baker Book House, Grand Rapids , MI , 1984, pp. 218-221. 9. Halff, Charles. The Truth About Christmas. The Christian-Jew Foundation, San Antonio , TX , 13 pp. 10. Halff, Charles. "Is Christmas a Jewish Holiday ?" Message Of The Christian Jew. November-December 1993, pp. cover, 1,2 & 7. 11. Helgerson, John C. Considering the Christmas Issue. The Church of the Open Bible, Burlington , MA , 12/31/90 , 12 pp. 12. Hislop, Alexander. The Two Babylons: Or The Papal Worship. Loizeaux Bros., Neptune , NJ , 1959:Second Edition, 330 pp. 13. Kohler, John. Our Baptist Heritage. Heritage Baptist Church , Salem , IN , Vol. 2, No. 3, 11/92, 8 pp. 14. McCurry, Robert. The God Man Has Made. Heritage Press, Sharpsburg , GA , 8pp. 15. Pink, A.W. Xmas . Chapel Library, Venice , FL , 6 pp. 16. Schneider, Michael. Is Christmas Christian? Chapel Library, Venice , FL , 15 pp. 17. Spurlin, Ed. Where Is The Christ In Christmas. Voice in the Wilderness, Milford , NH , 11/92, 8pp. 18. Spurgeon, C.H. "Joy Born At Bethlehem ," A Sermon: Delivered on Lord's Day Morning, December 24th, 1871 . Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, pp. 697-698. 19. Unknown. My Lord Has Not Told Me To Do It: The Christian and "Christmas. " Chapel Library, Venice , FL , 4 pp. 20. Unknown. 10 Reasons Why Christmas Is Unscriptural. Chapel Library, Venice , FL , 8 pp. 21. (Vine, W.E.), Gospel Tract Publications. The Collected Writings of W.E. Vine, Volume 5. Glasgow , Scotland , 1986, pp. 436-439. 22. Willcock, Shaun. The Pagan Festivals of Christmas and Easter. Bible Based Ministries, Pietermaritzburg , South Africa , 1992, 76 pp. 23. Wilson, Greg. Let's Keep Christ Out of Xmas. Landmark Independent Baptist Church, Homestead, FL, 4 pp. style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Biblical Discernment Ministries style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">- Revised 1/97 ________________________________________________ style="font-size: 24pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Should A Christian Celebrate Christmas? style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">Bible style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";"> style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";">References style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS";"> I. C. 3. 1 Th 1:8-10; 5:22 - The Lord's message rang out from you not only in Macedonia and Achaia-your faith in God has become known everywhere. Therefore, we do not need to say any-thing about it, for they themselves report what kind of reception you gave us. They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. … Avoid every kind of evil. I. D. 1. Heb 9:12, 24-26 - He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but He entered the Most Holy Place once for all by His own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. … For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; He entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. Nor did He enter heaven to offer Himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Heb 10:10,12,14 - And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. … But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God. … because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy. I. D. 2. Exo 20:4-5a; 32:1-5, 9-10a - "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of any-thing in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God …" When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt , we don't know what has happened to him." Aaron answered them, "Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me." So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt ." When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, "Tomorrow there will be a festival to the LORD." … "I have seen these people," the LORD said to Moses, "and they are a stiff-necked people. Now leave me alone so that my anger may burn against them and that I may destroy them." II. A. 2 Chr 33:15-17 - He got rid of the foreign gods and removed the image from the temple of the LORD, as well as all the altars he had built on the temple hill and in Jerusalem ; and he threw them out of the city. Then He restored the altar of the LORD and sacrificed fellowship offerings and thank offerings on it, and told Judah to serve the LORD, the God of Israel. The people, however, continued to sacrifice at the high places, but only to the LORD their God. II. B. Deu 12:29-32 - The LORD your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to in-vade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, say-ing, "How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same." You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods. See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it. II. C. Lev 10:1,2 - Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in them and added incense; and they offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, contrary to his command. So fire came out from the presence of the LORD and consumed them, and they died before the LORD. II. D. 1 Sam 15:1-3, 7-9, 21-23 - Samuel said to Saul, "I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over His people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt . Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" … Then Saul attacked the Amalekites all the way from Havilah to Shur, to the east of Egypt . He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword. But Saul and the army spared Agag and the best of the sheep and cattle,the fat calves and lambs-everything that was good. These they were unwilling to destroy com-pletely, but everything that was despised and weak they totally destroyed. … The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the LORD your God at Gilgal." But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifice as much as in obeying the voice of the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance like the evil of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, he has rejected you as king." II. E. 2 Sam 6:2-7 - He and all his men set out from Baalah of Judah to bring up from there the ark of God, which is called by the Name, the name of the LORD Almighty, who is enthroned between the cherubim that are on the ark. They set the ark of God on a new cart and brought it from the house of Abinadab, which was on the hill. Uzzah and Ahio, sons of Abinadab, were guiding the new cart with the ark of God on it, and Ahio was walking in front of it. David and the whole house of Israel were celebrating with all their might before the LORD, with songs and with harps, lyres, tambourines, sistrums and cymbals. When they came to the threshing floor of Nacon, Uzzah reached out and took hold of the ark of God, because the oxen stumbled. The Lord's anger burned against Uzzah because of his irreverent act; therefore God struck him down and he died there beside the ark of God. II. F. 1 Ki 12:26 -33 - Jeroboam thought to himself, "The kingdom will now likely revert to the house of David. If these people go up to offer sacrifices at the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem , they will again give their allegiance to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah . They will kill me and return to King Rehoboam." After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, "It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem . Here are your gods, O Israel , who brought you up out of Egypt ." One he set up in Bethel , and the other in Dan. And this thing became a sin;the people went even as far as Dan to worship the one there. Jeroboam built shrines on high places and appointed priests from all sorts of people, even though they were not Levites. He instituted a festival on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the festival held in Judah , and offered sacrifi-ces on the altar. This he did in Bethel , sacrificing to the calves he had made. And at Bethel he also installed priests at the high places he had made. On the fifteenth day of the eighth month, a month of his own choosing, he offered sacrifices on the altar he had built at Bethel . So he instituted the festival for the Israelites and went up to the altar to make offerings. III. (General Applications) 1 Sam 16:7 - But the LORD said to Samuel, "Do not consider his appearance or his height, for I have rejected him. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." 1 John 3:15 - Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him. Mat 15:19 - For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. IV. A. (& II. G.) Rom 14:1-13 - Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters [non-essential/nonmoral issues]. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that He might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.'" So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. IV. B. (& II. G.) 1 Cor 8:4-13 - So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but One. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. But not everyone knows this. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat such food they think of it as having been sacrificed to an idol, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled. But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do. Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall. 1 Cor 10:14, 18-21 - Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry. … Consider the people of Israel : Do not those who eat the sacrifices participate in the altar? Do I mean then that a sacrifice offered to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. One cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. 2 Cor 6:14 -7:1 - Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? What agreement is there between the temple of God style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Comic Sans MS"; color: blue;"> > and
> idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I
> will be their God, and they will be My people." "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Lord.
> Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you." "I will be a Father to you, and you will be My sons and daughters,
> says the Lord Almighty." Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that
> contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
IV. C. Gal 4:9,10 >- But now that you know God-or rather are known by God-how is it that you are turning back to those
> weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days
> and months and seasons and years!
Col 2:16,17 >- Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival,
> a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however,
> is found in Christ.
IV. D. James 4:11 >- Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks
> against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.
V. A. 1 Th 5:19-22 >- Do not put out [quench] the Spirit's fire; do not treat prophecies with contempt. Test everything.
> Hold on to the good. Avoid every kind of evil.
Rom 14:23 >- But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and
> everything that does not come from faith is sin.
V. D. 2. John 4:24 >- God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

 

 

 

 




NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Father Xmas

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Respectfully any man calling himself a minister and does not know that the current day designation for Dec 25th that we use as Xmas is pagan, is blind, needs to open up to the spirit of truth. Just picking any day out and making it whatever you want and calling it the word of God has always angered HIM.
 
If you want to have Xmas fine, just stop telling the sheep that this day is Holy and set aside by the almighty.
 
It is wrong to practice these heathen days in the name of Jesus. Dec 25 and Father Christmas has been celebrated many thousands of year before Jesus was crucified.
 
I would show you the documentation if I thought you were open to learn, but I fear that the hour is so late for most (if they haven't received the truth by now) that there is no opening for the understanding to come.
 
Xmas is the way of the heathen with it's evergreen trees etc......... and always will be.
 
LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN!
 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrdBDar28xk

NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM:: No Prophet

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 Stair is no Prophet of God! He seeks to lift himself up in the place of God just like his father Lucifer did.


Name me 1 thing, just one thing he has prophecied about and it has been right!! Oh wait, he isn't a prophecying prophet you say? You are right because the only word that even comes close to Prophet that describes Stair is PROFIT, because he loves to profit from your money, your children your wives and your labors!


Tim Butler
www.truthaboutstair.com

 




NAME:: David Mull

FROM:: Ex-Farm Member

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First and foremost, Stair is not a prophet of the most highest God Almighty.  In fact, Mr. Stair is a prophet of Satan or Lucifer.

 Believe me, I know as I have lived there for 5 long years dealing with his deception of lies around every corner.  His mesmerizing and subliminal brainwashing through the use of a 24-hour broadcast had me deceived, like you are now.

 I wouldn't expect you to understand though, as you spell and talk just like Stair!

 You may ask why I didn't leave sooner?  Like I told you earlier, I was deceived and brainwashed.  Like all the others.  And there are some whom remain brainwashed as God gives them their desires, to serve man and not God.

 God does not talk with me, that is where my faith and obedience comes in.  And God Almighty himself certainly does not talk to Stair as he is a con-artist.  Swindling you out of all your money and respect, just as Satan does.  Why would God tell Stair to spend $200,000.00 on a lawyer to get himself released from a charge of a Pedophile when he was absolutely guilty?  Like Pastor Rice once said, “if God wants to place me in jail, I would go like a sheep before the slaughter, I don’t need a lawyer”.   Why would God tell Stair to go to the horse races and lose thousands of dollars only to gamble away all your living.  Or why did God tell Stair to invest thousands of dollars of your money in the Stock Market, only to lose it all. 

 See what I am trying to get through to your thick skull?  I know it will take time as I myself was dumbed-down by Stair for over ten years.

 Stair walks around the compound so Pius looking all the while telling everyone, "God talks to me and me only, not you".  Do you think God would respect Stair saying: "God damn you" or maybe "go to hell", which Stair says to us all the time.

 I don’t think so.

 Stair commands your worship, which he says he turns around and gives it to God.   Stair makes you subservient to him, or else…

 I worship Stair no longer, only our Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus.

 My life has been blessed in many ways since God brought me out of Egypt (Stair’s compound).

 My health has returned from near death to 100% completely healthy.  And I praise God for his faithfulness to me.

  And now I can guarantee you Stair will go before the dining room during the next meal and tell everyone, for hours, how much he is being persecuted in the Spirit.  You made your bed Stair, and you will lie in it for eternity.

  Stair is a self-proclaimed wannabe prophet.  Stair, you are a Major liar.  That’s just the bottom line here.

 

 




NAME:: John Connour

FROM:: Lier Mike Rowland

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Your a lier. Let God be tru and everi man a lier.

 

 

 

 
On Sat, Dec 24, 2011 at 3:40 AM, Michael <mrowland55@embarqmail.com> wrote:
Hi John
 
My name is Michael Rowland and I lived with Ralph for 6 years while he was caught using the you teens sexually. During ralph's exposure in group meetings stair admitted to have used other men's wives and daughters totaling girls at one time, including his wife.
 
If you think God's men can do this and be Holy Prophets, then move in with him and find out the hard way what I am talking about.
 
I hope you do not have a beautiful women with you when you go, because she will be stalked at best.
 
I am a man of God and I do not fear judgment, I love judgment, judgment is what keeps my sane.
 
I do understand how you feel John and I hope you will reconsider the scriptures concerning the qualifications of a leader in the body.
 
Ralph is still doing the wildthing.
 
Respectfully Brother Mike

 

 




NAME:: John Connour <>

To:: Mike at Net Team

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Ive just been reeding over your website. the net team and I want to ask you buy what authoritie do you think yourselvs to reprov a Man of God? A prophet of the Most Hight God?

Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2 Tim 3:8

I challinge you to read that sir. You who have taken it upan yourselvs to stand against, Brother Stair, a major end times prophet, a major end time sig n.

Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
Rom 8:33

I dont have much educaton but I kno a true prophet of God when I see one. Hope you do to

 




NAME:: Bro Rowland

FROM:: Xmas Banned

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Christmas has it's roots in pagan party time festival and the Lord tells us this "Learn not the way of the heathen". An example is the evergreen tree, a symbol of fertility. Remember that Jesus birthday was kept secret so HE could stay alive and grow up.

The scripture says this "As often as you eat this bread and drink this cup of the New Testament of Jesus blood you do show the Lords DEATH till HE comes" NOT BIRTH TILL HE COMES.

The reversal or exchange of God's word for men's traditions is what we are discussing. Jesus said that the religious corporations made the WORD and INSTRUCTION of GOD to HIS people of no effect through their man made revisions of Holiday's. Jesus said that the people at the local assembly, were being led by blind guides and dumb dogs, with both falling into the ditch.

Bottom line Jesus said, Don't call me LORD LORD and then go against what I told you. Why are people calling HIM Lord and not doing the things that HE says?

People say Jesus wants us to love and show love so this is why they feel it is Okay to take any day out, set it aside for the purpose of loving. Love can never lie to children telling them Santa left some presents after sliding down the chimney. Love will never yield to falsehood.

That is hate, not LOVE.

God is Love and HE does not change. In HIM is no darkness.

 

Why Christmas was Banned

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZAL80TMLaE

 




NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Christmas

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hello Net Team

Here is a short documentary of where the date Dec 25th actually came from. Of course the Bible has nothing on this date, but people around the world keep this day and the day means something different to various groups.

In the USA the mainstream religious faction, such as the TBN, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson followers beleive they can put Christ into anything they want to including Halloween.

In fact the American version of Christainity is the same as the Satanic Bible  "DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW"

In other words American's do what they want, when they want and observe celebrations of their chosing regardless if God has validated these days or not.

The origin of Xmas comes from the worship of other gods and not THE ALMIGHTY GOD.

The Bible is clear on what God says about the worship of other God's. The American's who claim to love the God of the Bible simply do not care what HIS word says. Oh and go right on attacking those who do not keep this pagan day as if they were some kind of love less individual.

This American version of christainity claims that their kind of love will make everything just fine while they disobey God's words.

Rejections of the truth shows the strong delusion now in progress just as God said.

Claiming some sort of gushy love gives people the right to violate the law is insanity.

The ORIGIN of XMAS

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7606420729663402952



 

NAME:: Tammy

FROM:: Moved to Solitary

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Live5news.com

 

Report: Convicted SC child molester was mutilated

John New (Source: SC Department of Corrections)

COLUMBIA, S.C. (AP) - A report shows the word "pervert" was written on the forehead of a convicted child molester whose mutilated body was found near a shower in a South Carolina prison.

The State newspaper reports Saturday that the mutilation of 49-year-old Ricky Cooper included pens and safety pins stuck in his eyes, ears and nose, and swastikas carved and written on his face.

The newspaper obtained the report after state corrections officials declined to describe the Nov. 26 crime. The report says prison officials checked on Cooper after receiving an anonymous call. It doesn't say whether the mutilation occurred before or after he was strangled with string.

Cooper began serving a 20-year sentence in 2009.

His 32-year-old cellmate John New is charged with murder. He is serving a life sentence.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

 




NAME:: Dave Mull 

FROM:: I am not fighting

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 well you know Brother Steve,
 The bible says "vengeance is mine saith the Lord"
I am not fighting with Mr. stair, my sole purpose is to inform those uninformed.
Let God take care of stair, it is wrong for us to be fighting with evil men.
God created evil, and that is from the bible.


NAME:: Steve Jacobs

FROM:: Hypocrisies

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Where is the righteousness, where is the fight? That we once saw in
Bro. Mike Rowland when he first stood up to Ralph Gordon Stair and
 brought to light his crimes and hypocrisies before the world and put
him in a prison cell where he belongs??

 Where is that righteousness we first saw in you?

Seems like we don't hear much from Mike these days....

It was LC Wilder who coined the term "Right in everything"

This was after / during one of stair's dining hall sessions that went
on for hours. Wilder turned to a Brother and said, "You know, he's
 right in everything." (referring to stair.)

 Bro. Wilder would later recant on that statement saying that he
 (Wilder) was not right to say that.

 It was one of the other stairites who picked up on the statement and
 took it further saying that stair is right "even when he's wrong"

NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Pope (Benedict)

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  Mr. Stair has prophesied "the next Pope (Benedict) will be in office only a short time before...  Well Mr. Stair, it's been well over four or five years now.  What is your definition of "short time"?  Perhaps 20 or 50 years?
 Mr. Stair is a wanna be Prophet, just like Michael Trevessor.  Only difference is Stair uses your offerings to buy his way out of jail.  Stair has stated he has used over 200,000.00 of YOUR hard earned money, to pay his lawyers.
 I remember Pastor Rice preaching against Stair one morning at grace community.   Rice stated "if God wants to place me in jail, I would go and be placed in jail.  "I don't need to have a lawyer to represent me, "God will represent me".  WOW!!!  What a slam dunk to "Brother Stair"!!!  Yet Mr. Stair states "God told me to get this" CERTAIN "Lawyer".
 You are a liar, Mr. Stair!  The only thing God told you was to stop your raping young girls and repent of your sin and iniquity.
 As you tell everyone in the dining hall, Stair, "GO TO HELL", you go to Hell, STAIR!
 

NAME:: Florida

FROM:: No PROPHET

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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To the followers of the Overcomer Ministry,The Time is drawing nearer, when the deception you currently live under the" No PROPHET OF GOD " will be revealed.I pray that God Almighty will deliver you out of that place which is a BROADWAY of certain DESTRUCTION.If possible, get some  time alone  with God Almighty, and ask Him with a broken and contrite heart, to forgive you and reveal to you the TRUTH and nothing but THE TRUTH.FOCUS on knowing the WORD OF GOD,do like the Bereans did when the Apostle Paul preached to them, they did not accept him instantly, they read the WORD OF GOD for themselves in Fear of being mislead.Paul And the other Apostles did not go around preaching acceptance of themselves, but acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour,THEY DID NOT PREACH "ACCEPT US AND RECIEVE OUR REWARDS" THEY PREACHED " ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST.there is NO OTHER WAY
John 3:36 HE THAT BELIEVETH IN THE SON HATH EVERLASTING LIFE:AND HE THAT BELIEVETH NOT THE SON SHALL NOT SEE LIFE;BUT THE WRATH OF GOD ABIDETH ON HIM.
Rom 6:23 FOR THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH;BUT THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.
Mr Stair makes it seem as if he is the only true way to Christ, that is total garbage. God is working through different people in different places, He certainly is not working through Mr stair.
May the Lord Jesus Christ open the eyes of the decieved to the TRUTH... Amen



NAME:: Odel

FROM:: Michigan

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

What time has shown, is that G-d does not lie, let every man be a liar...

I heard with my own 2 ears about Jesus returning at 2000, getting off the radio(stair), ect...

Also about the ship fury, and how Stair was going to 'beat the system' and broadcast through the tribulation through ship fury, ect...

Also going to be martyred before the pope, prior to the year 2000, ect...

Also his daughter would not make it to the age of accountability (12 or 13?)...

These things has passed, and every man and woman must decide who they are going to serve, G-d or man, S-irit or soul...

Stair's influence is comparitive to the toronto blessing, or the spiritualism / soulish-ism within the slacking churches, yet stair has brought it to a deeper level, upped the ante, made it more 'hard core', yet in the end, what does it profit a man.....

Stair days are numbered, For the reasons that G-d has, stair will remain, speculation is that there are a few more people that needs to be shaken and to make a decision with a clear mind (in tstairs sphere of influence, farm/satellite communes, ect...), and once that is complete, 'stairs' ministry will be casted down and overcomed by the blood of the lamb, and the word of the testamony of those martyrs.

Stairs sins are great, some forgiven, what about those that are against the S-irit?

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

some sins are not forgiven, Still those believe stair is a prophet, a holy man of god, yet still a man, and still under the penalty of sin, although ralphic claims he knows G-d better than any one else, and 'loves' G-d better than any one else....

Yet, if you love G-d, you will keep His comandments... How great will the fall of stair is going to be when it is finally over...

Better a millstone around stairs neck...
as well as stair making people twice as bad as himself in stairs own spiritual wickedness...

Woe unto Stair, for the darkness is falling...

Woe unto Stair, death will elude him for aseason, then stair will be casted out with the dogs, liars, whoremaongers, outside the city gates...

Woe unto Stair, says he knows G-d, yet attempts to tempt the mercy of G-d,

Be not afraid, stair has prophecied in the name of the L-rd, and they have NOT come to past.

Be not afraid of this man, who is blinded in his own deceit

Be not afraid, Stair will soon answer to G-d and have to give an account...

Many people in sodom and gommorah will have a better account to give before the Almighty than what Stair will have to account for,

Woe unto you Stair, a hireling, wolf in sheeps clothing, scatters the sheep... You will be delivered and devoured by your sinful, lusts and be entirely consumed...

A poor wretched soul, What forgiveness can be found, Once Stair enteres into eternity, it is too late...

Just like Lucifer/Satan, Stair will bring many people with him in his wake...

Time is short for Stair, I speculate that a year, maybe 2 at the most, we will witness the collapse of stair's empire he has built from preying on others fears, hopes, and sincereity.

By the way, all you pro-stairites, unless you have lived at the hotel in walterboro or at the canadys farm, you only know half of the picture. I stayed at the farm for a while in 1995 in canadys.. Go and make a pilgrimage there and find out for yourself, If the S-irit of G-d is within you, you will be pushed away from there, otherwise you will be snared. If you are aware of that, why even tempt G-d in the first place by going there...

The boat is sinking, Stair is grabbing at the straw man, grabbing at anything to save face... Time will complete what has alredy been starting..

I believe this has been alearning experience for those, to prepare them for the tribulation(s) ahead. When the one world g0v goes into effect, I believe this training 'exercise' with stair, will enable and strenghen those to preservere through those dark times...


my 2 cents worth

NAME:: Florida

FROM::

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Stairs other prophecy to fail is ,where he will be summoned to appear before the pope of Rome to be persecuted. His followers actually believe that will happen.


NAME:: Steve

FROM:: "right in everything"

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Hey Dave I thought mr. stair was "right in everything"


he sure seems to be wrong in a lot for someone who is "right in everything"



NAME:: Noel

FROM:: West coast

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 I hope at least one of Stair's members read this post, and realize that this man (Stair) record on prophesying events that come to past is TOTAL FAILURE. May the Lord Jesus Christ open the eyes of the blind at the overcomers ministry and lead them to TRUTH
The next false statement he made, which his followers have to look forward to now, is The POPE of Rome summoning Stair to his headquarters to persecute him. 

 Wake up Overcomers, fill your lamps with Jesus Christ as your only Saviour, you cannot be saved by accepting "The Prophet".
 

 It is WRITTEN, I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE; NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME. John 14:6
 

 Thank God for opening the eyes of former members of Stair to see the TRUTH, Grace and Mercy from our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ fell upon you, Praise God !!. 

 I pray that God Almighty bestow upon you all a persevering spirit to stand firm against this False Prophet, for his time of destruction approached. God bless and keep you Brothers and Sisters, by the Grace and Mercy of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Wicked Bastard, Stair

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  Let me give you another example of how wicked Mr. Stair is.  One morning for breakfast a certain sister made strips of beef which looked like bacon, and she spent two days preparing for it.  Well, sister Stair complained to Ralph about this and of course, we had another very long morning, and into the afternoon, of rebuke and shame.  The dear sister was in tears.
 Now, what is wrong with having strips of beef for breakfast? Everyone else who makes beef for breakfast doesn't get shamed.  If Teresa doesn't like fat on her beef, then go ahead and cut it off.  How hard is that?
 You are a wicked bastard, Stair.  The only ones going to Hell is you and your family and your hand picked few.
 Stay tuned as I have more to share with you.
 I hope I am helping those of you who are contemplating moving into the overcomer Hell compound.




NAME:: Dave Mull 

FROM:: 7 billion people

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Well Well, here we go again!  Another one of Mr. Stair's prophesy's has failed again.
 I remember on many occasions in the dining hall where Mr. Stair vehemently prophesied "the world population will never reach 7 billion people".  Now remember what I said to you in the past: "Whatever comes out of my mouth is thus saith the Lord" says Mr. Stair.
 I don't believe for one second God Almighty talks to Mr. Stair.
 Well, we are obviously well passed 7 billion people on this earth.
 I wonder how Mr. Stair is going to squirm out of this one?
Oh that's right, I forgot, Mr. Stair says he is not a prophesying prophet.
 I don't believe Mr. Stair is a prophet at all!  In fact, I know he is a greedy liar.
You know brother Mike, I had really hoped Mr. Stair would be right for a change.  Stair should stop running his mouth and stop deceiving the multitudes.
 I'm going to go on and believe Jesus and not Stair.



NAME:: Steve Jacobs (Canada)

FROM:: stair's dog

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 stair told the story once how his dog, I mean his god, told him to say something


stair replied, "God if I say that and it don't come to pass I'll look like a fool!"


stair's dog barked back at him, "Better you than me! Better you than me!"

NAME:: Kenneth billings

FROM:: stair injustice

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKakw1VpMnc


NAME::  Steve

FROM::  stair to the chair

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 I agree with Jeff


"stair would send the husbands and fathers into the fields to work all day so he could rape their wives and daughters in his trailers.
The girls wouldn't say anything because he had them petrified in fear.


he should be sent to the electric chair What I meant in my last post is there was the death penalty in the Old Testament for rape. In the Net Testament Jesus said that you resist not evil. He also said he that has no sword let him buy one. (Luke 22:36) There is a time for Godly men to rise up and protect their wives / daughters / family / family of God from these wolves. Protecting ones family / the family of God is righteousness. "


NAME:: Steve 

FROM:: Outside The Tabernacle

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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In case you were not aware stair had a group of people standing outside the tabernacle yelling at him "false prophet! liar!"


NAME:: Rowland

FROM:: steve Thinks?

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Steve is in the background telling me Tim B. doesn't really know the score but he does.

Tim B. and I have been in touch with the D.A. from day one and what we know about ralph's jail time is right out of Avant's mouth.

No steve Tim is not wrong.

steve thinks if a girl is black and goes with a white guy who is old, that the southern people are so tight with each other that these folk would do ralph in right there in the jail house.

Hey steve people are doing their dirty little deeds and end up in jail only to laugh about it, defending themselves that they are innocent.

ralph did the same thing as the rest of them.

The way the average jail bird figures it is that a women deserve what she gets.

This is the across the board excuse for law violator to justify themselves.

The way ralph played the jail house game was like someone on death row, because ralph needs to get folks feeling sorry for him in an effort to gain control over their thinking.

ralph is about control and doing what it takes to manipulate thoughts. In this way ralph get people fighting for him against others.

NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Jail

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hey Tim

ralph plays the game wherever he goes of controlling peoples minds. In jail ralph was filmed on his knees praying, folding his hands, hunched over as if he were being presecuted for the glory of Jesus Christ.

Nothing was further from the truth, but the inmates were easy to fool just like ralph's farm inmates.

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Thank God.

NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM:: Steve

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  What Stair said was right. Stair was put in solitary confinement because he was getting every criminal in the jail to follow him. The Sheriff dept. was afraid that there might be a jail uprising because of Stair's preaching, that is why he was put in solitary confinement.


One must realize that the Demonic spirit on Stair, one that can sway even someone just looking to serve God, can easily manipulate a criminal possessed of demonic spirits themselves.
Inmates were giving Stair their food and blankets, sitting spell bound as Stair preached to them all. The fear of the Jailers were very real and the only way to protect themselves was to remove stair from the general population.


Blessings
Bro. Tim


NAME:: Noel?

FROM:: Steve

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

I read an article today, stating the U.N has predicted the world population would reach 7 billion by the 31st of October 2011.
I am patiently waiting, to hear what R.G Stair's excuse would be, for those who don't know what I am referring to, Stair predicted that Jesus would come before the world hits 7 billion people, lets hope that the people who believes in him (Stair ) will wake up from their slumber and realise they put their trust in a man rather than in Christ Jesus, all Honour and Glory to Jesus Christ.... Amen

NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: Trembling before ralph

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Many people can never understand the devotion to God that we have so carefulness and the fear of God is unknown to them.

Larry S. was one such man who was thrown off the farm and brought back on again. He was so traumatized fearing God would actually damn him as ralph has declared for years, anyone not obeying ralph's voice are not obeying God ETC.......

Larry died of heart failure while in transit the second time, because the experience was so earth shattering.

The guy was young too. Just fell over dead.

Many can never understand the leverage that men of the cloth possess, however ralph and likes of his kind understand very well. In fact ralph thrives on this feeling of complete power and brutal dominance, caring nothing for those they use, throw away and destroy.    

Beyond feeling is the charge against the likes of men who conduct themselves in this manner. The only way men like that can feel anything is when they are inflicting pain and spiritually torturing the weaker ones.

ralph will be chased throughout eternity by lustful creatures from the pit of hell, who will abuse and torment him as he reaps what he has sown during his ministry of Hell at his compound.

NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Hell Compound

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  Well Steve, you have to understand Stair is a master of deceit and lies, as is the devil.
 This is why he can deceive so many Christians, and so widespread.
 My wife and I were deceived for ten years, until the Lord vomited me out of the Overcomer Hell Compound.
 Bless you, Jesus!


NAME:: Steve

FROM::  Stair In Solitary

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 stair tried to say that when he was in jail he was put into solitary confinement to "shut him up" to stop him from preaching the gospel.


But really he was put there for his own protection - If his fellow inmates had found out he had raped a black girl - they would have beaten him to death.

NAME:: Dave Mull 

FROM::Ten million dollars

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Sorry Brother Steve,
 But I have listened to Stair run his mouth of lies for ten years now and I could just vomit each and every time I hear him.
 I'll pray for you as you listen to this con-artist, Stair, swindling his listeners out or millions of dollars.
 By the way, speaking of ten million dollars.  What ever happened to Stair's prophecy God was going to give him ten million dollars.  Oh that's right, stair's god changed his mind and instead said he already gave stair ten million dollars over all those years.
 I just wonder how stair is going to change his prophecy of "thus said the Lord, the world population will never reach 7 billion people."
 And tell me, Mr. stair, how is it that God almighty changed his mind concerning the Sabbath?  Is it not suppose to be from sundown to sundown?  Why would God change his own word for you Mr. stair?  I know you are a liar, Mr. stair!
I pray for you, everyday Mr. stair and for those poor souls with you on your compound.



NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Soldiers Needed

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 God has given me a ministry to record this dog. A ministry of helps. (1 Corinthians 12:28) However, I can't always record 24/7.


Christian Soldiers Needed
We need some Brothers to do some Christian volunteer work. Here's what you need: Real Audio Player Total Recorder or Audacity Stream is here: http://www.overcomerministry.org/Listen.html
I use the Real Player stream or sometimes the Slow Internet Users Link God will give you the wisdom to use these tools. Then you email the clips to stevejacobs7777 @ gmail
Again God will give you the wisdom. Good time to record is Sabbath service starting at 10AM.



NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: I applaud Bro. James

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Amen Brother Tim

James is fearless I am sure. When a person is directly exposed to these types of false leaders and are under their thumb for a time, things become very clear.

The one thing I was noted for at the Farm Community in Canady's was that no one could seem to pin me down and herd me like a pack animal.

No brag, this is God's doing since a grow up under GREAT oppression near Detroit, with the cloud demons of heaviness of drugs and alcohol.

A jackass is what I have always seemed to have been, they are a emotionally rugged slave that can take a beating and still bounce back.

Bottom line is sometimes things just do not add up in the spirit, no matter what it looks like or what people say and I am sure this was the case with James as well.

God help you James, help you to express and share the feelings of utter hopelessness that are generated against the righteous at these Farms, that is aimed like an arrow at the heart of faith in what is right.

The Leaders think they are doing a job for God, while the scripture clearly instructs all of us to have a chain of command to where no one group of men or one one man can damage the flock.

By not following the order set by THE ALMIGHTY, the communities are set to fail.

ralph is up for a millstone and anyone who grinds the face of the sheep who are the poor in spirit.

Good Day to you all. The other communal leaders are well known bullies.

AMEN!!

Thanks Brother Tim for the heads up on the website.



NAME:: Kenda

FROM:: Ukraine

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::


 I'm glad that I've found this www.thenetteam.net site. You definitely can
write and teach and inspire. Keep writing - I'll keep reading.

NAME:: Steve

FROM:: The Pope and false stair

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 One of the things stair has said is that a prophet can not perish outside Jerusalem. And that's true. Jesus said that.


stair has prophesied (or led credence to) a prophecy that had him whisked away to Jerusalem to stand in the presence of the Pope who would command him to bow. In this prophecy, stair refused and was immediately martyred for the world to see.


When stair dies, and he will die soon, he will die most likely in SC.


If stair dies outside of Jerusalem he's a false prophet and he goes to hell.


All you got to do is wait for his death to confirm this.


stair's death is going to be the sign & seal that he was a false prophet.


he will probably die soon of old age or complications from heart failure.There is also a belief among his followers,within six months after his ( Stair ) death, Jesus Christ will return


NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: Deacon Ron

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Roberts knew Deacon Ron was cattin-round at Victory for years, yet Robert kept Ron as his right hand man. Why?

Simple, Ron was a real political personality there.

When Roberts exposed Ralph it was all about position and the way Roberts would have looks if he had done nothing after the young lady was spreading the word at Victory.

You see the young lady left ralph's farm to live on the next one that just happened to be Victory farm this time, so Roberts had little choice in the matter if he wanted to look good before his group.

You see Roberts had a new person living on his farm and was speaking to her in his office along with the boy who would marry her from the Victory farm.

The girl was in mental confusion from day one moving to the Victory farm and the members could all see that, not to mention that the young teenager was telling all that had transpired during the course of her life on ralph's farm.

So I ask each of those of you listening, if you were a black man who had standing and money in a large commune, wouldn't you also have to rebuke the pervert for his offense?

Why then didn't David Robert, do the same thing with the two gay men living on his farm years ago?

Well that too in another story.

Most of you do not know what I know about so many details about all of these community leaders that do not add up. That is why false conclusions are made.

Robert's has been used to do a job he didn't really want, like so many people, that's all.

That's the power of God HE performs His strange act and no one can stop HIS hand.

AMEN

NAME:: Steve 

FROM:: Roberts

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Wasn't Roberts one of the first ones to expose ralph (for raping them sisters)?


Wasn't Roberts who looked stair square in the eyes and told him, "you're god is a dog!" ?


Roberts may have done wrong but he's done righteous in some things.


New audio added soul.mp3 (with a little music added for effect.)


http://dedicated7.webs.com/audio.htm


Down near the bottom below ralf's pic


NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM::  Exposing Roberts!

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 Here is a new website put up by Bro. James Effler. Bro. James lived many years at Victory Community and the Upper Room in Mackville, KY before that. James exposes Pastor Roberts as the same kind of man as R.G. Stair http://www.yahwehswordexposed.org/


Brothers and Sisters, I want to let you know that ALL these men who have or has led one of these communities associated with R.G. Stair, have the same demonic influences guiding them as Stair does. Frank Lupe, David Roberts, James Baker, Charles Dowell and Pastor Rice are all one in the same as Stair, they all have the same familiar spirits, they all have been led astray by the power they have over the people they rule over.


I applaud Bro. James for standing up and exposing Roberts! I would like to see others who have lived at these other communities, stand up for what is Godly and right and warn others to beware.


God Bless
Bro. Tim

NAME:: Steve's Audio

FROM:: Lick The Floor

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

  updated http://dedicated7.webs.com/audio.htm


stair boasts how he got a Brother to lick the floor with his tongue


2nd clip


Taken from todays Sabbath service (Oct 1, 2011)

A sickening act of submission. Can you imagine how filthy that floor was?

And listen to them brothers in the background saying Amen.





NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: THUS SAITH THE LORD?

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Well said Brother Mike, you speak the truth.

 Mr. "Brother" Stair never did "touch my wife, Sister Mana, except when I did give him permission to hug my wife.
 

 Yes Brother, I can clearly see how Stair is using our dead baby daughter to pronounce his innocence and "purity" and escalate his approval ratings. 

 If you were listening the day my wife, Sister Mana, went to the Hospital and had the dead remains extracted from her, then you would have heard how Mr. stair propagated his self-proclaimed status as prophet by patronizing the Physicians as demons.  Obviously, the Doctors preserved Sister Mana's life as the Lord's will be done.
 

 Why doesn't Mr. stair tell everyone what God said to him (stair) in the dining hall at the overcomer hell, "THUS SAITH THE LORD, dave mull, sister mana IS GOING TO HAVE A BABY BOY AND NOT A GIRL AS YOU MAY WANT". 

 Or, perhaps the time we were in evening prayer when stair arose from his pious kneeling and said God said to get Dave Mull and pray for him.  When he found me in the rear seating he commanded me to come forward, which I did.  Stair said God told me to pray for you.  Nice gesture, I thought, but why would God want Stair to pray for me when I was already assured God was going to give us a baby boy?  I didn't think much of the severity of the situation as God had already said "thus saith the Lord" through the prophet's mouth.  

 Several folks there now would genuinely verify that statement. 

 Some others, like Stan, might lie for stair. 

 I don't attach any blame to Stan or even Tom Nuss, as I once was also deceived.  Only God Almighty can open their eyes.
 

 Our daughter died because I, Dave Mull, did not take my wife to the Hospital.  I understand perfectly well, God gave me what I wanted.  In other words, I never did seek God before I went to the overcomer Hell compound.  I paid the price and will forever have to live with this burden.
 

 I beseech anyone, don't listen to Mr. stair.  Instead, seek God Almighty.
 I pray for those poor souls there at the overcomer Hell farm for they are deceived.  I was also deceived and it took five long years for God to vomit me out of the overcomer Hell. 

 Thank-You Heavenly Father in Jesus name.
 

 I haven't listened to the mp3's as of yet, but I will soon.


NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Go To Hell Audio

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 gotohell_compilation.mp3 updated


http://dedicated7.webs.com/audio.htm


stair tells Bro. Amico to "Go to hell you child of hell!"


Bro. Amico, you need to stop listening to this dog.


NAME:: Steve 

FROM:: False Prophet

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Thank you for exposing this vulgar false prophet.

NAME:: Rowland

FROM:: Truth hurts

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Ralph you will stand before the people of God with your sorry reasoning

I have done so very little to actually expose ralph's herd of dirty deeds, so sure those filthy cridders living in there are going to go orbital when the truth gets out here and there.

Stan's in the back ground saying amen bro stair every two minutes. Stan is a street walker from Detroit who figures things are great, while Robert reports that the sex he has been having outside of the marriage bed takes away the pain he has from his injury, oh and the baby and mother were quickly moved off of the farm.

Million dollar man and ralfy live for sex and this is the god of the farm.

You see robert gave 2 million so he has been favored and permitted to do anything he wants, go anywhere, buy anything and so on.

If anyone reading this thinking of moving in with ralph I suggest you listen to Steve's audio clips where ralph comments saying "I didn't even touch his wife referring to Dave Mulls wife.

Wow and what twisting is going on against Dave concerning the death of his baby at ralph's farm.

You see ralph is known for touching a large portion of the wives and daughters at his farm and the people there all know it. When ralph states that he did not touch one of these wives, in ralph's mind this is mark of purity, never mind the dozen he violated and or subverted or offended.

The girls are all washed clean. ralph is not clean.

 

NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Audio Updated

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

These clips were recorded yesterday (Sabbath Service 9/24/2011. ralf is getting all  the worse in his senility.
 

I told you before that ralf is taking all stops off. he is filling up his cup.

http://dedicated7.webs.com/audio.htm


 8 new audio files

#1 son_of_man.mp3

#2 gotohell_compilation.mp3

#3 knot_heads.mp3

#4 ahhh.mp3

#5 pimp_squeak.mp3

#6 peanut_brains.mp3

#7 fellowship.mp3

#8 don't_leave_me_kirk.mp3



NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: False Foundations

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Yes David the entire farm apparatus hinges on the element of surprise to take advantage of those who love and honor God. The method ralph uses has been along time coming with many revisions, checks and balances to ensure farm corporate continuity.

All hail Lord stair, bring your money and worship at his (ralph lying profit) feet, is the farm mandate. All entry level family must come and go without the money and family members, they brought, without questioning the great and powerful ralph.

"Never mind that man behind the curtain" is the ralph stair way, and just go on a farm witch hunt to find the members dirty laundry so ralph can divide the spoils.

The farm trap works on the brownie points system, where ralph (The man behind the curtain) calls out to the residence to bring back the wooden stick on their daily search for demons in their brothers and sisters as a means of dangling them over hell for control.

The sheep follow and the dogs are on a power trip of oppression using manipulation, slight of hand or anything that serves their purposes.

The spirit of the farm lead by ralph is not one that serves THE LORD JESUS.

It is a self serving, self righteous false religious order similar to others.

Just about all religions that I have been to, tear the flock in pieces because their goals are not the care of God's people, not to mention many of them do not know what their goals are.

I have learned to stop looking to men for Godly leadership because the process here in the American forms of religion teaches that money is Godliness or the prosperity false doctrine.

One of ralph's big self validation speeches is that because he has millions flowing into his corporate faith church, God is doing it.

With leaders loving money that must be properly worked for, we see that the religious sector today clearly hates God's commands of doing righteously. 

Doing righteously means just what Paul said about money, Paul preached without commanding a charge in dollars. The love of money is ramped in our capitalistic society.

If ralph can get people to think he is a holy man and talk them into being financially sheered for the other members of the community or radio audience they are well on their way to being subverted and slaughtered in the course of time by the false prophet ralph stair.

Never mind that man behind the curtain "Obey the command" "Do what I say"

"Don't do what I do"

Beware!

 

NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Mental Anguish

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  You're exactly correct brother Mike, about mr. Stair. Not one day goes by I don't sorrow with heartache, remembering how my wife Mana has suffered great physical and mental anguish from mr. Stair' superflous oppression.  Only a devil, like stair, can oppress. 
 I only know I cannot change the damage stair has inflicted upon us during those five years we were stair's slaves.
 I hope and pray this guestbook can save any people from the agony and torment Mana and I endure each and everyday.

Dave Mull

 




NAME:: Steve 

FROM:: Wordsmith

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Yeah Brother, I'll keep them tapes coming.


stair is a wordsmith, a master of words. he can take those words, turn 'em around, flip 'em around, turn 'em inside out, get 'em to say what he wants 'em to say, pour butter on top, fry them over easy, medium or well done. he's a master chef.


he's a master deceiver.

 




NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Recordings

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Bro. Mike

I'll be making new recordings, so I'll email them to you directly.

 




NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Steve's Clips

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Send the clips here and let me hear them Steve

Steve wrote:

"I've got a whole bunch of clips here and ones I'm going to make
myself. You see we need to catch stair in his own words to expose him
so we can warn the feeble minded. Maybe they will believe."

Yours in Christ,
 Steve

 




NAME:: M.Rowland

FROM:: Leaving ralph's prison

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Yeah like all of those poor girls who were loosing their minds from being told God wants them to give in to ralph, in Jesus name, are so wrong for running from evil like the Lord tells us all to do.

 

ralph claims that if these girls reject ralph with his stinky lifestyle, then they are rejecting the Holy One of Israel.

 

Any young women between the ages of 13-40's is not safe there, because ralph is the king cheese there and will continue to make sexual advances, married or not makes no difference.

 

Then all of the bros.. in the background shouting Amen to ralph, as ralph puts them all in hell over nation radio, for separating from this filthy man and his ministry trap. 

All Tim and I did was let the new comer know that ralph's farm is a trap, that is our reasonable service.

The least we could all do is obey God's word to warn these souls who will be torn to ribbons with their whole families subverted from the ways of Holiness.

Over the last 20 years there has been a steady stream of those cast out of ralph's farm going down town to police to report all of these ugly details over and over again to no avail. Money gets him off.

And the beat goes on.

ralph stair is a false prophet of BAAL or sex same thing.

ralph is on his way to a burning hell as he goes from one lie and theft to another.

ralph can seem a very nice person on the surface, speaking the wonderful words of 

life from scripture as a means to catch his prey off guard. ralph is able to get 

people to eat out of his hand so to speak. ralph is a very talented man in this way.

Beware!!

We have ralph on tape saying Jesus would come in 1988 and by the year 2000 for those of you who are trembling in disjointed fear like Dorothy standing before the great and powerful OZ.

We are told in scripture not to fear the lying prophets who speak out of the imaginations of their own hearts, like ralph does continually. 

Sure ralph is going to make it sound like the true work of God to expose ralph's sex , moneyand false worship  trap is very evil.

www.thenetteam.net/yr2000lie.mp3

http://www.thenetteam.net/doom15.html


NAME:: Steve (Canada)

FROM:: Evil Tim ,Mike

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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www.thenetteam.net/timmikedog.mp3

 

ralph goes on to say that anyone who has left his ministry is the same.

 




NAME:: A Psalm of David

FROM:: Presence of mine enemies

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 

NAME::  M. Rowland

FROM:: Earth reward (Hush Hush)

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Amen Thomas

They have their reward on earth, after Higbee lied over the phone I heard that the Brunners did that wedding for Jason, and when they arrived Mike specifically went out of his way to state that there would be no talk of exposing ralph.

Brunner is a dog and so is Higbee, they care nothing for the flock of God only the flock they can conjure to follow and worship them.

They have their reward and it is the morsel of potage Esau sold out for.

The MEN OF I AM THAT I AM lay down their lives for the sheep, anything less is a modern day wuss or religious hypo.

None of them posted their experiences as warning.

None of them reported ralph in anyway.

In fact from time to time as always Kirk returns to the farm.

I don't want to get off on that subject and hack them boy into pieces scriptrally.

You know what I feel Thomas about this type of gutless leader because you feel it to. They come off so pristine clean Lilly white flaming servants for God and have no power to back up their high sounding words. 

Paul was struck physically as we will be struck verbally, calling these types by names such as WHITED WALL ETC.............

Brother Lawrence S. spoke out on radio with me about these people who seem so super spiritual. I will never forget his first day coming to the farm having sold all, going into a rage and telling me I wouldn't believe him if he told me.

Later it came out how ralph had been putting his hand on his girl making sugestive passes and such.

Forgive them all right? Why sure, but they are not asking so while I forgive them and am free in the spirit, they are not.

They are without the power of THE GREAT I AM.

These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.


NAME:: Thomas R Belford

FROM::  Earthly  Status (Cain)

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Very well spoken Brother Mike you started from the very beginning exposing the overcomer and so did bro Tim.  When he first returned and got the report and seen for himself the unrepentance of Ralph and he could see the men who have been through this before with Ralph for their own status here on this earth, supporting a man under a strong delusion. 

And now they have their reward on earth.   Its very sad this man cannot, as Cain repent, for there is not a place for him to repent because of the delusion sent to him by our farther and savoir Yashua.

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Farm Chrildren

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Amen Bro Tim

We are the true Overcomers, only because we have followed the commands to separate from ralph's repetitive evil, not just turning a deaf ear to all of the cries for justice from those who are violated in one way or another.

Thanks for holding up the standard so high.

Very few have done the right thing to speaking out after knowing all of the facts. Then most ran away without concern for others, who will fall into ralph trap.

In fact some, like Kirk Higbee  have gone as far as lying over the phone that they knew nothing about ralph's exposure or sinful lifestyle during the past 25 years.

Men who dare challenge the forces of dark oppression, like all of the dear souls at THE NET TEAM, will suffer rejection for pleasing God.

Amen Tim. I am sure the children are much the wiser.

Ray's daughter called me in utter disbelief, asking why her dad took them to stair's community but I am sure she will soon understand.

I will never forget Brunners littlest boy (20 Years Old Man) crying to Daddy that I hurt his feelings somehow, Mike would use his position against anyone who he didn't like personally but covered for ralph.

Then the entire family without any word of warning about all that they knew of ralph's past behavior, just walked away without conscience.

Those children (Young adults) knew everything and instead of being encouraged to do right with the knowledge by exposing evil, they were instructed to think that if the people on the farm couldn't figure out what was going on there, then they must be children of darkness anyway.

On the other hand I will never forget the real men and women who fought against these forces of darkness instead of only thinking of their own bellies.

Those have pleased God and have suffered with Christ.

 




NAME::  Tim Butler

FROM::  10 years gone

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 The 16th marked 10 years since we left the OverComer Farm. We were truly overcomers! Alot of things have happened in our lives since then....Always amazes me to see all the "Kids" that were on the farm, when we were there, all grown up now.

Some might say that after 10 years, don't you think you ought
to leave that "Old Man" alone?

I say unto you....Evil never ends till it is destroyed! We are not to make friends with evil or ho hum it, but rather face it head on.

Till Stair is no more, or truly repents, we will never stop exposing the false prophet of Walterboro!

Keep up the good fight of the faith Saints...Maranatha

 




NAME::  condemn

FROM:: not?

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil

For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved

he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. . .

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy:



NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Cult Traps

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hi Charles

You are quite welcome.

Many feel that a virgin should scream if she is truly being raped as has been suggested, however the type of metal rape of the entire family network at ralph's farm is hard to explain.

Eventually the wolf moves in for the kill.

This comes as such a surprise when young men move their families to what they consider a safe haven by comparison to the world, Or at least they thought so.

Then only to find it was all a trap laid by the devil to rob many of their sanity/virginity/trust in their fellow mates.

"Though He slay Me yet will I trust Him."

This is the only answer to this question of why.

God was and is in control of our tests, giving the wolf permission to destroy for a time.

The whole object of going to these farms is to help shelter our children against the whoredog mentality, then while we praised God the fox moved in for his kill.

So be it. God has now identified the dogs of this generation. This is the plan of God to make HIS people a PREY.

The predator must be revealed.

Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Jer 11:19 But I was like a lamb or an ox that is brought to the slaughter; and I knew not that they had devised devices against me, saying, Let us destroy the tree with the fruit thereof, and let us cut him off from the land of the living, that his name may be no more remembered.

Zec 11:4 Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;
5 Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.

 

NAME:: Charles

FROM:: Liar/Christian

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Thank you Mr Roland.

Yes as you said and correctly observed, I neither give nor intent offense to anyone at any time unless it is to protect myself or my family in a situation when the same are at threat, and at the same time I will not allow my faith in Christ to be used by a manipulator or mind-controlling wolf or liar claiming to be a Christian.

I was scammed many years ago by a preacher who is now gone and I wish I had known better. Good thing I listened to Texe Marrs in advance when he warned us about RGS and his cult. Hopefully he will repent B4 it's too late but I am afraid not, I thus walk away and partake not of his cultfalsehood.

Peace to you.

NAME:: Charles

FROM::To Garland TX

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  All I am saying is messing around with another man's wife and/or daughter is not tolerated in the world and far more so it should not be tolerated in the church. G-d knows how many other so-called "preachers" on the radio and TV over the past decades have been caught up in this sin of the flesh that is so prevalent in 'Christian America'. Yes if someone messed around with my wife and two daughters it's then personal, because such would constitute a direct attack on my family and NOT an attack on my faith.

Get it?

I fear you're sadly confused as to the fine line that divides our eternal faith and Christian walk from the 24/7 reality of life on this present earth, as so many christians seem sadly confused, and thus the con-men and the wolves take advantage of their inability to percieve fantasy from reality and thus are 'made merchandise' and sold a bill of goods.

Get it?

Not this little brown duck! I may turn-the-cheek when my faith is attacked, but G-d help you if you attack my own. Peace Bro.


NAME:: Titus

FROM:: Law

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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...........................contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
10 A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject;
11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: Easy Sex

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 

Hey Thomas long time

David is really telling the truth all over again just like it was back in 2001. It sounds like a flash back of the same ole ralph.

The farm souls hate this verse as it would put ralph back in the jail house where he belongs.

Ole ralph likes all that easy money and sex.

 

1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.


NAME:: Thomas R Belford

FROM:: Hell Hole

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Thank you Bro David Mull for a clear view of the overcomer hell hole.  Nothing has ever changed there. and never will as long as stair controls his sex farm.

NAME:: David Mull

FROM:: Narcissistic Church Leader

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

I have been asked to explain in more depth how I helped Mr. Stair cover up his pornography tracks on his computer.

 I was living at the Overcomer Hell Ministry for several months by now.  Three of us were sitting around the broadcast listening to Mr. Stair when suddenly sounds came over the broadcast which were obviously an orgasm at its peak.  Brother Tony abruptly got up and raced to the radio room.  The orgasm took place for about 45 seconds before it was shut off.  I just shrugged it off as “Brother Stair” is the Prophet of God.  A couple of months later the two brothers I was with at the time left the community with their families.  At the time I was angry they left, I didn’t understand.  My wife, Mana, states the sisters in the kitchen heard it also and said “oh well, you just have to forgive him as he is the Prophet”.  I personally don’t think so, NOW, as the Bible is clear in these matters of adultery.

 Now understand, before I moved to the Overcomer Hell Ministry, Mr. Stair commandingly approached me in private and stated he had repented of his sexual deviant acts, and he ceased to commit adultery ever since.  I believed him and forgave Mr. Stair.  This was a few months before I moved there.  Mr. Stair also made me promise not to go to the Doctors while we are here.  I gave Mr. Stair my solemn word.

 About two years into my tour, Mr. Stair began calling me into the radio room and asked me to clean off his computer history and tracks.  I knew he was asking me to erase his pornographic tracks, but again I didn’t think much of it.  After a few cleaning sessions I gave Mr. Stair the software so he can do it himself.  Now believe me, Mr. Stair had one of the fastest computers built by Dell, however Mr. Stair states his computer is too slow (give me a break Stair).  Now, why did Mr. Stair not go to Brother’s Mark and Peter???  Simple, because them two were doing everything possible to stop Mr. Stair from viewing pornography on his computer.  When Brother Mark came into the computer room and found out what I was doing, he began to rebuke Mr. Stair sharply and a shouting match ensued.  I quickly exited the radio room.

 My wife’s baby was soon due and everything was going well, not realizing she was breached.  I really wasn’t worried at all as Mr. (profit) Stair had prophesied “thus saith the Lord, you are going to have a baby boy and not a girl”.  My wife, Mana, was in severe distress with copious amounts of green discharge flowing out of her body.  I went to the radio room and told Stair the baby is going to die if we don’t get her some help.  Mr. Stair just blew me off and sent me on my way.  Realizing and reconciling myself to the fact the baby is already dead now and Mana was also going to die in a day or two at the most.   Mr. Stair barged into my cottage and gave her permission to go to the Hospital.  Not knowing at the time, Mana’s parents called and threatened Mr. Stair with a lawsuit if she dies.  Mana barely came through the ordeal with a week in the hospital and several weeks after with constant convalescent care.

 You ask me why we didn’t go to the Hospital sooner?  I told you already, I am a man of my word.  Unlike Stair.  He said he would pay the hospital bill and not to go on Welfare, well, needless to say we are still paying that off to this day.  You are a damn liar, Stair!!!

 Mr. Stair has stated on International radio that I blame him for our baby’s death.  http://www.freewebtown.com/dedicated7/audio/dave_mull2.mp3  That is another lie from Hell as I have never blamed Stair directly.  You see?  I blame myself for not listening to others whom left before our arrival at the Overcomer Hell compound.  If I would have taken heed, none of this would have ever occurred.

 Our last 18 months there at the Overcomer Hell compound was difficult understanding what had just happened to us.  On top of that, Mr. Stair was exceedingly harsh on us and that is when I knew we had to get out of there.  Mana’s health was failing and she was again near death with a system septic shock condition.  I asked Mr. Stair if she can go to the Doctor and he firmly said “NO!!!, she may not go to the Doctor”.  There were three other witnesses there who heard Stair’s reply.

 Now Mr. Stair stated the other week over the air that anyone there can take a car at anytime to go to a Doctor.  You are a liar, Stair.  You really should repent of your wickedness, Stair.

 When Mr. Stair forced his way into my cottage and assaulted me physically and verbally, I knew I was going to have to get out of there.  Not for my safety, but for Stair, as I would have….

 You lie again, Stair, as I have never used you as a job reference.  I would have to be an idiot.  I was simply accounting for my whereabouts.  In any case, I am so thankful to you for the bad reference as I have a much better job because of you, Stair.

 I truly believe Ralph Stair is a narcissist to the fullest degree and needs help badly.  Mr. Stair is controlling, angry, abusive, liar and you had better submit to him and worship him, otherwise he will tear you apart like a wolf that he is.

 Believe me, as I have lived with Stair for five years.

 I warn everyone, stay away from this devil.


  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsIYveXbzF4



NAME:: Rowland

FROM::Bad Mouth

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Well Ken if people want to bad mouth others through name calling they need to be ready to be slapped down like a school boy should.

Eventually the schooly should catch on and get up to speed.

Stop sucking that spiritual hind tit at your cHurch that feeds you all those lies, that's all I am saying.

As for my goodness, you obviously never heard what happened to me early in life living around the metro-Detroit area or you wouldn't have made such a silly remark.

Come on think man, for yourselves even. The Holy Spirit will guide you, quit asking everyone else what the spirit is saying and read the book for yourself.

Now is that to big a shock for you that you must spout off like a childish Christian?

Just go read it tonight.

Anyone can read from the book of the ACTS -Revelation in one or two evenings.

But most won't they have every excuse you can imagine.

And then they want to be the highest authority on the subject.

Post something intelligent please.

NAME:: ken

FROM::execpt mike rowland

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Bro Mike wrote:

"Get a Bible and read the thing without someone telling you what it means and just maybe you will see GOD."


execpt mike rowland of course - he is never wrong
your self righteousness is as a filthy rag



NAME:: M Rowland

FROM:: To Texas

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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No Charles is not wrong unless you consider God's Holy law evil. Forgiveness for a one time offense is the light you are putting ralph's sins in, of destroying lives. 

This is utter non-sense.

Jesus wants us as his followers to find the new and living way yes, but this does not make the law evil  "Eye for and Eye"

Sure we all forgive but let's say someone came to Garland Texas and killed all of your family in the area and they were after you now. 

Would you just roll over and play dead?

Now who looks like a fool?

No God is not a fool and HE has put laws and powers in place even today for offenders. 

That is what Charles is saying but there is no justice in the land for 501c3.

This is a common example of folks not knowing God, to think God calls the law evil simply because Jesus taught forgiveness.

Oh you will say that killing is a lot worse and on and on with your faulty reasoning.

That fact of the matter is that God has put the government powers in place to stop law violators so don't call them evil.

Just try it, go do what ralph does outside the Church Bubble and see how fast you get locked up.

You liars, Charles never said he would murder anyone so you are twisting Charles statement.

That makes me think Charles is being hated without a cause, sounds like someone else I heard of.

What Charles said was he would have beat ralph's head in, so ralph would think twice about the repeating of his cute little sins.

As it stood in our tabernacle meetings in 2001, no one wanted to expose ralph to the law whatsoever, being brainwashed to think that the powers of the land were evil, so why bother.

The local law enforcement said that a father would be well within his right to take control of the situation had he found this old man forcing himself on his daughters.

I agree that murder is wrong, but let's be careful not to throw out good judgment in the process.

According to God in ROMANS the powers of Gov. control are founded out of the Law of right and wrong and have men who administer vengeance on offenders.

This does not mean that the system does not forgive them. First thing the system did was forgive ralph by letting him off on a first offense.

This is the systems called plea bargaining, however if ralph is caught again the system won't be so forgiving.

Jesus said "GO AND SIN NO MORE"

why do you think Jesus said that?

It's simple and the answer in found in the rest of HIS sentence.

"LEST A WORSE THING COME ON YOU"

The worse thing was the that the law would come into play if after Jesus got her off the hook scott free through forgiveness.

We know ralph is a repeat offender there is no question.

The Net Team is a group of God's people who do not follow the lies of this age coming out of religion nor do they enjoy the slaughter of the flock.

Forgiveness has a place in all of our hearts, on the other hand a jail cell has it's place as well. We all forgive the murders, we just can't have them walking around thinking it's okay and no one is going to stop them or even put up a fuss.

No, most of you do not know God because you were taught wrong in your false Church.

Get a Bible and read the thing without someone telling you what it means and just maybe you will see GOD.



NAME:: Garland, TX

FROM:: To Charles 

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Charles say one day you find that your father or wife or daughter were guilty of the very same things as stair would you be in shock and kill them after finding out.  now they would be the last people you would expect this to come from.   

should they die. 

ralph is a father he has a daughter and a wife should they want him dead.  

Charles you are a idiot.  Not a christain


NAME:: Jesus

FROM:: Word of God

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
  

  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
 

 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Luke 22:48 But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51 And Jesus answered and said,
Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him,
Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

Isa 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.


NAME:: Jeff

FROM:: Petrified

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 stair would send the husbands and fathers into the fields to work all day so he could rape their wives and daughters in his trailers.
The girls wouldn't say anything because he had them petrified in fear.
he should be sent to the electric chair.

NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM:: Vengeance

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Charles, I think that when one finds out about these violations to ones wife or daughter, the shock is so stunning that a "man of God" would do such a thing is overwhelming. No one who has lived on Stair's farm ever dreamed he could do such a thing and act the way he does, thats why many who live there still deny it to this day.
Forgiveness is a great part of Christianity and I believe that everyone who goes and lives at Stair's is truly seeking to live Holy. To beat or kill someone for violating a family member is just! But not very Christ like. Vengeance is the Lord's, He will repay! 


NAME:: Charles

FROM:: Unpunished

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 The only question that still sticks in my mind is where were the husbands or fathers of the wives and/or daughters that Ralph allegedly took advantage of all these years?

Where were the men who's righteous indignation and wrath should have been stoked red-hot when they learned that the "Prophet" was in fact sleeping with and having sex with their wives and daughters right under their noses?

I can tell you this, if it were my wife or daughter who was violated, ole Ralphie and anyone protecting him, would have found themselves lying in an hospital ER on a gurney in traction from the beating with my fists they would have gotten at my hand!

Alleged "Prophet" and Christianity aside, when you mess sexually with another  man's wife, or worse his pearl of great price underaged daughter, G-d help you if that father/husband/man gets his hands around that coward perpertrator's neck!

This kind of stuff don't go unpunished in the world an it should not in the church either IMHO.

NAME:: Winston

FROM:: I was duped

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 After a closer examination of your site and the valuable information it provides, I am the first to admit that I was in the wrong.


Like many, I was duped into believing that this "last day prophet" is God's end time messenger.


Instead what I find to be revealed here is that he is a manipulative personality who seeks to prey on weak and feeble minded individuals and a possible sex predator.


I do hope that if your allegations are true, that Mr. Stair will be brought to justice in a criminal court of law.


I do wish you Godspeed in your continued work and hope that all will receive and understand your important message in these end times.


Winston,
UK


NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: Passive

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You see being passive and rolling with the politically correct flow will cost you your soul just as much as the person who is overbearingly leading the ignorant down the wrong path. Both fall into the ditch remember.

And no the ditch is not a temporal place that leads to life.

Both classes of people are the same, they are without proper judgment.

Many think Billy Graham and Benny Hinn are Holy men as well, but a closer look shows us that anyone who is a leader must follow righteous thinking. These men follow money.

The problem is that God said this last day generation of people living on earth just before HIS coming would be VOID of this quality, so I have to look at the world this way.

Good judgment caused Jesus to be cast out of ALL religious circles, leaving the people in such pain that they put their hands over their ears and gnashing upon HIM.

Stop rolling over to every sleazy drunken spirit that comes by whispering "Go With The Flow".

No one can continue in sins and be raised back up, this is common Bible sense.  God will not populate His city with violators who have not and will not demonstrate their love for HIM by obedience in this life.

Telling people that they can keep on sinning, God understands and will over look these sins, would mean that many will gain admittance to the Kingdom.

Jesus said the that was what constituted the wide or broad way leading to destruction.

Jesus said that few there would be that will find the straight and narrow way leading to life.

Jesus said that only a few or a remnant or a tiny portion on the entire population at any given time would find the entrance.

Now if you want to think that men who continue in their sins like ralph does for 20-30-40-50 years is going to qualify for the straight and narrow gate, then I can tell you that you do not know God.

The God I read about is many things like great, terrible, kind and loving but this passive view that everybody does it and just keep doing it cause God will let it go, makes HIM a fool.

God have given us the power to walk all over these demons He doesn't want us sleeping with evil.

God is not going to reverse HIS words of judgment.

You are calling HIM a fool if you think otherwise.

I realize you may be doing this ignorantly so my message to all of you is to go with the fear of the Lord found in scripture instead of this passive spirit of lies being fed to you from the majority of the populous.

NAME:: M.Rowland

FROM:: To Winston

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Winston Wrote:

Christ's salvation is available to all and through all. Mr. Stair, although his sins are egregious (flagrantly Bad), has repented and in my view worthy of the Kingdom.

Bro Mike writes:

Recently ralph has done the same things all over again with another mans wife (she is 30-40) on ralphs farm. This is the time frame 2010 sometime before and after. Clearly you have no connections with those who live at ralphs farm these days. 

When I left in 2001 ralph had been caught many times and continued to assault the same young girls as often as possible right under our noses during proceedings to correct his error.

Prior to 2001 starting around 1988 ralph was using various girls the same way.

Now ralph continues to take other men's wives using the double honor tactics on the young flowers. 

Dear Winston Sir; You don't know God at all.

Repent of your wishy washy display of acting as if you really understand the power of God. 

Sin is made a mockery of year after year by ralph and those who hide his lustful appetites from the innocent new comers.

God and Jesus are two different positions then there is the Holy spirit. God will destroy those who refuse to repent asking Jesus to cover it by the spirit.

God is going to damn ralph and all those who made jokes like this this out of repentance.

Repenting meaning a person stops and turns from the dirty lifestyle, not use the terms to hide behind, long enough to catch another fish in his trap.

Repent Winston and stop thinking ralph is God's Prophet to the Nations, ralph is nothing more than a false leader who is getting what he wants from this world.

Many men have lots of women in their bed of adultery, but most do not go around saying that God is backing them up.

No because sinners know what sin is and this is what makes it so exciting to these souls. Its a no no.

Then ralph will pull up his pants after violating another soul just before service, only to run back into his pulpit to speak worldwide that he is God's Holy man. 

NAME:: Jesus

FROM:: Word Of God

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Ye blind farm guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

Woe unto you, chief men and Pharm leaders, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Thou blind Pharm leaders, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Woe unto you, chief men and Pharm leaders, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

Woe unto you, chief men and Pharm leaders, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?


NAME:: Jesus 

FROM:: Word of God

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except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

every tree is known by his own fruit. why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets,

when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.

woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Woe unto you, ye blind guides.



NAME:: Winston Northrup

FROM:: United Kingdom

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 I am shocked that you Mr. Rowland are able to tell us who is going to hell and who is not.


I am rather offended that you take it upon yourself to sit in the judgment seat of Christ.


Christ has rather called us to compassion and not condemnation. Christ's salvation is available to all and through all. Mr. Stair, although his sins are agregious, has repented and in my view worthy of the Kingdom.


Judge not lest ye be judged Jesus told us. I hope you will open your heart Mr. Rowland and be a little less condescending to those who have affirmed a faith in Christ.

NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Ralph's Claws

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Sounds a lot like a lawyer clause. Ole ralph's got his claws out now after being in jail cause he don't like that cement and block cell.

Ralph will go to hell soon as he will die in his sins.

Enjoy your claws ralph that permits you to tear the flesh of your prey, but in hell you will wish you had given back what you have stolen as scripture requires for a truly repentant heart.

You won't stop taking the others brothers women because you can not hear the WORD OF GOD that says that you must stop to qualify for the kingdom.

ralph you are so far gone now that after all of these years there is only about 1 percent ralph peeking out and 99 percent oppressive demonic control over your being, which you have willingly and gladly given your soul to.

The miraculous mind freeze  you work on large groups to gain there wives, money and worship can all be owed to the dark lords you have faithfully sacrificed to.

You have earned what you are getting so I hope you can enjoy it all fast, because it is just about over.

ralph you are following the path of a fool as recorded in God's word. The Bible says fools make a joke out of someone pointing out right and wrong.

Just keep trying to use your radio microphone to justify yourself to the public, but remember that many of them can hear the uncertainty in your voice now.



NAME:: Bro Brad

FROM:: Did U Know

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  From a good friend of mine, 4 brothers are moving into a double wide trailor on stairs property somewhere near Canadys SC.  One condition, Stair is literally making the 4 sign an agreement stating that none can ask for anything back and how they oan be removed for failure to  adhere to rules.  I am sure there is more to the agreement, of course, all in favor of Ralphs, Faith Cathedral Fellowhip.  The originization that Stair says runs his ministry, Only problem is, Stair completely controls each one on the board members while he is Chairman.  The South is set up in such a way, just give us a cut, and we will be on our way.


NAME:: Bro....Mike

FROM:: Money Lust Debts

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Hi Charles

Yes I agree that the rich men like ralph are going to cry when the crash comes over all of their ill gotten gain. However I do not think that the global demonic political faction is going to miss their opportunity to suck the rest of the worlds country down the financial drain using the USA for bait.

This is only the beginning of world economic collapse.

The NWO monkeys are Satans puppets and Lucifer wants to use the USA to draw other countries in to return the favor so to speak. You see as long as I have been alive the USA has always come to the rescue of other lands of folks who were in need.

So since the world markets are highly dependant on the US dollar, the other countries might be drawn into loaning us more money that we can never pay, so this will damage their economy as well.

The goal of the devilish control freaks is for the entire worlds domination.

When other countries like China lend us more money that we can not pay back, some day they will want our country. Or we will have world war 3.

The goal is to destroy the present order with all countries.

They want the USA and China to kill off one another, so the USA will continue to demand China lifes blood for nothing much in return.

In other words the USA wants to buy good from China at cost (No retail) with money we did not work for, just printed it one day and is not backed by the gold standard.

The markets will not go down completely is the USA this year, rather we will be a tool to produce anger to starving third world nations who stand by watching 50 percent of the worlds goods consumed by the USA population that represents only a few percent.

We are the land of promise flowing with milk and honey to the rest of the world.

We are fat and lazy, loving many sick pleasures that God hates. We use a small portion of our income to feed ourselves while the larger part of the world can not completely provide for their families with a full paycheck.

We are and will be hated by other nations who must stand by while their children died and the American's do not really care. Instead the USA is so engrossed with their reveling and perversion they can only see the fulfillment of their next lustful meal.

In one hour the destruction will come. We are a part of the great whore in Revelation.

Just hold your horses, it is coming.

 

 

 

 

 

NAME:: Charles

FROM:: Debt/Borrowing Limit

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  It should be very amusing to see and watch the proceedings come August 02, 2011 should the US Congress decide not to raise the Debt/Borrowing Limit against the Credit of the United States and our country goes into fiscal Default. If that happens the money in Ralph Stair's many bank accounts, along with every other crooked so-called "preacher" out there will be worthless! Not even worth the ink it is printed out to be. Yes it seems judgment will shortly come to this Idol-driven nation who proclaims "in G-d we Trust" on their coins but soon this so-called god of their's will be seen for what it is, a lie and a fake and all who put their trust in the same will cry and howl like stuck pigs when their money is worthless, including all of Ralphie's Ill-gotten gains. From our mouth to G-d's ear. Amen.

NAME:: Brad

FROM:: in the middle

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Probably So You know what might have happened and i am sure i could have been at fault.....I got mixed up in the middle of a reproof that wasn't about me.  I made some comments about a subject and then I thought I was being referred to as a "community boy".  I do alot of chatting with the general populace of christianity over the past 10 years.  One of my pet peaves is when a person attacks the messenger because of the message.  In the realm of the internet chat its call a "personal attack".  It looks like I got caught in the crossfire. lesson learned>> usually I try to duck.
> Hey if you ever want another avenue to blow trumpet on stair or others.  Go to Paltalk.com and download the program and set up a free account.  Once logged in > Go to rooms >> select religion > select christianity > and choose a room to participate in OR make your own room.  In your own room you can play recordings or speak live all day and give your own room its own Title.>>ie The Net Team Usually in Paltalk Christianity section there is around 2000 persons within 70 rooms or so.  Within Paltalk worldwide there is between 60,000 and 90,000 at all times.
 
 
Be blessed and be encouraged


NAME:: M.Rowland

FROM:: "Community Boy"

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Like I said Brad I am not going to drop to my knee every 5 minutes cause your all upset with my phrasing. Hey "Community Boy" is a lot nicer than coward don't you think?

You see Brad I was not talking about or to you in reference to this phrase.

I think you are okay Brad really and if I have hurt you this was not my intention.

Now lets get back to the feeling I have had when speaking to you on several occasions. All I said was, you like the last say, and feel that you are right in doctrines. This can be a good thing or bad.

Nothing more. Just that I felt sick and was not given a chance to express my side while you just walk away. Now that you are back I will have to say that you ARE more grown up than before. AMEN!

When I walked down the streets of Michigan in the early 1970's I spoke with thousands door to door and house to house. 40+ years I have been sampling the spirits that people cling to.

One sin is as the next and we must face the facts, we all battle with them and will till death do us part. So the key is forgiveness. Many feel if another changes that this is the only time that they should forgive.

Your returned to the guest book after some sword fighting shows you DO forgive.

Yes and I DO too, that is, I forgive those who attack THE NET TEAM members for their particular view point.

Now go back and read. About "Community Boy" or Ken. This has nothing to do with Brad.

I hate religious demons the worst. When people set up communities and say they are CHRISTIAN then they pray to Mary or kiss ralphs' other end after that ralph has a known dirty track record, there is little difference.

Any leader in this setting who is misleading a number of God's people is going to be dealt harshly with. Then on top of that Ken will attack poor ole Tim Butler?  And I should just pet this guy?

No I am COMMANDED TO REPROVE KEN!!!

Anyway glad to see you haven't thrown in the towel Brad. Hold up that sword.

You have many good points.

Ken told Tim to "GO TO HELL" why aren't you quoting the scripture that states anyone who hates his brother is a murderer?

Why not Brad? What happened to your sword that you dropped it right when a true brother needed some backing?

Where is your Bible?

If you could only see that this man is justifying his murdering spirit as man of God.

Now that is what got him cut off.

He is nothing more than a "community boy" who THINKS he is doing GOD service.

In other words you could say he is playing the boy for the devil over the community religious position that he holds.

Or he is puppet (Playing The Boy to the DEVIL) to spirits over his community status while the spirit of murder he justifies manifesting in the spoken word against a brother.

It is what comes out of Ken's mouth that is defiling him.

Not on the group I write on. No sir, you won't get away with that and have me pet the guy like he is Okay.

Guess again.

He got off easy by comparison, when the Boss comes and Ken is still breathing out thing filthy words.

 

NAME:: Brad

FROM:: "Community Boy"

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 Matt 7:2 With the same measure Like the book of Revelations to the seven churches.  I have many things to write unto you.  I see your many good works, like strengthening true authority structure and not condoning impure sexual behavior but one thing I have against you is justifying your personal attacks against the brethern with maliciousness.


Where do I come up with that, i believe from the Spirit of God. You say, calling someone a "community boy" is of God and use comparisons like when jesus gave people discriptions.  I truely doubt anyone is listening when one justifies themself.  It truely takes one asking God through with the Spirit of God giving witness if something is appropriate or not.


Besides the words in your first post, community boy.  Of which I am not of a community (of course, you will say "you have it in your heart"), but you were of course just spouting maliousness. You never thought someone would call you on it.  You have called Stair on his sins so many times, like calling people peanut brains, of course stair justified it too.  And secondly, I am not a boy, of which I heard you so adamantly state you were 50+ years old.  I am also 40+ years old, and can state many reasons why I am not a boy. 


In your anger, you state, I am a religious high dog and my parents must have wiped my nose.  Neither statement has any fact.  You know nothing about my upbringing nor my current or past walk with God.  I hear alot of stair in your brow beating message.  Will you repent of it, like you so declare stair should. 


You say, I would let almost anyone in heaven.  You don't know my teaching nor who God would ultimately let in heaven (you say). Even Paul delivered a man up to the death so the Spirit would be saved.  All his works were lost but he would be saved as through the fire.


You say I am backing haters,  I say prove it and show where that was done in one instance and in a multiple times.


You  call this religious chatter, I understand because its dealing with Your strongholds that you want to sweep under the rug. 


I could actually see Jesus using descriptions to come against the non children of God religious spirited persons, aka the Parisees.  Can you show me in scriptures where Jesus attacks, his true brothers and sisters, the family of God. 


I have a testimony, of being born again, Spirit filled, called of God and many other descriptions, like the apple of His eye. 


Instead of offending the body of Christ, which Jesus said offenses must come. If you offend other in the body make peace by forgiveness, with God and your fellow brother.  Why not exemplify, 2 Tim 2.24 and 2 Tim 2.25 if you want to stand out.


Iron will always sharpen iron.  Judgment must first begin at the house of God. 


Don't forget, I have many good things to say about you.  The greatest man isn't the one who is the meanest, we have all seen that example.



NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Phone call

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Hello Net Team

I got a call from a troubled young girl who I was able to help. This makes the site all worth while. She was being oppressed and pushed out into the dark or at least she was feeling that way. 

Mary Beth is a type of the true body of believers who find themselves wanting to do right to please God and when suddenly their team mates turn against them, they can not understand it.

All they want to do is follow the word of God and those around them try to change what they are doing because their actions are in direct opposition to their own.

The tares do not see that the wheat are continuing in the word. All that the opposing team sees (Oh and they call themselves Abraham's seed) is that others  who are do things different than they do, are actually exposing them and showing the error that they abide in.

This empowers the tares to sway the Godly by hook or by crook and they will stop at nothing to put the Godly in a bad light. Most of this is done from the perspective of the public eye. The tares are driven by many spirits and generally don't know it.

We have all been taken by spirits and God will forgive, however the forgiveness can not come unless a person is willing to admit that they are being taken by demons to use their vessels for sinning.

When we turn and yield our limbs to the spirit of Jesus we can magnify God instead of sinning and showing forth the praises of Satan.

Religious people are the hardest people to show that they have sinned and Jesus called them names like "Of their father the devil" "Hypocrite" Other name calling came from the brothers "Whited Wall" meaning clean on the outward but really not Holy.

So name calling is good. It is judgment that brings this about.

Now the poor girl is finding out like the rest of us that she has been tossed into the LOIN'S DEN where we as Christians always find Jesus there to help us.

In this case Mary Beth has found herself in a group of women who think they have the right to teach the word to men. 

Women are a wonderful part of Godly interaction amongst the members of the body of Jesus as long as they are directed properly to another woman or child who needs to be encouraged. Men are not God's best choice when teaching some things to young girls.

This is why ralph wants that job.

Girls need to be taught by an example also from the older ones like them. Like boys need a DAD as a roll model. 

But to put a women in charge of instructing and commanding authority over men is just as wicked as gay marriage.

I was married to such a girl who claims she is an ordained Pastor and I had to learn this the hard way in a very short space of 1 year.

The women who think they are good to go in the 5 fold ministry usually think that they are doing the right thing and have been programmed by some super hero preacher.

The big names like Kenneth Copeland ordain women. So these women believe this makes it right.

We will all be called on the carpet one day and each one of us will answer to God and no one else. The scripture clearly shows us that women are to learn in silence. 

Their hair is a sign of submission, that is, when both a man and his wife are addressed by let's say a policeman or some other authority, the man speaks as head for the both of them.

It does not mean that a woman is without intelligence, rather she has confidence that her husband can speak for the both of them.  

Her hair covers her face anyway and the mans face is not partially covered so the continence of the male is more immediately evident than the female's to the authority figure. 

A woman's hair is given to her as a covering and a sign of submission to authority.

Her authority figure is her father from birth and then that position is passed to her husband by consent. 

At no time does a woman's position or status change to where she is the authority figure over a man according to the Bible.

God is Blessing you Mary Beth,  and to prove it you will be hated like I am for this scriptural view.

Keep growing your hair

NAME:: Today's Lesson 

FROM:: Mr. Know It All

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The truth is WE all have had a degree of false doctrine planted in our hearts so let's not have a hair ball when someone points it out for you.

Like that old Sunday school wOoden cHurch teaching that Adam and Eve were the only version of humankind ever to walk earth.

When you go back and read that Cain killed his brother and was cast out, Cain cried out to God that someone outside the garden would kill him knowing that God had cast him out so God agreed and put a mark on Cain as a warning to the OTHERS that they had better not kill him.

So where did these people come from?

Next thing you know Cain is taking a wife outside of the garden. Now if Adam and Eve, Cain and Able were the only human kind ever to walk earth, where did she come from?????????

Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.



NAME:: Bro  Mike

FROM:: Lighten Up Homes

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I wrote the phrase "community boy" and this is due to the fact that many communal and or religious high dogs think they are so right in all they do and I have had it with your type Brad. I do not hate any of you nor do I show hate like your last posts do.

I am quoting scripture to show you and community boy small errors that are equivalent to stumbling blocks. 

I am not going to wipe your nose like a big baby Brad, your parents must have done that way to much. I talk this way to people who feel they can lead the way (Like yourself Brad) and can't even use scripture proper.

The type of the old man in the wilderness was cut off and will always provoke God many times over, I know that. They provoked God 10 times and the people of our time keep doing it.

I don't want into your type of heaven Brad that lets almost everyone into it.

Again these words I post are not words I made up, they are right out of the Holy Bible.

You and community boy want to shoot your mouth off? Fine, but always remember Mr. uncover whoever you might be, wrong words will be slapped down as gently as possible at first, then harder as needed.

You can run away from everyone and everything you ever knew in days gone by, but you will still be stuck with yourselves, this is your trouble not everybody else.

If you want to back the haters of this site attacking us for reproving them, this is your choice.

I am not going to rub your back Brad and get down on my knees every 5 minutes because you get all offended over trifles on a continual basis.

And no I am not still trying to prove to everyone that I am a man and not a boy, that was done in my teen years and I am 54 now.

I like strong talk, it cuts through all of the hypocrisy.

When I get sick listening to religious chatter I know something is not right.

Now maybe you can see why I respond in an extreme way?

Either way let me know. You see the written form of exchange is making You mad because no one person gets the last say like you are use to.

The last say comes in the spirit of speaking right words because no man can do anything against the truth.

Learn to hold your sword up good enough to keep the rebels out of the City Gates.

 

NAME:: Brad

FROM:: Familar Spirit

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To the disrespectful  from brad It always amazes me how easy it is to flex your internet muscles in these type of posting places. 

Why don't you grow up like a man, whoever you are, when posting "community boys". 

Reproof comes to the ignorant (fool) and they have no heart for it. 

You say your christian brothers and you condone that type of disrespect.

Your the type who will not enter into the promised land. 

You know what,  I give up on dialoging with such ignorance.

Give not your pearls to the swine. 

Go and strengthen yourself in your familar spirit attitude. 

You must think your the superior one.  I am this I am that. 

Pat each other on the back, thinking how holy you are.  Your internet posting proves nothing.

I wonder why practically no one is posting in here anymore?  Go figure.

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Error

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Brad wrote:

"Sure, extreme measures were taken against them in this life and I am sure sanctions against them in the life to come"

Bible wrote:

" none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper."

" And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant."

"29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,
30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land,

No Brad sanctions means "permission depending on context" the scripture teaches that they will not enter.



NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Hey Tim

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Sounds like community boy is suffering from a severe case of reality check with all of the true facts floating around from all the ex-community members.

NAME:: M.Rowland

FROM:: Hey Brad

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Your post is much better this time, however where many people miss the boat on the whole vengeance thing listed in Romans as you quoted, is that Paul was talking to people who were use to keeping the LAW. Eye for and eye so they were being instructed not to kill people like ralph for the sinful deeds they were commiting.

None of us has done that. People today try to say that because we call ralph the pervert he is by name that we are murdering poor ole ralph.

 

Give me a break is all of have to say to a bunch of sissified greasy grace talking wandering idiots.  God's people are not fools, like are pure and hate evil and will fight against it. The words of our mouth have power so the little pack of imp's running the show these days want us to stop talking.

Isn't that to bad!

The law is coming and is Holy so we are doing our job to stand way back and are giving God place to that Law that says those outside are dogs and will be subject to eternal Judgment.

If the fathers and family members had taken vengeance for ralph has done according to the law then I would say that was wrong because we live under grace and the forgiveness it provides.

No one has done that or ralph would not be walking around now.

Brad if I could get you to understand this then the rest of your post would change dramatically.

NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM:: Unity community?

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 Is this Ken from Unity community?


I have been told worse!


Btw...I have been to Hell! It is in the Caymen Islands, I even sent my kids post cards from there.


Blessings
Tim


NAME:: Brad

FROM:: Ex-Overcomer Farm

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  ( It is I ) I understand where your coming from, after seeing so much corruption in communities that many people put their trust in.  I can't even begin to immagine the hurt or pain that children of God have experienced through the Overcomer, Upper Room, Straitway, or Victory communities.  The evil stretches from fornication to abuse and every other type of curruption.


Maybe nothing that I say is really being heard because of all the past hurt.  God is the avenger of all injustices of His chiildren, in due time.  Pain screams out against those who have hurt us.  I understand that and I AM NOT belittling vindication that is deserved.  Don't let anything I write misconstrue the truth concerning, whatever we sow, we shall also reap. 


Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.




Gods people were once know as the Children of Israel or sometimes Israel for short.  How many times did they experience times of apostasy and God allowd them to be wiped out, which meant not entering into the Promise Land.


Judges 2:11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:


Judges 3:12 And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD strengthened Eglon the king of Moab against Israel, because they had done evil in the sight of the LORD.


Judges 6:1 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD: and the LORD delivered them into the hand of Midian seven years.


In addition to Israel as a whole apostacying, how many leaders of Israel were not righteous in the sight of the Lord.  All besides about a half of a dozen did evil in the sight of the Lord.  Not many people are beter than their leaders.


I do agree that Israel's apostasy is like todays communities and leadership, not to mention churchianity as we know it.  There is in many instances of falling short.


The point being, there is nothing new under the sun.  We cannot find, from old testement examples, that the children of Israel were doomed to destruction or hell for eternity because they didn't measure up to the standard set before them. Sure, extreme measures were taken against them in this life and I am sure sanctions against them in the life to come. 


If you can't follow my train of thought in how God still permits those who have not measured up to still exist in His Kingdom to come, bear with me, 2 Tim 2.24, 25. Mercy is still to this day crying out against judgment.


I AM IN NO WAY, AND I WILL SAY IT AGAIN, I AM IN NO WAY ADVOCATING EVIL BEHAVIOR IN ANYONE.  Every transgression and disobedience will recieve its just repayment of what is deserved.




Maybe in the future, I will allude to the Judgment that is to come versus judgment that is happening now.


Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,


Hebrews 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of ETERNAL JUDGMENT.







NAME:: Brother Rowland

FROM:: Hate For Truth

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Such a hate for the truth. Go lay down Ken. This site will expose and has exposed the false communes connected to Daddy ralph.

Isn't that your problem Ken? Or are you so afraid to speak "Thus Saith The Lord'?

Or are you drinking from another bottle other than the wine of the spirit?

Talk to us Ken, let us know what has got you all upset so that you are damning us all into your private hell.

What a mess of people who Say they love God. Are you a Godly man Ken?

Or do you have a bone to pick about women staying at home instead of men.

Does your wife work full time and you are watching the children?

Let us know Ken, we will understand and pray that you get the order back right again, whatever it is.

Talk to me Ken. Or is this really a women using a man's name to post info???

Either way would you care to try again?

NAME:: Ken

FROM:: Regina, Canada

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Mike Rowland, Tim Butler, U can both go to hell

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Busy Bodies

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Mary Beth and Glen are finally free from that false support group. Kathy, Linda, and other women leaders of the group are worried about Mary Beth and Glen they say. These women run the group.

I (Mike Rowland) got calls from these women and when I spoke to them on other subject matter out of scripture that they did not want to hear, I could tell they did not want to listen to me.

The home groups are just as manipulative as the big corporate cHurch orders.

Men need to be in charge and this, they do not want to hear.

Mary Beth is the child of a Baptist minister so even though she does not follow many of the false doctrines of the Baptist sect, she has read the Bible for herself.

Now these women group leaders who had called me in worry for Mary Beth about mean ole Glen have changed the order and have invited Glen to their meetings and told Mary Beth she can not come.

Can we now see what this is really all about?

This is about who gets Glen. No one cares about Mary Beth and never did. 

Now I have said it and this is true. The group leaders actions are speaking very loudly, what they had originally said does not line up with what they are up to.

This is the same ole hat guys.


NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Dear Brad? Earned Status

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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I think I know you. You are the guy who was leaving the farm when I showed up in 1993 and didn't you change your name? No Matter, I am not trying to hurt you or anyone else.

All I am pointing out is that God is not going to permit you in if you are a practicing whore doggy. The only people who defend the practicing whore doggy's are those who repeatedly commit various similar sins, thinking they will still get into God's heaven.

This type of response that you are giving Sir is why God will cut America asunder her portion with the hypocrites. Now it would have been far different if you had answered me back that God will forgive a sinner who has repented.

No that is not what you are saying. 

 

Brad wrote: 

"You didn't earn your status to become a child of God and your best efforts don't keep your status as a child of God."

 

So I see from your statement (The spirit of your entire sentence) that we can not be lost if we are a child of God right? So people like ralph , other communal leaders and these next in command can practice sexual perversion year after year along side of many other OverlOrding spirits, while God still saves them for later.

Understand this, and I am not talking to just Brad here, God is not going to save you for later, that is, raise you up in the last day to have a whoredog run down the streets of gold continuing their same ole.

The heavenly city will be free of these dogs.

This life is the weeding out process or a separating from the evil and if people refuse to call an ace an ace then there is no way for them to change. 

Why is the word of God so hated today when it is quoted?

The word repentance is a strange word to the people of America. You can go down the street in the larger cities and see spray paint on the old building "Sinners Repent" in a mocking way just poking fun at the whole idea.

The arrogance of man just laughs at the thought and we have all found ourselves laughing along with them.

The word of God is God and God says to us in no uncertain terms to change our ways. This is yet another expression of repenting that those who say they love HIM should show their love through their actions of obedience.

The Word of God is looking for a broken and contrite individual who will beat on his chest like this:

Luke 18:  13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

This is not the case with the farms and their Mr big hot ass haughty leaders who hate a real preacher and refuse to repent. And they prove it every year by driving away a real manifestation of the preached word at their farms.

On the other hand Brad you are presenting these leaders before the Word Of God in the light that GOD must save them because they SAY they are Christians.

 

Saying don't make it so. They say and do not.

 

It's all about attitude, now look at this other guys answer:

Luke 18:11 The Overcomer leader stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Now Brad I am not angry with you and you have a right to your view. Just as I have a right to mine. But I am warning people everywhere that when you come before the Father in Jesus name, you had better do it right or He will not hear you.

And if He does not hear you, it is because the spirit of your prayer is false.

Basically I am saying that you are giving us the wrong answer for an approach to the Father. No one is more special than the next person, everyone is treated the same. 

If people sin, do not repent and are all fired arrogant about being told about their sins, that is a requirement by God's word, then they are lost and can not enter into the Kingdom.

What's so hard about that? No body knows will not work here or don't judge  is fool hearty since God will judge and his word has already Judged this whole issue.

If you want to be haughty about your religious views on what is required to enter into the kingdom, so be it, but you have been warned.

Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16 For I will not contend for ever,

Like Brother Bennett always use to say "No body Gets Away"

Americans think they are sooooo righteous. This is what I am getting from your post Brad. I am hearing how cock sure you are that God is going to save these people without them ever changing their worldly ways all without conscience. As they continue wildly in sins God must still save them for His heavenly City.

 

 

Thanks for sharing, Brother Mike

 



NAME:: Frank (Unshackled) 

FROM:: Popcorn profit, s.c

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The Wicked Wizard of Walterboro uses some heavy duty witchcraft to keep his thralls in a continual trance state, although all will claim, as we once did, that there is no brainwashing going on. It usually takes a few years for reality to completely break through the spell. The most important step is to admit that you were conned by the serpent.

Part of the brainwashing is the belief that if you don't believe Stair is God's prophet then you also don't believe that we are in the end times and that Jesus is coming soon. Just the opposite is true; Stair being a false prophet makes it even more certain that we are in the end time, as Satan's time is short.

Look here wolf, your party last night is over! Lets deal with the facts jack and stop moving to home field advantage where "a whole lotta group thinks goin' on". The rapture is something you believe in when destroying sisters lives, not the spiritual. You are a little bully popcorn pulpit profit! Did you live on "FIRE" street like your father the devil? Seems fitting when we are well able to put the pieces together that you "cain-not find".

 Remember he told us openly "if i were the devil, i'd affect the hearing"! Yes he does screech, repeat, peer pressure, group think, uses scripture against us, guilt, lets not forget food deprivation (very important and OFTEN OVERLOOKED), sex and lack thereof, control of everything including sex, marriage partners, courting, cronism, elder bribes, elevated profits, agree with me or flee, hypnotism, mind control, trauma based mind control, sleep deprevation, slave camp, good jobs vs bad jobs, public humiliation (even on air), lies about past statements, dumpster diving, profit sees, control of all outside contact, mail, phone, e-mail, etc., air conditioning for profit, telling us he's going to have sex tonight, profit knows all, God to profit and it's on a need to know basis! profit hears from God but slaves are no nothings who do what i say since i cut them off from everything, jobs, families, outside world, and don't disagree with last day profit running bare or the wolfman will cut you off too! That would be the best thing to happen to someone there!


NAME:: Brad (grapevine)

FROM:: Your No Different Than Ralph

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 Case dismissed... thats nice if your word is the last word...but most non naive persons know it isn't.  you couldn't bully me into a corner if you tried by just stating and quoting one passage.


What it looks like normally in differences is you'll have your opinions and i'll have mine.  But i can disagree with a person respectively.  If you force all to agree with you, your no different than Ralph and the lordship he continues in. 
I give God our Father more power in His mercy than most.  Do you want to know why?????  You didn't earn your status to become a child of God and your best efforts don't keep your status as a child of God.  You might want to look at the examples of parents on this earth....who keep loving their children despite their shortcomings.  And my point is, how much more Our heavenly Father.



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Overcomer Hell Ministry

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  I haven't found one thing good about the overcomer hell ministry compound.
 Unless you love sex, adultery, homosexuality and fornication then this is the place for you!  Mr. Stair has already admitted his homosexual tendencies to the dining hall crowd while I was there.
 But I, Dave Mull, never fit into that crowd.  Sorry to let you down, Mr. Stair.


NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Wells No Water

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Ralph has always used the word of God for his advantage so when ralph started his SC farm he began the corp. for the same reason he Pastored  up state, that being sex with all of the young girls.

God does not call people like this his children. No Brad, this is what God says about them:

2Pet 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

The other communities have all kinds of sins going on just like this and the "everybody does it excuse" prevails.

I know people from all of these communities who will back me up on the fact that the greater portion of these communities were fathered by ralph.

Need I say more? The proof is that they protect ralph and cover up what he has done, instead of exposing the unfruitful works of darkness, like true Christians.

Case dismissed!!


NAME:: Brad

FROM:: Grapevine

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

 It is amazing how ralph stair doesn't let his people leave the premises after they have handed over their finances to him and faith cathedral fellowship.
Maybe it has changed since the days i was apart of the ministry


I was also apart of dowells ministry (straitway) in Tenn., Dowell at least let people leave the property, whether a trip to the library or the local walmart.


I was also apart of roberts ministry (victory) in northern Sc.  His group was a little more isolated like Stairs.
 
I have also been to bakers ministry in Ky (upper room).


All the stories I could tell you all.  In all the stories, whether bad or good, it doesn't change the fact.  These leaders are all called of God, children of God, however mature or immature. 


God has to have a body that isn't corrupted by the world or dominant, lording it over the saints, called of God > ministries.  Taking the good and learning from it and discarding the bad.


I can definitely see some good in the overcomer ministry lifestyle and the other ministries aka communities AND I AM SURE MOST OF YOU CAN TOO >> that is why you went hopefully one day we find a balance.



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Never Fit In? (Response to Audio)

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Ok, Brother Mike;

 Mr. Stair states I "have never fit into the community".  Why then, pray to Jesus, did you keep us there for almost five years then Mr. Stair?  Funny, you sure wanted me around you when I helped you cover up your pornography web browsing tracks.  And why would you come up to me and give me a hug so often as you did?  You surely never counseled me saying I am disassociated with everyone else there!  It is only that I became fed up with your promiscuous behavior that you finally turned against me.  Not to mention you couldn't petition God to heal my Overcomer Hell induced Asthma.  I really doubt God ever healed anyone through your vain prayers.

 Now I understand why you would walk around the compound showing everyone how pious you are.  I am certain God speaks to you no longer.  Perhaps that is why all your prophesies are failed.

 I know why Mana and I never fit into your compound.  We are upright Christians and strive to obey the Word of God.  And don’t be stupid, Mr. Stair, and say we are perfect.  Mana and I are made perfect in Christ.  The spirit of lust at the overcomer hell compound is more than we could bear.  That is why your worshippers are following in your footsteps.  Ex: Robert Vargo having a baby to an 18 y/o virgin and out of wedlock.

 You mock God, Mr. Stair.



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: ralph's Sabbath Attack

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Dave Mull http://www.freewebtown.com/dedicated7/audio.htm the look for file Dave Mull2.mp3


 WOW!!! Brother Mike; do you hear the anger in Mr. Stair's spirit?  Just listen again and tell me that is a spirit of Christ?  I think not!
 I have to chuckle at Mr. Stair because he gave me an unsatisfactory reference and they never called me back for a job. Then the Lord blessed me with a job that pays $100,000.00/yr. instead of $11.50 job.  I would have been stuck in a dead end job if Stair hadn't lied on me.
 Go ahead Stair, mock on.  And thank-you again, Mr. Stair.
 God truly works in mysterious ways, doesn't he Mr. Stair?

 

NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: True Prophet's

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Prophet's Do Odd Things

 

Ezek 4:1 Thou also, son of man, take thee a tile, and lay it before thee, and portray upon it the city, even Jerusalem:
2 And lay siege against it, and build a fort against it, and cast a mount against it; set the camp also against it, and set battering rams against it round about.
3 Moreover take thou unto thee an iron pan, and set it for a wall of iron between thee and the city: and set thy face against it, and it shall be besieged, and thou shalt lay siege against it. This shall be a sign to the house of Israel.
4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.
5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.
6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.
7 Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it.
8 And, behold, I will lay bands upon thee, and thou shalt not turn thee from one side to another, till thou hast ended the days of thy siege.
9 Take thou also unto thee wheat, and barley, and beans, and lentiles, and millet, and fitches, and put them in one vessel, and make thee bread thereof, according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon thy side, three hundred and ninety days shalt thou eat thereof.
10 And thy meat which thou shalt eat shall be by weight, twenty shekels a day: from time to time shalt thou eat it.
11 Thou shalt drink also water by measure, the sixth part of an hin: from time to time shalt thou drink.
12 And thou shalt eat it as barley cakes, and thou shalt bake it with dung that cometh out of man, in their sight.
13 And the LORD said, Even thus shall the children of Israel eat their defiled bread among the Gentiles, whither I will drive them.
14 Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! behold, my soul hath not been polluted: for from my youth up even till now have I not eaten of that which dieth of itself, or is torn in pieces; neither came there abominable flesh into my mouth.
15 Then he said unto me, Lo, I have given thee cow's dung for man's dung, and thou shalt prepare thy bread therewith.
16 Moreover he said unto me, Son of man, behold, I will break the staff of bread in Jerusalem: and they shall eat bread by weight, and with care; and they shall drink water by measure, and with astonishment:
17 That they may want bread and water, and be astonied one with another, and consume away for their iniquity.

 

Nothing like the false prophet ralph running around finding some new sisters 

panties hanging on the laundry clothes line at his farm commune so he can stalk 

and track her down like the dog that he is. ralph falls into the pattern here as 

leaders who are full of evil shown as the abominations in the chamber of imagery.

 

ralph is the opposite of Ezek and other real Prophets in that ralph uses the word of 

God to trap his audience yet will never perform the message of the scripture he 

uses to profit from financially.

 

ralph and other false prophet's speak out on the Bible but are unable to do what is 

written concerning living the life of Holiness.

Notice in verse 14 how Ezek is repulsed by God's declaration to eat dung mixed in 

with good meal, stating that he has not eaten anything polluted.

This is the picture of Holiness of a true Prophet where as the unholy people eat

polluted bread their entire lives.

That is to say they eat the sweet word of God and continue in sin like ralph and all 

false prophet's or leaders.

Their are a great many other signs of a true man of God, Prophet or other offices.

 


NAME:: Brad 

FROM:: Grapevine

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    I hear Dave Mulls making general statements about self proclaimed prophets.  My question is which prophet is not self proclaimed.  The way I see it, being a christian has a certain amount of self - proclamation.  Someone of your peer group asks you a question and you proclaim - I am a Christian.  This reminds me of, they overcome by the word of their testimony.. I understand, that others in the body will have a witness to the office of a Prophet.  But the same goes for the False Prophets, many get the witness that these false Prophets are the true ones.  The standoff continues without clarification until Yah stands in the midst and brings judgment, similarly to the sons of Korah and Moses or Elijah and Ahab ie...
   I could understand, if Dave Mulls was asserting, that these bad characteristics are the traits of false prophets. And maybe that is what he was meaning. 
   We as the body of Christ have seen so many bad instances of prophets.  Just as we have TV personalities in the category of false evangelists, like Benny Hinn and Creflo Dollar and such, We are going to have bad examples in the area of sounding the trumpet and restoring the body of Christ from decay.
    This would be another good question? What is a Prophet's role?  What is a Prophets responsibility?  What are some characteristics of a Yah sent prophet?  I believe since there is so little clarification on the office of a prophet we have so misuse of the authority.  The Scriptures are loaded with those who were proclaimed prophets, from Moses, Elijah, and Jeremiah and such.  It amazes me the such little clarification exists. 
    Acts 13.1 says there were prophets in Antioch.  This indicates to me that the office didn't die away.  Of course there are many other instances of God making the offices of ministry apart of the Body of Christ.  Scriptures teach that the body of Christ is perfected with the 5 fold offices.  May God help us in understanding His Authorities in the Body.



NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Dearest Steve

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Let me explain what I mean about your site.

Let's say someone posts a link with a specific file that they want heard so they 

click on your link. Next they see 50-4000 choices. Which file is the one they were 

directed to hear? There are to many to choose from so they thrown up their hands 

and leave your site. I just think you can do better than that steve. You have shown 

all of us how we can barely keep you out of probably any website you want to 

hack so you should be able to perform this small task of making a simple link 

workable.

Again I will not forward links that are confusing and unproductive.

Thanks Steve for all your hard work, all I ask is for it to work so please finish the

job you started.

Your Bro....................



NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Joy's Of oppression

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Same ole ralph 

Mr stair could be civil but he has always displayed the spirit of sowing discord.

ralph loves to haggle and is what keeps him going. Without contention and bullying 

ralph would shrivel up and blow away. In essence ralph is the embodiment of  \

many lying spirits. Ralph appears as an angelic minister to one, while to yet 

another group he is coming on to as many young hot virgins as he can to gain  

unlawful entry. This solicitation to the girls at ralph's commune generally comes  

right in front of their parents and is a large part of the thrill of breaking and 

entering for stair.

This is ralph joy, loving to oppress and destroy without conscience.

So when ralph gets a phone call asking were you a good worker on his organic 

farm his answer might range from having never heard of you to he was worthless.

Right now ralph is afraid of someone trying to use their stay at his farm as some 

kind of advantage against him so instead of answering people properly that may 

call, ralph may act as if they are prying into his farm company affairs trying to 

make his corporate farm into some kind of a business.

So you see why ralph has changed after his last many court cases?



NAME:: M Rowland

FROM:: Steve Audio site

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hey steve

It has come to our attention in the last few years that you have an excellent aptitude for hacking into guest book sites of which you have repented.

 

Maybe you could divert some of those energies now to making your audio website work better. When I click Dave Mulls recent link all I get is gibberish.

When someone is directed to an entire site page to find one link they become exhausted to find the specific file and end of leaving without getting what they came for.

Like the rest of us site owners, like yourself we not only have to guard against people destroying our site but must learn good web hosting.

Thank you for your patience, we understand your struggle.

I will not force a listener to sort through many files to find the right one.

When I click the file  Dave posted one of my computers plays at high speeds, the other PC says this is a virus ridden file.

Try to repair this problem so people all around the world can quickly and easily access the audio.



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Mr. Stair Sabbath Service

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  LUST is one of the Deadly Sins which is manifested in Mr. Stair.  The entire compound is saturated with that spirit of Lust.  As I lived there at the Overcomer Hell Compound you were oppressed by that spirit of Lust.  Most of the Brothers were taken by Lust, hence, hearing and observing that spirit in them was with every encounter I came across.  Mr. Stair is taken by that spirit and this is why the spirit has free reign on the compound.
 Brother Mike, I have researched many other self-proclaimed prophets as you did, and they all have the same characteristics: LUST of the FLESH, POWER, MIND CONTROL, EVIL, ADULTERY, FORNICATION, COVETOUSNESS, FALSE WITNESS, NARCISSIST, OMNIPOTENT, LOVE of MONEY and DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR.  I'm sure I could go on, but I think you get my point.
 It comes down to; you either believe the Word of God or you believe man (Stair).
 I saw that spirit of Lust early in my 5 year tour.
 

Here is the clip in case you did not listen to Mr. Stair.

www.freewebtown.com/dedicated7/audio/dave_mull.mp3

NAME:: Brad

FROM:: Grapevine

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  I was reading Dave Mulls last post.  I thought to myself, how difficult it is to go through the job hunting process.  The employer makes one jump through hoop upon hoop in filling out an application.  Job history up to 7 years back in most cases, personal reference and many times financial records.  To top it off, you have Stair frustrating people who have to make an honest living out in the Babylonian American work system.  It is amazing, just to imagine hearing the chuckling of Stair and cronies when someone has to account for the time at the work farm in Canadys.
    Stair, said he had it hard in his early years, which could have been true, but he hasn't worked in a 40 hour per week job since his early years.  He is so disconnected with reality.  Sure, Stair is at least 76 now and I can't see him laboring much.  He has been running the Canadies    Our example of leadership in the Body of Christ, was the Apostle Paul.  He continually labored day and night and with great humility he would not be a burden on others even though he said he had the right. 



NAME:: Brother Rowland

FROM:: ralph's Job Reference

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hello David

I can sure understand how you feel when dealing with the demons living in ralph concerning money and jobs that people have that relate to money in ralph's mind.

The demon living in ralph manifest quite often and are a very remarkable group of spirits who can appear as perfect men on down to the filthy nitty gitty of lustful flesh. It can be confusing to know which pack of dogs one is dealing with when interacting with ralph in daily life as well as communication the outsiders may encounter. 

I think that once we understand the fact that ralph is channeling many spirits, it becomes easier to see through the deliberate attempts to anger and destroy the peace and tranquility of our lives.

These spirits can never get enough money or sex and will stop at nothing to steal what belongs to you and I.

You see religious groups all around the world are like ralph when dealing with money, because they serve MAMMON or money, Not God.

The lies taught today surrounding tithe shows that they love money and the lies they tell that brings them this power of money.

All Churches teach lies to bring them the power of Money and since these are demons we must realize that they are selfish, wanting all for themselves.

Oh they might make statements that seem to make them appear the opposite of money pigs, before the group, and even do little good deeds to be seen of men, but this is only their cloak, covering or mask.

Like ralph has pointed out, all of the large organized religions around the world are out for big money and the members love to commit adultery and fornication.

It is true and this is what draws men like ralph to religion with all of its lies.

The lying spirits know that once you have been tricked into one lie, they can get you on another. Those demons know that we as Christians were told not to follow a lying spirit so when we as God's people do that in the stumbling process of learning through hard knocks, that they are in the clear and the traps we got caught in are now our fault for not following the spirit of truth.

Welcome to channeling with snare.

May God help and bless your family Bro Dave Mull.  



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Overcomer Hell Ministry

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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  It has come to my attention that Stair has said recently I have used his name for a job reference.  And that I am placing "trash" about him on the internet!  Let me explain here now; Yes, Mr. Stair is trash, in fact he is garbage for committing explicit sexual acts not to be mentioned among true Christians, and without any remorse he continues adultry and fornication.
 When you fill out for a job application you must account for lost years ex: overcomer Hell ministry (which was a true waste of my life) and so now Stair is saying to everyone I put him down as a reference.  You LIE Stair, but then again what is new?  You love the father of lies, Stair.  I do not use any person for a reference unless I ask them in advance.
 I say the truth about Stair on The Net Team from my first hand experience with that snake. 
 I don't care if you take my name out of the Lambs Book of Life, try if you can Stair, you are a thief and a robber.
 Just goes to show you, Satan knows the Scriptures.  Don't you Stair???


NAME:: Judgment

FROM:: ISA

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22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
23 Thy tacklings are loosed; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided; the lame take the prey.
24 And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity.
34:1 Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it.
2 For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
3 Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood.
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.


NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: 10 Years Gone

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Yes we did do some good by helping detour a number of families and of course just because there is no good judgment in the land does not excuse us from reporting or warning anyway we can concerning the Overcomer trap. Money trap, teen girl trap, or any woman ralph wants to take. 

Like Bro Ray said about ralph's little speech on the way up to the bank in Walterboro to transfer Roberts other million dollars during the 2001 exodus ralph said "I could have any of those bank tellers I want" 

What I want to know is why Tim Cheek never mentioned that?

You see people in America do not believe that words have any meaning or power.

When men use words like that it shows they are nothing short of heathens. 

Surely not good qualifying leaders over God's flock. How people claiming the name of Jesus could ever get to where they think God's Prophet's can be worse than filthy dogs in their behavior and be Holy at the same time, is beyond me. 

Hardly anyone who has left these farms has even mentioned it to others for fear of being criticized for being ralph's zombie.

This also shows what they are all about.



NAME:: Tim Butler

FROM:: Mrs. Duval's Count

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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 Yes Mike, I did get in touch with the one asking about Glen. I have never heard of the man myself but we also must realize that in a couple of months it will be 10 years since we left the farm and I am sure many people that we have never met have been in and out of there.


I forget the count that Mrs. Duval came up with but in the time period between the time we all left and the previous 8 years something like 250 people came and went from Stairs.


You can be sure that many came and left after that and we can only hope that we had some small part in the awakening of many more who might have been suckered into going to Stairs sex farm.


I, like you have had many phone calls and e-mails from folks seeking help and while we can only do so much, we try to advise them the best we know how. I wish I could wave a magic wand and wake everyone up that lives with Stair but the truth is that only God can do that so we must continue to pray for everyone there that God would be merciful and wake them up.
God Bless
Tim


NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM::  Bitter Cup Ouch!!

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When we all consider the way this world is going it should be evident that the USA has never elected a president that ran the county, instead the people who are wealthy are running the show. 

The very rich have always used their money to make more because MORE of everything is the insatiable thirst that they have. More power, more for control and so on.

The very rich have always funded the worlds MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX as we see it today. By now everyone should be realizing that MONEY is what controls everything in our country and not goodness. Some good people TRY to change a few things around them from time to time when life's battles present themselves.

However these are only very small isolated instances leaving the larger majority of the entire world laying in the pool of wickedness. This evil does prevail for now as GOD Himself has allotted this time period as a way to expose  and separate the wheat from the tares.

As an American boy I believed the lie as each one of you have, that the USA is the superpower of the world and we the people vote into office good God fearing men. The mighty presidents we voted in all pray and serve Jesus is this Christian country.

This is delusional thinking. The whole reason for bringing this matter up is the fact that based on this type of thinking we all went to the magistrates and powers of the land to bring ralph stair to justice. Now like Tim has brought out, maybe some of the former followers are angry about the fact that because money rules and ralph gets away, they may reach the point of sin. We are told in scripture to BE ANGRY but not to sin, so this is a fine line we all must walk with evil everywhere.

Bitterness is toxic and destroys. It wants to get off onto everyone it touches to poison. When demons come to face off with you and I, they use the people you talk to on THE NET TEAM for instance to get things stirred up.

Demons use each one of us from time to time without us even knowing it.

It is only humility, a broken and sorrowful vessel that can admit this, leaving us needing God to save us out of the mess. As you become more exercised in your Christian life you will take every thought captive, comparing them with scripture and these demons will not just run over you all of the time, messing up things around you.

I think one big reason people get bitter is this delusional thinking I mentioned earlier where they think our Godly country is holy raised up to bring law and order. 

Then when the delusional order we see does not have any power of God to bring justice, bitterness comes to make people think there is no GOD.

Actually the God of this country looks to be the dollar to many. IN GOD WE TRUST right? on the money right?

Americans are arrogant and high minded status quo seeking they have never been drawn by the true spirit to understand who God is. Their God is their belly as listed in scripture or they serve themselves is another way of putting this.

We all work to provide for our own well being that is not what I mean when I state that Americans are selfish. The one big selfish behavior that ALL Americans exhibit is the respecter of persons sin. They are partial in their demonstration of blessing and cursing those around them. Black against white against the south and north against the yellow race against the polish against the mexicans and so on.

God hates them because they love this evil. FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD? And America's can not and will not even love back the ones who love them.

Bitterness will eat anyone's soul and if it does, then it is safe to say that it is because they are of this evil seed I have been painting the picture of.  

No one can save the root of bitterness or an evil seed.

The land is burned up with this bitter delusional lusts of the flesh just like God said it would be.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

This shows how few Christians that are left because the deeds of men are so evil that they can not keep from destroying those around them. Love will not kill those around them and this applies to killing or quenching the spirit of friendship first.

Americans are not friendly people as a whole, let alone caring about your well being. Trust me they are murders at heart. This is what the Lord says.

NAME:: Mike R.

FROM:: Tim B.

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hey Tim did you understand the past message below?

"ATTENTION Cynthia and Tim Butler"

 

Something about a marriage?

I guess at least some of the names mentioned on this website are considered to be  possible abuser in the minds of the average guy surfing the web.

I am bad with names and don't remember that Glen. Then the other communities had people come and go as well as ralph's farm.

So we are talking people coming and going over the last 18 years collectively all communes in the thousands.

I have had a dozen calls or more like this one in the last 10 years with people asking did I think this one or that one was at one of the farms or why do they go there and stay? How can we change their minds. How can we stop them from destroying their families and lives?

NAME::  Tim Butler

FROM:: Bitterness Exposing Stair

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 The video was a good one. I think it is funny though that rick ross's website was named and not mine www.truthaboutstair.com


Ralph will one day meet his maker and he will have alot to answer for on Judgment day. While I wish Hell on no one, I do know that without a full and meaningful repentance R.G. Stair will lift his eyes up there one day.


Beware of bitterness brethren! Nothing is wrong with exposing Stair and warning others but do not let a root of bitterness abide within you!


Blessings
Bro. Tim


NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Community Dogs

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Hello All

I have been receiving telephone calls off and on lately where people ask me if I ever lived at the farm. During our talks I have learned various things concerning the lack of repentance on the part of the leadership at ralph's other communities.

According to several reports I have gotten James Baker still calls ralph "THE PROPHET" he has a farm in KY. Then there is a preacher Rice out in Oklahoma and this man says ralph is still God's spokes man, a Holy Man.

Scripture tells us as leaders in THE CHURCH OF JESUS to elevate men to high positions based of their proof of a good example. Men who are living adulterous lives for an untold  number of years like ralph are the wrong choice for heads over God's flock.

Any man putting his hands all over as many teen girls as possible especially sneaking around at night with no explanation why is not a CHRISTIAN MAN.

Any other man saying that this type of adulterous action found in the CHURCH OF JESUS still qualifies another leader to remain in high position as overseer of the flock is a blind dog and does not know who God is anymore than the adulterous renegade running from house to house playing with silly women.

This is what the Lord says or THUS SAITH THE LORD.

I have to put it this way because most of the people alive today do not know what God really says about most things since all that they know of God, they have been taught by men like ralph stair mostly for the wrong reasons.

NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Tom's Video

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  Yes Mike! That was a great video.  A guy named Tom made it and sent it to me.
 Thanks so much Tom!


NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Old Ralph Hat

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hello Dave M.

Great Video, it made me think about Mrs Bonner (Gramma Bonner in OHIO) and how when I called her to let her know what had been going on around the year 2000 at ralph's farm, she let me know all about what she had witnessed years before.

For instance in Delaware County newspapers stair had tricked many people out of their belongings using the end of this worlds system by 1988 leaving Jesus in charge to set up HIS kingdom.

She sent me a huge stack of articles  and I copied them and sent them back.

In those days in the 1980's many people were becoming aware daily of ralph's tactics to con men out of their living, demand leader worship and suffer being cast out of ralph's Kingdom. The larger portion believing that they were being cast out of THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

Same ole dirt different day I guess we might say.

This is a money laundering operation using the trickery or a religious pedestal to command obedience regardless of the short comings of those in charge.

ralph gets his jollies from having people give everything to overcomer corp and further proceed to lick his boots off through the whole process.

ralph has a thus saith God damning behavior that sends most to their knees begging forgiveness. With one knee rising from the floor of repentance the follower must show good faith relinquishing all property and possessions.

Larry Streesy(40's yrs old)  was so upset with being cast out and brought back to the farm he had a stroke in transit. Time would fail me to give any of you even a close approximation as to what I witnessed over a period of time beginning 1993 to 2011.

Nice video Dave, it shows how men like ralph can run on for a long time run on for a long time run on for a long time, sooner or later..............................................................................



NAME:: Dave Mull

FROM:: Video About Stair

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  Another very good video about Stair!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quW8Sc9f-XQ&feature=email


NAME:: G. Morrison

FROM:: ATTENTION Cynthia and Tim Butler

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 ATTENTION Cynthia and Tim Butler: I am seeking information about a man named Glen Kleisley from Oklahoma. I am concerned because my ex-wife is going to marry him in 6 days and I'm worried about my 11 year old daughter. My ex-wife met him on the internet, has seen him only once, and has in the last 2 weeks let him move in with her and my child. When I googled his name The Net Team came up with information about his past wives and his possible involvement in the overcomers ministry. He lived in N.C. as well and I need to find more information about this man for the sake of my daughter's safety. I read the posts by Cynthia and Tim Butler: Could you please email me or call and help me with any info on Glen Kleisley? gmorr1261@yahoo.com or 423-991-1306. Thank you so much and God Bless.

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Isis Mary Madonna

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This is the Madonna Worship and how the Catholics justify their religion. In one breath the writer states that the Catholics do not worship Mary in the new age version and in the next sentence Mary is the greater fulfillment of all previous mother Goddess worship.

Total Confusion coming right out of Egypt and Babylon. The writer tells us where Mary Madonna worship originates and preceeds to say it is not worship.

Another way we know that the Catholics worship Mary (when they SAY they don't} is that Jesus is not the focus of prayer to God. Mary is the mediator in the Catholic religion just as Isis was thousands of years before.

The point is that this is a very old religion, well before Jesus came to die for the sins of the world.

Here is a Catholic Quote:

"Hail Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope."

From this we can see Jesus is not a Catholics hope, Mary is their hope. Scripture is clear that Jesus is our hope if we are to be resurrected.

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http://www.brogilbert.org/christ-culture/2christ_isis-mary.HTM

In ancient Egypt Isis is the great Mother-goddess, giver of life who encompassed every living creature. "Isis is viewed as the protector and patron of women. Isis guided women in childbirth, marriage, and in the loss of loved ones. She has the qualities that endear her to women of all ages. Isis is full of compassion, tenderness, love and devotion. Isis is the Great Mother Goddess." She was called many names, Moon-goddess, The Great Lady, The Queen of Heaven, Mother of god, etc. In funerary prayers she was regarded as the giver of life and food to the dead.

Now Egyptian converts to Christianity must have noticed a relationship between the attributes given to Isis and the developing attributes given to Mary. We know that the Litany of Loretto was finalized in the Middle Ages but did Europe know about Isis? Even before the Christian Era, the cult of Isis was found in many places of the Roman Empire which persisted till 312 A.D. when Christianity was made the official religion of the Roman Empire. (Webpage: Isis "Regina Caeli") Further, Monasticism began in Egypt and spread to Europe. Coptic monks must surely have brought some Egyptian literature with them. So it seems evident that titles given to Isis were known in Europe.

Likewise, Egyptian Art must have influenced the iconography of Mary.

Isis in Egyptian art is many times portrayed nursing the child Horus. "It is widely recognized by scholars that Isis and Horus were the model for image of Mary and Jesus, and the 'Black Madonna' images probably derived from Black Isis (Isis was often depicted wearing black robes, symbolizing mourning and the quest for Osiris). Some of the black robes statues of Isis were even used by Christians as images of the Madonna."

The following reflects what the devotees of Isis hoped for.

"But she[Isis] was everlastingly, to her fervent devotees, the blessed goddess who was herself all things and who promised: 'You shall live in blessing, you shall live glorious in my protection; and when you have fulfilled your allotted span of life and descend to the underworld, there too you shall see me, as you see me now, shining ... And if you show yourself obedient to my divinity ... you will know that I alone have permitted you to extend your life beyond the time allocated you by your destiny.' Isis, who overcame death to bring her lover back to life, could as readily hold off death for her faithful followers, for the all-powerful Isis alone could boast, 'I will overcome Fate.'" (Webpage:Isis)

CONCLUSION

When all is said and done, Isis is a mythological figure belonging to the pagan world view of many gods and goddesses. She was the personification of the forces of nature, a vehicle of expression for Egyptian hopes and fears and nothing more.

Mary is the reality. Through her the Egyptian longings of the human heart are brought to realization. She is truly the Mother of Life in the supernatural sense because she brought into the world the Lord of Life. We turn to her with our petitions knowing that God hears her because she is His Beloved. She is not a goddess but a creature highly graced by God to whom belongs the dignity to be the Mother of God and the power associated with it.

Hail Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope.

Christ in Greece



NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: MOM  GODDESS  LIST

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http://www.goddess.ws/

Goddess forms are many and beautiful
Goddess as creatrix of the universe
Aphrodite - Greek Goddess of Love and Beauty
Artemis - Greek Goddess of Hunting and Vegetation
Athena - Greek Goddess of Wisdom and War
Ceres - Roman Goddess of Agriculture
Demeter - Greek Goddess of Agriculture
Devi - Hindu Goddess of Existence
Diana - Roman Goddess of Hunting
Durga - Hindu Goddess that Destroys Demons
Gaia - Greek Goddess as Mother Earth
Ha Hai-i Wuhti - Hopi Divine Mother
Hecate - Greek Goddess of Magic
Ishtar - Babylonian Goddess of War
Isis - Egyptian Goddess
Juno - Roman Goddess of Women
Kali - Hindu Goddess of Liberation
Kuan Yin - Buddhist Goddess of Compassion
Lakshmi - Hindu Goddess of Prosperity
Minerva - Roman Goddess of Arts
Mother Mary - Christian Goddess of Compassion
Persephone - Greek Goddess of the Underworld
Sarasvati - Hindu Goddess of Knowledge and Arts
Shakti - Hindu Goddess of Primal Energy
Tara - Tibetan Goddess of Compassion
Venus - Roman Goddess of Love and Beauty


NAME:: Florida Reader

FROM:: Mary's Savior

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Form Florida Reader In Luke 1 We read what Elizabeth said, however 5 verses later Mary herself claimed GOD as ~~ HER OWN Savior~~ ....




And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:


 42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
 43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
 44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
 45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.


 
46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,


 47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.


 48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.


 49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.


 50And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation.


 51He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.


 52He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree.



We need to read scriptures for ourselves, and need to know the definitions to words used in error by false religions and false leaders ... Amen...


The HOLY GHOST will help with the rest, if they ask, seek and knock...


We are all learning... Maybe this soul and others will be blessed by what is being revealed here today, this is my prayer...



NAME:: Kansas Sister

FROM:: Sorting Out Emotions

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 Thank you bro. Mike and the Net team for this site.
After years I am still having trouble sorting out my emotions. Maybe someday I will write a testimony about my relationship with the Overcomers. Not yet.


I pray that someday Stair will repent.  God used Stair so mightily to bring me to repentance, I pray the same for him.  I thank God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit for sparing my family from this hideous calamity, as we were followers (stupid sheep) for several years.


  Thank God for his Grace and Mercy and Longsuffering.  I am free to serve the Lord!!!!!


NAME:: M.Rowland

FOR::  R.I.Catholic

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Hi Florida Reader

The Rhode Island Catholic only prays to Mary repetitiously you know "Holy Mary Mom of God"? They only venerate not worship HUH?

Venerate not worship and just pray to HER (Mary) HUUMM??? 

This is the Catholic mental ability on display after they get done.

This is confusion. The Catholics boast that they can brainwash all of their flock to the point that those poor souls will be forever an eternal Catholic. 

Screw the Bible is your approach, is this plain enough for you holier than thou delusional half wits? Go ahead just throw God's word away and see what it will cost you.

I am angry with these demons and I know God is going to keep HIS word, not that trashy word from the unholy Pope.

You milk toast sucking spiritually worthless religious form practicing scaredy cats need to stop following the every bodies doing it philosophy and find a life in Christ.

Mary is Dead. Christ is alive forever more.



NAME:: Florida Reader

FOR:: Rhode Island Catholic

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 "Venerate"  means  ~~ Worship ~~

   Synonyms: adore, deify, glorify, revere, reverence, worship.



NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM:: Rome's 7 Hills

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So much for the Catholic Mother and Baby Worship thing. It's been there dating back for thousands of years. The Bible is clear in Revelation how the Roman Catholic system with the POPE as the false prophet is Mystery Babylon.

She is the Mother wOoden cHurch of Harlots,  AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

This simply means that all of the other off shoots of the Catholic who protest various ideologies within the same frame work of  the Roman Catholic system. 

The Protestants are a lot like the Mother organization they protest.

The is the reference "Mother Of Harlots"

When men are directed to serve money and taught that this is the way to God, one word sums up the whole situation, ABOMINATION.  

NAME:: Violating Of Men

FROM:: Catholic Gays

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Oh one more thing on Catholic Priest's

When I was a paper boy I delivered the Pontiac Press to two Catholic Priest was lived together as a gay couple. They told all of us boys in the hood that they were to only men able to correctly interpret scripture concerning subject we asked them about.

For instance the Mary thing and Praying to HER.

These Priest said that we should never try to read the Bible without someone to lead us into the truth on any of this subject matter. 

Never mind that the scripture says that the SPIRIT will lead and guide us into ALL truth, these guys handed us one line after another and lived the high life in one of the richest parts of the world in the 1960-1970's.

These men taught that they were to pray to Mary and once again it goes like this..................................................

Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray for Us Sinners NOW and at the hour of our DEATH. Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray for Us Sinners NOW and at the hour of our DEATH. Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray for Us Sinners NOW and at the hour of our DEATH. Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray for Us Sinners NOW and at the hour of our DEATH. Holy Mary Mother Of God Pray for Us Sinners NOW and at the hour of our DEATH.

And on and On and On with their vain repetition, of which the scripture plainly shows is the wrong way to approach the ALMIGHTY.

For crying out loud just talk normal HE (GOD) made your ear and can hear and eye and can see. No problems. Don't treat HIM like HE is millions of Light Years away.

God Is with you and in you. Your spirit is HIS candle searching around inside of your being. Let HIM shine on you and you will never be the same.

Pray in Jesus name and see the difference today.

 

NAME:: True Colors

FROM:: Catholic System

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REV 17:

#1 MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

#2 I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

#3  The seven heads are seven mountains (Of Roman), on which the woman sitteth. (Catholic Popes ID)

#4 I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy,

#5 Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore

#6  for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

#7  the false prophet (POPE) that wrought miracles before the beast system will be cast into the lake of fire.

#8  great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

The Catholic crusades proved throughout time that the Catholic religion says one thing and does another. She is a religious whore and liar.

Some good Catholics don't understand this and think everything they are taught is just fine. Scripture Identifies the Catholic Pope's head quarters in Rome by John the Revelator. It is still the same today.

We are seeing a revival, some say, of Rome, but that empire has never really left.

Most people live their lives like "While in Rome do as the Romans do" they just roll with it. Whatever they are told just roll over, everyone is doing it this way.

(Not Mary) Jesus said, few there be that find the straight and narrow way leading to life everlasting so this leaves the Catholic system completely out of the picture as the Catholic followers rank on up into the billions.

I can not save a Catholic, God will have to do that if they so desire to repent for their sins of religious perversion such as praying to Mary who was nothing more than a sinner like the rest of us who need Jesus Christ to get into the presence of GOD.

Mary was a sinner that's all, just like you and I. Mary had to repent of her filthy sins like all those born into sin or under the curse of sin, she never claimed to be a savior or mediator.

 

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Lady Luck (R.I.C)

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Dear R.I.C. or Rhode Island Catholic

The Romans (Catholics) killed Jesus and had their Mother and Baby religion before Christ showed up. They didn't like Jesus messing their Mother worship up/

I have researched all of my life as I am a minister age 54 years. None of the religions you see out here in the world today serve God. They serve money.

I am glad you want to give Rhode Island, and claim to have a giving heart, but this does not remove your battle with false doctrines that can damn the soul.

Your final statement sums it up 

You want Mary and telling me Good Luck with Jesus.

You want Mary not Jesus.

You need Jesus and Mary was never a means to God at least according to Jesus.

In Fact Jesus is the only way to God. Mary is not a Goddess Mother of God.

Looking back into the history of the Catholic Church shows us that this Mother and Baby religion has been there for thousands of years and before Christ.

So you see I have looked into this matter. Please do the same and it will become evident that you have been lied to. In a nut shell.

The Catholics (ROMANS) simply transferred the names of Jesus and Mary to continue their religious practices of old on into the modern day. 

Catholic Priest are left without wives to be holy and a huge percentage end up being gay. These are only the tip of the ice burg of false doctrines pouring out of this unholy religious order.

Forbidding men to marry to be holy is disorder and against the teachings of the Bible. Almost all of the most powerful men used to work the power of God had wives.

The Catholics breed the gay lifestyle and over time have stooped to the level of sex with little tiny boys. 

This little boy sex scandal is common in the ranks of the Catholic order and these men are above the law of the land. They are and have been getting away with it for centuries. The Pope protects these offenders.

My final word to you (Rhode Island Catholic)  is "good luck with the Mary religion" however I would never normally use the term "Luck" because Lady Luck has nothing to do whatsoever with true Holiness in Christ. (Not Mary)

Don't be afraid to give your name and do a little research on this and we will see you when you get studied up, Oh if you have the time.

NAME: Rhode Island Catholic

FROM:: Bashing The Virgin 

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reply to Mike Mr. Rowland, my post stands on its own merits.
Instead of replying in kind to the content of my
post, you chose

#1. to bash the Virgin Mary, and the
oldest Church in Christianity for venerating her.

#2. Not worshiping, venerating.

Anyway, I have not the time to debate you on this matter, perhaps
you are capable of truly researching it on your own.

Good luck with your life and walk with Jesus.


NAME:: M. Rowland

FROM:: False Religion

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Holy Mary Mother of God? Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death? 

Holy Mary Mother of God? Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death?

You see I have been to the Catholic cHurches and they are against the teachings of Christ, just like ralph.

I asked a Mexican fellow one time why he went to Mary first instead of Jesus who is the only mediator between God and man?

The Mexican replied

"Well I think it is easier to go to Jesus Mom first for support so we pray to her."

I told him Mary was dead and that God forbids the living to try to communicate with the dead in anyway. I told him this is cultic to pray to the dead.

Then some Catholics claim that they are not praying to Mary rather they are praying to God in Mary's name. I tell them we are to pray to God in Jesus name.

Holy Mary Mother of GOD??????? Mother of GOD?????

No there is no mother of God, God is without end or beginning.

THE ROMAN CHURCH OF UNIVERSAL (CATHOLIC) RELIGION IS JUST AS FALSE AS ALL OF THE REST OF THE STUFF WE SEE TODAY CALLED GOD.

I am glad for whatever the reason was that Rhode Island Catholic did not get involved with another false teaching. However I must point out that though ralph does not teach properly in many areas, ralph does not teach to pray to Mary.

However ralph teaches he does not follow his own instruction.

Total confusion rules religious thought today.

Confusion is Babylon. Babylon is confusion.

We are living in the time period where Mystery Babylon the Mother of Harlots is working Her miracles to deceive. Many are following Her and are swallowing the strong delusion hook line and sinker.

NAME:: Strong Catholic Plus

FROM:: Appeal From Rhode Island

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Appeal to shut him down. 

I just wanted to say that I feel sympathy for those of you who were under the evil spell of this man. We should pray for those whom are still living there
on his sick little plantation. I often listened to Stair on short wave late at night, from the 90's til recently; being 2011 now. 

My strong catholic upbringing and knowledge (not only catholic, but any sound christian roots) protected me from Stair's heresies. Mostly I listened to him for entertainment, not guidance. His last day message is of course a most important and vital part of Christianity.

The problem with Ralph is that he marketed this message, and ignored many of the teachings of Christ and His Apostles.

The man is mentally ill and dangerous. You should all be contacting the    short wave stations and satellite providers who keep his act going, and tell them    to stop providing broadcast services to the Overcomer (Ralph's misuse of this   Holy word is both ironic and sad, and manipulative).

You surely have a legal case to ban him.


NAME:: Rowland

FROM:: Jones Landry Bell Vargo

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       Yeah Well

Everybody does it is the philosophy at ralphy's farm. If he ain't  chasin the teen girls up past their 20' sand 30's he is doing another session of damage control in the dinning hall.

Trying to get all of his stuff shirt brown nosing Pablo eating cronies to swear on a stack of Bibles that ralph can put a ring in their ear-nose or anywhere else as a sign that no matter what sin ralph commits, they will always be there to cover it up so the world never really knows who and what ralph is all about.

Timothy Jones and Chip Landry  have both pledged their lives this way so if ralph sodomizes the entire camp they have to stay and lick off ralf's boots to stay tight with the ALMIGHTY.

Fools and Blind.

So you see like ralph always says when he gets caught once again that he is not the only one in this ordeal. Others are doing it to, you know Everybody does it?

When ralph passes from this world of old age, the spirit of the farm will go on just like it is, because this is what the others have promised.

Demons control the men at the farm. They think they are spiritual. They are spiritual cowards. The whole lot of them flock to one another and plot against those who will not go with peer pressure manipulation.

The fire will soon fall of that evil trap.

NAME:: Charles (New Jersey)

FROM:: RG-Pig-Liar Devourer

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The bottom line is RG Stair is a Con-Man.

He is a smooth-talking snake-in-the-grass who is a master at manipulating weak-minded and easily led people.

His game is always the same. Lure them in, control their thoughts by guilt tripping and browbeating and intimidation, get them to sign their money away to him, allegedly engage in adulterous un-natural relations, if they complain tell them their going to hell for 'offending or questioning the prophet' and if they still complain kick them out without a penny to their name and lure new 'followers' into the trap.

RG Stair is a liar and a devourer of peoples substance and lives.

He is a slave and tool of fleshly lusts of several deadly kinds of sins.

He's a pig in a mud pit, and you know what happens if/when you get in the mud with a pig! End of story.



NAME:: Gravpevine (Brad)

FROM:: Admonishment

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Hey Mike,
 I appreciate your admonishment, it really showed some of the love of
Christ in you.
 

 Mike wrote:
 "Start asking God for direction and little things to establish a
connection with HIM in the spirit, is my recommendation. Then You and I can
be used for greater things."
 

  Job 23:8 Behold, I go forward, but he is not there; and backward, but I
cannot perceive him:
 Job 23:9 On the left hand, where he doth work, but I cannot behold him: he
hideth himself on the right hand, that I cannot see him:
 Job 23:10 But he knoweth the way that I take: when he hath tried me, I
shall come forth as gold.
 

  One of my favorite verses concerning how God speaks and how we hear are
out of the book of Job.
 

  Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not.
 Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth
upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;
 Job 33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,
 

  The rest of that chapter is really a blessing.  Another blessed chapter
for those being tried by fire is Lamentations 3. Let me give you a few
famous verses but the whole chapter is a blessing.
 

  Lamentations 3:22 It is of the LORD's mercies that we are not consumed,
because his compassions fail not.
 Lamentations 3:23 They are new every morning: great is thy faithfulness.
 

 Keep striving for the prize of the high calling of the most high.....
 Love in Christ
 Brad aka Grapevine



NAME:: Steve (Canada)

FROM:: Run On Ralph Stair

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The days of r.g. stair are numbered. You can take that to the bank. his god told him

he wouldn't see his 60th birthday his god told him he wouldn't see his 70th birthday

ralf can run on for a long time run on for a long time

Sooner or later our God gonna cut him down

NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: New Wine

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Hi Grapevine

I agree with you all of the way. As the days grow darker the lying signs and wonders performed by the demons presence in bodily form, the balance of power will come. The Lord may wait for a time so as to fulfill the other part of His word where brothers and sisters are beheaded for the witness of Christ but there will be those who can not be killed no matter what weapon in formed against them.

This in order for some to still be standing when HE comes to the Mt of Olives to set up His RULE.

We all need to be ready for anything as we all are going to enter into great tribulation.

Start asking God for direction and little things to establish a connection with HIM in the spirit, is my recommendation. Then You and I can be used for greater things.

Greater Love hath no man than to lay down his life for his friends so remember that FATHERS that the greater thing may require us to protect and cover for the FLOCK. This in turn creates a greater risk.

The powers that run the world today hate Judea-Christian-USA and serve  Molech.

These dogs want your blood if you are a Holy Man or Woman.

The Power of the spirit to do whatever God requires is wonderful.

No Problem, No worries and No static at all.

If any of you doubt just goes read the description of Jesus in Revelation where when HE comes His eyes are like a flame of fire and how He has a warriors Vest dipped in blood. 

Jesus is hear now in flesh as well as the fact He will come back in a bigger way at the end to set up HIS kingdom.

Stop practicing pagan festivals, break off with the world and the lusts of frivolous things.

NAME:: Gravevine

FROM:: A New ministration

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Truely God has numbered the days of men like
Ralph Stair. God can't have a pure bride with leaders beating up His flock.
Stair doesn't claim to be a pastor, but he doesn't permit anyone else to be
one either.  All of the so called pastors Stair supports are his "yes men".
These are men who aren't allowed nor strong enough to speak the truth in
love concerning Stairs sins.
 

Jeremiah 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep
of my pasture! saith the LORD.

Saying nothing and allowing this man to be a tyrant like King Saul only
shows that they are thieves and robbers like Jesus spoke of concerning those
who don't go through the way of Christs Character and Motives.

 John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door
into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and
a robber.

 John 10:8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the
sheep did not hear them.

 John 10.8 also has the meaning of, all who substitute a way besides me are
thieves and robbers.

 Isn't that what men like Ralph Stair are doing, promoting there own and
loving to have the preeminence.

 3 John 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the
preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

 3 John 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he
doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith,
neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that
would, and casteth them out of the church.

  Many have rose up to be a tool of God and proclaim to Stair the err of
his way, but to no avail.  He viciously attacks them and drives them away,
speaking all manner of evil against them.

 A man of God would proclaim the truth of how to be set free from the works
of evil and not make excuses for practicing it or justifying themselves or
failing to permit reproof.

Jeremiah 23:22 But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my
people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil
way, and from the evil of their doings

 2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle
unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

 2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if
God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the
truth;

 A New ministration of Spirit is coming to the Wilderness, New Wine in New
Vessels.  A Time of Refreshing, when men of God are meek and lowly and in
humility of the fear of God serving the Body of His Son.

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Father Of Lies

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 What ralph does is he preaches about 80% truth and mixes it in with 20% lies (like his father).


Mike is right don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.


In other words if the devil tells you the truth, believe the truth and reject the devil.


ralph tells lies lives lies and is of the father of lies

                                          

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Hold Fast

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Yes very good David

The scriptures say that the spirit that attacks us come from with inside the camp so ralph fits the bill to a tee. Just a phony copy, kind of close and denying God is his works.

Many who have lived with ralph had that same attitude where they talk nice on the surface but when they are tested, their true nature comes out. The other halve are Godly. The ones who are still there after all that has been discovered concerning ralphs lifestyle begs the question as to who's children they are.

God tells us to depart from evil and hold fast to that which is good regardless of who it comes from.

Reading your Bible is going to change you forever David.

 

                                          

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  I beat myself

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  Well said, Brother Mike.
Everything in moderation.  Unlike Mr. Stair, fulfill your lust because "God will forgive me".  Goes to show you how stupid Mr. Stair is.
 I can't believe how stupid I was to believe Stair has the authority to change the Word of God.  I beat myself up everyday for falling for his lies.  I now study the Bible daily with prayer and oh how God's Word is opened up to me now like never before.
                                          

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Exact Opposite

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Hi David

The thing that these guys like stair do it to take the bad of television or the bad of doctors and make them into all bad with no good at all to them.

As a for instance, I would never go to a doctor to get Prozac because I got upset over the news in the paper. You know get some drugs to feel good.

However the other day my son had an accident and cut his hand between his thumb and first finger to the bone. The guts were hanging out. He needed first aid and while I could have sown him up with fishing line, I took him to a local attendant, where Jordy could get some pain killers injected all around the cut.

The boy watched while the tiny pin pricks entered his skin all around the cut, to slightly deaden the area to be stitched back together. Like I said, I could have done it myself while the area was numb but instead I went to someone who does this every day.

As far as letting a TV run in my home, unchecked? I do not think you are doing that. Network TV has good and bad but the big problem with them all is the commercial programming attack on our minds. 

It use to be cigarette commercials and beer but the trend basically has stayed the same conditioning the USA to want the latest things THEY want to sell.

You do not have children either David so the soaps and sitcom's are not running wide open at your house as this stuff is in the average AMERICAN'S home.

Billions are spent annually on commercial advertising to sway our minds. One big message today is gay, bisexual and unisexual acceptance.

Almost every person in the USA knows that CNN and FOX news almost never tells the truth.

One big issue as Christians that we deal with is taking our thoughts captive and with the flood of lies coming across the TV set, this becomes a losing battle, left unchecked.

ralf also says that Jesus saves but I can not throw the baby out with the bath water here, because I believe Jesus is coming, not because ralph said so.

Consequently doing the exact opposite of what ralph says is not an across the board good idea, although some may have to start there to overcome their fears.

 

 

                                          

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  Exact Opposite

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  I have a Television in my home with satellite.  Go ahead and judge me, you Hypocrite!
 

  I have recently learned not to believe anything Mr. Stair says, but to do the exact opposite in order to save my soul from Hell.
 

  And as for not going to the Doctor?  My wife and I would have been dead three times over had we not gone to a Doctor for medicines and simple procedures.
 

  I know Mr. Stair pockets money on a daily account.  He is always pulling out wads of money from his pocket and waving it in from of us in the dining hall, as well as his $100,000.00 credit limit credit cards.  Mr. Stair has so many credit cards they don't all fit in his pocket.  And with all the goods he buys, he needs them to sustain the sex farm.  So, go ahead and send Stair all your monies.

                                          

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Thanks Bravo

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Hey Thanks-A-Million Grapevine

The man tradition thing was escaping me for a moment but Glory to God you reminded me of all of those Xmas programs coming from Wilkerson who claims to be so deep in the spirit. Being deep in the spirit means people know God.

People who know God don't practice pagan unHolidays like fertility bunnies and Saint Nick day.

Wilkerson like all of the big name preachers profess to know God but in their works they deny HIM. Like you pointed out Grapevine, I get a nauseating feeling chanting Hoe Hoe Hoe who wouldn't Know up on the house top click click click and package it all up in a baby manger scene. Oh yeah pass the hat time is next.

TOTAL CONFUSION!!

Wilkerson made void the commandments of God with the ordinary traditions of men. I'll bet Wilkerson got some big offering on halloween-allsaints day services.

The people won't stand for a preacher speaking out against their man made traditions. Oh well it was good money for the church business, who cares what God wanted huh?

And those hours of hypnotic songs are great as long as the leaders are telling the men to cut their long hair and quit drinker all that beer. Oh and the ladies need to stay at home and take care of their babies. Oh no he did not. They have known gays in their church and say very little about it.

I guess I am just to old fashion. My Mumma  left when I was a kindergartener and God replaced her with a woman from Kentucky. We called her Mrs.Cooper but her first name was ELDY she was near to the heart of God. She started raising me in her late 70's I think 76-77 years old. I learned from her things no one else could teach me who was around at the time.

She had a horse and buggy she talked about when she was younger and would be 120 years old today if she were alive. I went to see her on her death bed at a hospital home and she could smell smoke on me. She made me feel so ashamed of myself and I WAS A GROWN MAN THEN.

Thank God for my shame and that she could get me to know right from wrong so today I could be right with God. I just don't see that shame amongst the ranks today, everyone is so super spiritual and arrogant. This is very bad for their souls. They need shame it they are going to be able to come to God.

Thank you God for ELDY COOPER.

She taught me playing cards was a bad thing because she had heard how people shot one another over them in the 1800-1900's. We never understood that till later.

Many things I can not explain, but she instilled her character into us.

It was the power of God to convert the soul.

My real mom was only a teenager(16) at the time of my birth so she was to young and went with another man and in those days girls who did not have good money coming in had to give custody to the father who was the bread winner.

Over the years we had some substitute  sitters on occasion. They were generally 50-80 years old. Mrs Cooper had taken a vacation and we had someone temporary.

I learned right then that age had nothing to do with anything. These other sitters were telling us dirty jokes and stories all day long. When Mrs Cooper came off her break she got the whole story right at the dinner table. 4-6 different potty mouth sitters had proven to me that most people were just plain lewd. This was Detroit.

Mrs Cooper on the other hand, had taught me the 23rd Psa.

She never went away after that till I was a young man of 12 years, she even spent everything she made working to care for us on better furniture.

She has treasures beyond measure in heaven and am forever in her debt.

She was a manifestation of Jesus in flesh.

Any preacher who does not tell their flock who are women to stay home and care for the children are dogs. Instead all these big churches have day cares to make it easy for the women of abandon their babies while the church business rakes in the big bucks.

Not long ago a day care attendant forgot the infant child was still in it's car seat in the burning hot sun. It roasted to death right here in Kansas. This happens all of the time and these modern women still continue to rebel.  They have so many kids to look after at these day care centers and they are only thinking about the money end of it.

God has invested much into my spiritual education and I will do what he says and go where he sends me. I am nothing without HIS care and help to recover me from this vile fleshly world.

In His Service, Brother Mike

 

 

                                          

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Greedy Fingers

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When stair checks the mail his greedy fingers scan each letter for cash.


If no cash or offering each letter is quickly discarded.


his god is a dog.
                                   

NAME::  Tim Butler

FROM::  Missing Money

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 Dave Mull wrote
"There has always been missing money at the sex farm for as long as I have lived there."


True bro. Dave! My wife used to work in the office helping Margaret Morroto out when things were really busy and saw Stair taking cash out of a letter and putting it in his pocket. Pearl asked Margaret about it and she said that Stair did that all the time. All cash sent to Stair never gets recorded in the books, I wonder what happens to it??


                                          

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Internet-TV

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I  agree with what you said about a monitor - it can be the same or worse than a tv but you can control it.


A tv you can not control. Turn it on - filth filth filth pours out of it on every chanel.


The monitor - you can use to read Bible passages, browse Christian sites such as The Net Team, send receive email, etc.


Yes, it's bad but it can be controlled.

                                          

NAME::  Grapevine

FROM::  Illinois

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Well a big amen to Mike Rowland,
That was perfectly said about David Wilkerson (and no flattery intended).  Bravo we need more of the True Spirit of God calling a spade a spade.  

David Wilkerson was nothing more than a hypocrite at best.  Remember when he said, NY city will be burnt with fire.  Ok, then why are you staying there.  

His ministry was filled with all manner of the traditions of men.  I would puke on his Christmas and Easter Celebrations.  

Pass the plate in His services and don't forget to wear a suit and tie on Sundaay, while everyone sings repetitive songs for an hour in the sway of emotion that tickles the ears.  

America weep and howl, your churches and fancy preachers that have robbed you blind, and you loved it so, and are coming to nothing and will soon be the betrayers of the flock.

                                          

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM:: What about you Mike?

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Here is question and answer. Poor steve thinks I have cable, antenna, or satellite  Tv streaming into my home here is his question.

Steve Wrote:

"Bro. Wilkerson hated television and preached against it.
  What about you Mike? You got a tv?

Now its me again Michael Rowland

No I personally don't but others who are alone without children may be able to watch the history channel or discovery or National Geographic and control it better so all of the filth does not come through, but this does not make people Holy or unholy. We learned that from ralph because while ralph did not have a TV, ralph is watching whatever he wants online just like all of the radio preachers do, including guys like David Wilkerson Steve.

Now Steve you got anymore smart guy questions?

If you have a monitor Steve that could be potentially worse than a Television Set.

What ARE you thinking Steve. No Steve you were not thinking.

This message is not for just Steve. Steve represents 9/10th of the population

Steve? Do you have a monitor in there? Steve? Come on now fess up.

Steve is a young guy, its okay Steve I am trying to help you and others.



                                      

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  False Brothers

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  Speaking of false Brothers, I can't help but think of Ralph Gordon Stair, a self-proclaimed and lying (etc)prophet.
 

  By the way, I wonder if Robert Vargo continues to take a car in the evenings and travels down to the corner Night Club at I95 and 61 for a night out with the ladies, oh yeah! it's true.  You know, Robert gave over 2,000,000. and hence he can do whatever he wants, and get away with it.  or can he???
 

  And I wonder about the $16,000.00 in cash Mr. Stair says was taken from his radio room lately, could Robert have stolen it???  Or maybe Mr. Stair lied about the money?  There has always been missing money at the sex farm for as long as I have lived there.  Also, Mr. Stair is a habitual liar, you know, among other titles.  I am not ignorant of Mr. Stair's devices.
 

  Almighty God will not be mocked!  Be assured.

                                          

NAME:: Michael Rowland

FROM:: FALSE BROS..............

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Paul was beheaded and many of the 12 were crucified.


36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
 

They were not Hollywood stars like all of these big name preachers.

It is a shame that people today do not understand this, to them being a Godly person is all dressed up in their Sunday goin ta meetin clothes singing soul music in a huge church seating 5000 people.

After service 12:00PM they eat until it hurts or like pigs, GREAT BIG FOLKS!!

Yes the church met in houses, it was and shall always be the saints going underground to get a little relief away from the oppressors. 

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

19 And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.

10 And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin; but he slipped away out of Saul's presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night.

34 And, behold, the whole city came out to meet Jesus: and when they saw him, they besought him that he would depart out of their coasts.

A true Prophet will keep you pretty well all burned up with anger if you have a wicked heart. You will want him to get out of your life because he won't pet you and quote scriptures to sooth you into a dull drum. He is there to knock you out if you are oppressing the poor.

The scribes always get all burned up over just about anything.

The worlds version of Jesus is a smooth talking David Wilkerson type that sound like they are crying a prayer to preach their little sermons. Almost sounds like a woman to me, that guy.

Like a little ninny, I really mean that, Wilkerson sounds that bad to me. 

It is so phony and well practiced for many many years, these preachers copy one another to a TEE.


I am not trying to upset you brothers. You wouldn't want me to hide my true feelings would you?  I mean it, I get sick to my stomach hearing play nice, be nice boy, type  preaching, you know really soothing, careful not to upset anyone so they like me.  They don't care if they hurt God's name, just the people.   

Enough is to much profaning the name of THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL. 

GOD TOOK WILKERSON OUT WITH A BANG, END OF STORY. 

 

                               

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  

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                                           OH MY!!!

                                          

NAME::  Wilkerson

FROM:: Failed Prophecies

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http://www.wayoflife.org/files/53afb994f7508505a66c2637746d33ef-287.html 

                                          

NAME:: Steve's friend, Ontario

FROM:: Evil Resentful Stupid Quarrelsome

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I really don't think its constructive to argue over how David Wilkerson was a false prophet or not. If you've got issues with him test what he says agianst the bible.

Who cares if the rapture will happen before or after the tribulation. Who cares when it will happen. We just have to be ready to face God on the judgement day. The amount of time we put into living as servants of Christ is more important then trying to predict something we will NEVER know - the end of the world.

Its great that you have this site to expose Stair and other false prophets, but I feel like the greater picture of what God desires from us is being forgotten, or just pushed aside. God expects love and obedience and for us to go out into all the world and proclaim that Jesus is Lord!

"Do not quench the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt but test them all; hold on to what is good, reject every kind of evil. "
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22

"Flee the evil desires of youth and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
2 Timothy 2:22-24

As far as the end times go, I think we're too worried about the end of the story, and not worried enough about how we fit in right now as just a chapter of the book. We could be near the end of the world, but...


"about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
Matthew 24:36

Thanks for letting us all know that yer perfect Mike

What should it be? Basement gatherings? Just a handful?

Wait a minute. Fred Phelps does that.




 

                                          

NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM:: Wilkerson INC

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9VkZLGS-uE 

Many love this form of Christianity. 

 

                                          

NAME::  Bro Rowland

FROM:: Prophecies

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Thanks for catching my typo's steve on Noah. 

However concerning Prophets and Prophecies just for the record I want to make it known that Identifying someone as a false Prophet is not a spirit of hatred. 

To say that good judgment is hatred it to say Good is Evil.

What I am saying about Wilkerson is that he was a tithe teaching millionaire who took Bible passages where famines, floods, earthquakes are listed and used these verses to predict general inevitable events.

Pentecostal churches throughout the USA have given these same  utterances by common members for the last 100 years. All based on Bible verses.

This is not the mark of a Prophet simply because they Prophecy (speak in the Spirit) 

For instance Japan has had many thousands of earthquakes in the past 37 years of  of Wilkerson's 1974 "THE VISION"

Japan is sitting on a major fault line so how hard is that?

But "THE VISION" earthquake was for the USA in the not to distant future, so this means pretty soon within 100 years of 1974, right?

Think Brothers.

The Bible told us of these quakes thousands of years in advance.

Generalizations can be made like this by anyone.

This is not what God wants today. The Judgment was announce  by Jesus and other Prophets.

The roll of Prophets today on television are as follows

#1 

Ezek 22:25 There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they showed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.

I do not hate the truth nor have I ever hated Wilkerson anymore than I did ralph stair as steve has accused me of.

Facts are facts and can not be ignored. These TV based, world renounced Leaders    also heard on radio are using scripture to generalize prophetic passages to gain publicity. ralph did that. Anything to get one leg up on the next guy to turn a buck and be the center of the lime light.

Snap out of the trans. "Go not after them"

 

                                          

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Wilkerson Prophecies

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 David Wilkerson - true prophet of God.


Taken from "The Vision" Chapter 2


Chapter 2 Drastic Weather Change and Earthquakes ( The Vision by David Wilkerson-published in  1974)


           
Earthquakes coming to United States

 The United States is going to experience in the not-too-distant future the most tragic earthquakes in its history. One day soon this nation will be reeling under the impact of the biggest news story of modern times. It will be coverage of the biggest most disastrous earthquake in history.


It will cause widespread panic and fear, Without a doubt, it will become one of the most completely reported earthquake ever. Television networks will suspend all programming and carry all day coverage.Another earthquake , possibly in Japan may precede the one that I see coming here. There is not the slightest doubt in my mind about this forthcoming massive earthquake in our continent.


I am not at all convinced that this earthquake will take place in California. In fact, I believe it is going to take place where it is least expected. This terrible earthquake may happen in an area that not known as an earthquake belt. It will be so high on the Richter scale that it will trigger two other major earthquakes.

The End

 

David Wilkerson never said "Thus saith the Lord". SHow me where he did. He said, I feel this is going to happen by such and such a time. It was never a prophecy.

David Wilkerson was / is hated. Just as you are proving right now Mike.

True prophets of God are hated, despised and rejected of men.

Should we call you a false brother here because of your error's Mike?

You got it wrong here Mike Rowland, It was Abraham who plead with God to spare the city, not Noah.


                                          

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                                         Continuing on Prophets

 

True Prophets were far and few between is old testament days and were always driven away or persecuted severally for the WORDS of GOD that they delivered as messages to leaders. Leaders of large groups of people did not want to hear their messages.

Today there are many many many many many Prophets on television and radio all vying for the spotlight so they can tell everyone what God has told them to say. There must be thousands of these Prophets ready to Prophecy the WORD OF THE ALMIGHTY with many of them telling of how God took them into the 3rd heaven showing them all around. This 3rd heaven experience happens to thousands from what I have heard from the television ministries.

Now the ones that did not have this 3rd heaven ride around in the spiritual world had better just sit on down and listen up, to those who are FAR closer to God. I mean after all God has chosen them for this special trip through the heavenly Kingdom and not the rest of us, so right there we have to be obedient to these more privileged souls , Okay? These super spiritual men are worshipped today based on ideas like this.

All of these quote "special leaders" go where no man has gone before like Ellen G. White did and what they say God said is some how more relevant than scripture? 

Don't you buy into it brother and sister. What is good for the goose is good for the gander and I can tell you that if you are a true Prophet, you will not be raved after like Wilkerson, instead you will be forsaken by all.

Jesus showed us the pattern of events for true Godly men and women who operate the gifts and various administrative offices in the Kingdom of God. You will be hated of ALL men. Not taken to Hollywood and made into some sort of HOLY STAR.

Use you head people. David Wilkerson right from day one went to Hollywood in the 60's to make a movie "CROSS AGAINST THE SWITCH BLADE". Ever since has had the silver spoon sticking out of his mouth.

Jeremiah was put into the dungeon, real Prophets lead a different sort of life, not this mainstream soap opera minister we see out here today where every other preacher is the cats meow and the people coming in droves to get their ears tickled.

After they heard Jesus a few times they went away sorrowful, many went back and wall with HIM no more.

Jesus asked the 12, will you leave me ALSO?

You see a true Prophet is someone who is totally different from all of these showboat ministries in the world today.

They do not know God. As it was in the days of Sodom, our world today is just like that. Hardly can you find a real man. All have gone their own way.

Scripture is clear on end time signs. Over and over again scripture says that this day and time you and I live in will be worse than Sodom. Now we all say that Sodom was bad and that God was right in destroying it because there was no one left worth saving, right? 

Well now maybe you are getting the picture here.

All I can say is "You don't know GOD or his WORD" if you don't know what I am talking about.

That is the problem. Some do not have ears, therefore they can not hear. The serpent trademark.

Brother Michael

   

                                          

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                                   Many False Prophets and Teacher

 

Brothers let me continue on this subject of false Prophets. It is important that we look at scripture concerning the Prophets. God had told HIS people to listen to HIS Prophets, it is not a suggestion. When men say that they are prophets sent from God, often like the APOSTLE PAUL they have powerful experiences that drives them to direct the children, as they are on a plain above them in the spirit.

These Prophets throughout history never spoke in the name of the Lord without that WORD coming to pass. Those Prophets who's predictions that were supposed to be a WORD from God that did not come true were men that were not to be feared. 

Whether a Prophet is true or false each of them commanded the people around them to hear their words from God. The people who made fun of a Prophet ended up in some kind of trouble with God and in one case some bears came out of the woods and ate them alive.

So it a dangerous thing to mock the Prophets of God.

Elijah mocked the grove prophets and I am sure the people thought that ole Elijah was going to hit hard for challenging their god. 

The thing I need to stress before going on, is the fact that all Prophets good or bad, true or false, command YOU listen to them and to fear their words as they are from God. 

Let us take David Wilkerson as just one of many men who called themselves a Prophet. Wilkerson gave many Prophecies over the years and the sheep under him were required to obey him.  In fact like all Prophets Wilkerson had some members who knew he was false because his predictions failed.

In this case according to Gods instruction on Prophets speaking in the name of the Lord, God said if what they said did not come true 100% that they were speaking out of their own hearts. This is the designation of a false Prophet in scripture. The Lord has not sent him.

The Lord has not even sent that Prophet.  Their false Prophecies shows us who is true.

This is a basic teaching in the first 5 books of the Bible. Prophets are sent to preserve God's people.

Prophets are God's mouth piece. When people spoke against Moses bad things happened.

Prophets who speak out of the imagination of their own hearts God said that these Prophets were like the wind. The wind just blows all over.

A modern day Prophet can be identified as true or false based on their true or false Prophecies. 

In this light we can see that just like ralph stair is a false Prophet so was David Wilkerson, because the predictions that they said they heard from God did not come to pass.

Brother Mike

 

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/page3.html 

 

                                          

NAME::  Steve 

FROM::  Spiritual Giants

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David Wilkerson, the last of the Spiritual Giants has died a martyrs death and gone on to be with the Lord.


He was taken out, slaughtered by the drunken spirit of our age.


David was not drunk himself, yet he was drunk with the cares of this life causing a distraction and him to drift over into incoming traffic where he was run in headlong into a semi-tractor trailer.


Precious in the site of the Lord was the death of His servant, David Wilkerson. RIP

                                          

NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM:: It's a Duck

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Paul Wrote:

"The scripture says if we believe in our hearts that is righteousness and if we confess Jesus it is salvation."

Hey Paul all of our presidents here in the USA say they love Jesus and are liars so what in the world are you talking about?

A persons actions speak loud, I don't care what words they mumble if they show me they hate God in their deeds.

This people show much love with their mouths but their hearts are far from God.

They serve their own proud bellies caring little for the poor and widows.

This version of mealy mouth type of Jesus disgusts me.

Show me your works not flowery phrases like the scribes did. this is what I am looking at. 

With this name it and claim it doctrine people will have the devil himself all patched up with God, walking right into the Pearly Gates.

What a bunch of sissified spirits that cause so called men of God to be so afraid of the truth. 

If a man confuses Jesus and steals peoples money and rapes their women they are lost and on their way to Hell unless they repent.

Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the scribes.............................................you burn, no waffling here.

Shake yourselves brothers, stop this fear stuff where you can not judge good judgment. There is no middle of the road straddling the fence walk with God.

Few their be that find it bros................ 

Atleast back up your words with a few sentences, show some depth here, what's with the small one liners? Stuff like "I don't believe that Bro" while looking like birds on a wire rolling your eyes at each other.  Taking every thought captive is a big job, outright war. You are going to have to analysis what you think, so write it down here, if you can.

Take it captive. Fear is no good.

Your swords are very dull. It's so simple.

If it looks like a DUCK and it walks like a DUCK, it must be a DUCK!

What's so hard about that?

Don't tell me it is baaaaing like a sheep while it has webbed feet, I am not buying it.

It's the same ole, false prophets and teachers everywhere. Thats the BOOK boys. Shake this false fear stuff or you are going the way of all

Read it and weep.

Now having delivered my soul I am free to say have a good one and rejoice always.

 

                                          

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http://asterisktom.xanga.com/695057610/david-wilkerson-false-prophecies--unscriptural-teaching/

 

David Wilkerson
False Prophecies

 

I have a hard time writing about David Wilkerson for two reasons:

1. He is a mixed bag. Some of his sermons and writings have a lot of good points.
2. His book, "The Vision" is the one that I had just finished reading when I first turned to Christianity. This was in 1975, in my bedroom in the village of Langenselbold, West Germany. So, for the longest time it was hard for me to be impartial. Yet when assessing teachings and teachers of our faith, we need to hold them to the same Biblical standard (Acts 17:11).

This article will look at David Wilkerson's prophecies and teachings. After we have seen examples, we can make conclusions based on our open-Bible policy.

PROPHECIES

1. NO MORE GOSPEL ON TV BY 1999?

He preached this in the Solomon Church in December of 1994:

 

"Right now I sense in my spirit that in less than 5 years there will be no more so-called gospel television networks. They will all fall into bankruptcy and absolute ruin."
(Solomon Church Dec. 12, 1994)

2. 1000 FIRES IN NEW YORK CITY DUE TO RACE RIOTS IN 1993?

From a prophecy of September 7, 1992:

 

"I have had recurring visions of over 1,000 fires burning at one time here in New York city. I am convinced race riots will soon explode! New York City is right now a powder keg-ready to blow!...federal and State Welfare cutbacks will be the spark that ignites the fuse. Next year, New York City could have over 100,000 angry men on the streets, enraged because they have been cut off from benefits....Federal troops will have to move in to restore order. New York City will have tanks running down its avenues....Churches will be closed for a season because it will be too dangerous to travel about. Fires will rage everywhere." (Sept. 7, 1992)

Although Wilkerson set the expiration date of this prophecy himself - " Next year" (i.e. 1993), he now says that this is yet future. This is a common expedient for those who assume themselves to be prophets, moving the goal-posts, hoping that others will forget by then.

3. FINANCIAL CRASH IN 2000?

On April 15 of that year, Wilkerson prophesied this:

 

"For the last two years I have been crying aloud, warning all who would hear that America is receiving her last call and that judgment is at the door. I did not say this was the end of the nation, but the last call before a financial crash."

"I am writing this letter to you on Saturday, April 15, 2000. I have on my desk the headlines in yesterday's paper: "BLACK FRIDAY - BIGGEST ONE-DAY DROP IN HISTORY." The Dow fell 618 points - the Nasdaq fell 355. I do not know what is coming in the next sixty days. If the market bounces back, I can assure you it will be temporary. THE CRASH IS INEVITABLE - NOTHING CAN STOP IT."

To his credit, he admitted his mistake after the non-event, after the market instead of crashing, reached a record high on May 22 of that year:

 

"In prayer, I have told the Lord I am ready at any time to confess I am wrong - that I must have spoken from my own fears or that I have spoken unadvisedly. Recently, when the market reached record highs, I wondered if those calling me a false prophet were right."

He admits that he was motivated by fears when he gave this warning. I am not advocating that we kick a man when he is down, or that none of us are human. It is good that he admitted his mistake. But let me ask you this: When times get rougher than they are now, do you want to consult a prophet/teacher who is motivated by fears the next time he says "Thus says the Lord". I don't. We need to tear our eyes and hearts away from all authority figures and look to the Bible. If we listen to teachers and preachers, it must be the same way that the Bereans listened to Paul and Silas - with open Bibles and a determination to use them intelligently. In my mind, Wilkerson has already lost credibility by his mis-prophesying.

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Wise words Paul.

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NAME::  Brother Michael

FROM:: Hello Brother Paul

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Dearest Paul

It is always good to hear from the brothers like yourself and so I must address your comments concerning this wonderful word of the living God. 

You are so right that we as Christians should build one another up with so few in the land and to be careful with making condemning type judgments without mercy about the intentions of others.

In deed it is the Holy Spirit that is the discerner of the thoughts and intentions of the heart of men and I am sure that the Prophets of old who operated in that spirit realized this as well.

I must point our attention to the scripture you gave, for us all to look at concerning brothers teaching things by mistake and still making it into the gates of glory.

This is how the passage reads in context:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Here we can see Jesus clearly showing that the law was to be followed in verse 17 

Then in verse 19 Jesus brings out the breaking of commandments by God's people. Verse 19 states that breaking and teaching the breaking of one of the laws of God written did not put him out of The Kingdom. 

However Verse 20 states that the scribes did do this and went to hell. The scribes taught for doctrines the commandments of men and were cast out of the Kingdom for breaking commands and replacing the Law of God with their traditions.

So which is it here? Are the scribes the least but still in the kingdom? Or are the scribes who taught the breaking of the commands cast out?

The answer is clearly that the entire passage is dealing with the intentions of the heart like you said Paul. And we must all remember that Jesus always moved in the Power of the Spirit that searches out the hearts and deep things of God, so when Jesus spoke here in these passages He dealt with the intentions.

Very Good Paul.

The scribes taught another Jesus and their intentions were very clear, so Jesus condemned them.

We as Christians can not waffle about the truth and judgments of God, yet we don't want to speak out of turn against a true brother at the same time. This requires much of each child of God in such a twisted and confusing religious world.

Some have used verse 19 to say that if a man breaks the adultery command and teaches others that committing adultery is not that bad, will still be in the kingdom even though they will be the least one there.

I don't think you believe that, do you Paul?

Bro Mike

 

 


                                          

NAME::  Paul (Manitoba)

FROM::  Judging People

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  Again I think we need to be careful about who we say are christians and who are not.  Its not wise to say who ascends and who descends.  The scripture says if we believe in our hearts that is righteousness and if we confess Jesus it is salvation.  

We are not going to get to the kingdom by our good works, or preaching a perfect gospel.  Certainly we can judge sins, but we better be careful about judging someones intentions.  

It also says in the scriptures that he who breaks the least of Gods commandments and teaches others to do so we'll be least in the kingdom (not thrown into hell) and he who keeps Gods commandments and teaches others to do so shall be great in the kingdom.  

If I gave up on every brother because of his sins or his errors regarding the scriptures  there would be no church, period.  We need to use the word of God to encourage one another and strengthen one another, not to destroy one another. 

I would suggest we be quick to hear and not so quick to speak.  

Blessings to all my brothers and sisters.


                                          

NAME::  Loving & Serving Lies

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                                           Tithing rational

 

#1. The word "tithe" is based on an ancient word meaning 10 percent

#2.  You should give a tenth of your earnings to the church or temple

#3  When this rule was first mandated, it referred to a tenth of everyone's goods and today this translates into your monetary income.

#4  All properly observant believers are commanded to give a tenth.

#5  Compliance is voluntary, but non-compliance is wrong or a sin.

#6  All mandatory giving of tithes is to be done freely.

#7  All Israel gave ten percent of their resources so must the Church today.

#8   Non tithing individuals are robbing God's Church

#9   Israel gave food tithes because they did not have money back then.

#10  Today Church tithes are mandated in the form of  money instead of food.

#11  All Israelites had to farm for their living, each gave a tenth of this.

#12  Without tithes Church leaders can not preach the Word.

#13   The tithes are a Preachers double portion for overseeing the flock.

#14   Tithing brings a blessing on you.

#15   Churches with no tithing rules still require their staff to, as good examples.

#16   Sunday school teachers often are required to teach tithing in their classes.

#17   Apostle Paul collected tithes and lived off the money, preaching the word.

#18    The storehouse is clearly the Church today.

#19    Non  tithing persons are cursed  with a curse.

#20   Anyone in a Nation not tithing is a thief, robber and cursed.

#21   The tithe comes right off the top of your gross income.

 

For further info about the Tithing Lie click this link

http://www.thenetteam.net/tithing.swf

May God open your eyes to the truth. All of these one liners are false incase

you were not sure. Read The Bible again and you will see what I mean.

Bro Michael PS it should be easier now to see who is serving God and who is serving themselves.

God has chosen the poor of this world rich in faith.

     

                

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Wilkerson College requirements. Hannah Hurnard's new age Jesus

 

http://asterisktom.xanga.com/595408139/hinds-feet-in-lowest-places/

 

Hind's Feet in Lowest Places
A Second Look at the Life and Message of Hannah Hurnard

 


At first glance you wouldn't think that Hannah Hurnard belongs among those who deny the faith. How many times have we come across her books in Christian bookstores? She was the author of the semi-autobiographical allegory "Hind's Feet on High Places". Since it came out in 1955 it has been high on the best-seller list. Allegory, by very definition, is hard to assign meaning to. It is this that has kept the work in the charitable affections of many Christians, who see in the piece a devotional plea for spiritual and Christlikeness.

But which Jesus are we describing here? Over the years the identity of Hurnard's Christ has come into sharper focus. This is actually the New Age Christ and not the Son of God of Christianity. Looking at all of the books that Hurnard wrote after her first work helps us to understand much more about her Christianity and also what her intentions were from the very first book. All of her later full-blown heresies are clearer seen, though perhaps just hinted at, in her first offering.

She never believed that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone. Rather, her belief is that we save ourselves by suffering and affliction. It is this suffering that brings us into unity with Christ, not anything that God did. Every human passion (affections of any kind) must be killed. This is our sacrifice to God. Christ's sacrifice to the Father was apparently not sufficient. Not having faith in the completeness of the Lamb's acceptability with the Father, Hurnard believes we too must sacrifice for our own salvation. Her "Christlikeness" is the means of salvation, instead of, as true Christianity teaches, the result and outworking of it.

Hurnard insists, also, that it is through her kind of "Christlikeness" that we are one with Christ. Once we achieve this "unity with Christ" (akin to Hindu Sadhu teachings), we are then ready for the advanced experiences: revelations, astral projection, necromancy, etc.

Some of her lesser known works are:

"Mountains of Spices", "Eagles’ Wings to the Higher Places", (1981 - Harper & Row) and "The Inner Man" (her final book).

These works all espouse universalism (all will be saved), pantheism, reincarnation, extreme vegetarianism (the life of God is in all animals), necromancy (allowed by by an angelic "Jesus" in a personal contact with Hurnard) and an outright denial of the Gospel of Christ. Many who have "Hind's Feet" on their shelves, and maybe even have enjoyed the book, have no idea of this hidden side of Hannah Hurnard. Her last book, "The Inner Man" is so utterly without Christian doctrine that it can only be bought from a New Age publishing firm (Sun Books).

Here is an excerpt from "Eagles' Wings", in which we are assured of universal salvation for all. The character, Aletheia ("truth") makes these discoveries:

 

"All her [Aletheia's] unacknowledged doubts and questions arose again concerning a God who called Himself Love and who brought myriads of souls into existence without being able to prevent them from condemning themselves to an eternity of hopeless darkness and suffering, lost to Him forever. How could He possibly love them, if He let this happen to them? How could He possibly be good, if He brought them into an existence where it was possible for them to separate themselves from His love and joy and goodness forever?”

...

"Oh, how terrible and hopeless to be a God who loves goodness and cannot save His own creatures from preferring evil. If he did not call Himself a God of Love it would be different. A devil might create living souls capable of tormenting themselves forever. Oh, what agony to love the souls brought into existence enough to go to the cross in a last supreme effort to save them and not be able to do so. To proclaim, ‘I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Myself,’ and to be unable to do it! To find that the Devil is stronger than Goodness and could gloatingly and triumphantly succeed in damning at least ninety percent of God’s creatures, leaving only a pitiful ten or even smaller percent to respond to His love — a handful of souls for Him to rejoice over for ever and ever, while all the others were tormented in hell. Oh, what hopelessly bitter Bad News this was. How could she ever believe in and trust such a God again?”

But then a "Good Shepherd" comes to enlighten Aletheia, assuring her:

 

“ ‘God is an infinite ocean of Love and Goodness. In Him there is no wrath at all. What men call His wrath and judgment is the inexorable determination of the love of the skilled surgeon to heal the sickness and suffering of a beloved son....'"

Aletheia comes to her epiphany at last:

 

“‘He is the Saviour of all men!’ (1 Tim. 4:10). The words burst forth in passionate triumph from the lips of Aletheia. ‘Oh, how blind I have been! He is lifted up and nailed to the cross with us. As Jesus revealed when He hung between the two thieves and murderers, He will “draw all men unto Him.”


Her last allegory book is far worse than her first, but the seeds of Hurnard's heresy were present from the very beginning. How important it is for us to examine everything we read with critical Berean discernment!

What kind of Jesus did Hurnard believe in?

An angelic Jesus who ascended from “angelic level of God consciousness” to “Son of God consciousness” .
A Jesus who personally authorized necromancy.
A Jesus who is the Saviour of all men ... and of all animals too!
A Jesus that shows us how to save ourselves -- by suffering. It is by this suffering that we atone for our sins. As she herself said, " All suffering is atoning". We are our own saviours.

Hannah Hurnard died in 1990 but her work and "ministry" carries on through, of all people, David Wilkerson, as well as others.

Hurnard, Essayist and Poet

Here are a few more odds and ends about Hannah Hurnard: A few quotes of hers. Actually, one is a poem.

She wrote this in her work "Creative Powers":

"In case of need we should be able, at will, to stimulate and control the winged cells in our body which would enable us to fly; or the fish cells which would cause the body to pass through the water like a fish. There is no lower creation. Every living creature is a part of the 'One Created Being.'"

 

In doing my research I came across a whole spectrum of people, from those who think she can do no wrong to those who call her the devil himself. A helpful site I ran into was Elizabeth Fabiani's Christian Woman's Page. She wrote a very good page on her sudden disenchantment that she had with Hurnard. She had devoted a large portion of her site to devotionals geared to "Hind's Feet". When searching for other materials from Hannah, she found out the truth about her apostasy. I believe she did the right thing by posting the disclaimer below:

http://www.christianwomanspage.org/hindsfeetz.asp

 

This is the poem from Hannah Hurnard. Draw your own conclusions.

THE POWER OF POSITIVES ONLY
AND NO NEGATIVES

Though tribulations great are here
We need not know a moments fear!
There is a power for us to use
If God's own Highest Will we choose.
Jesus gives a wonderous key,
So that our hearts at peace may be.
Goodness is positive and charms.
Evil is negative and harms.

All positives protect and bless,
But negatives cause great distress.
Good positives will make us glad;
Wrong negatives bring all that's bad.
So why be negative and dwell
In some dark, dreadful, lonely hell?
Be always positive and live
In the bright heaven God will give.

-Hannah Hurnard

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM:: Mailing List Salvation

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  OK, I get it now!  Mr. Stair states there is another way to be saved, all you have to do is have your name on his mailing list and then your name will be in the Lamb's Book of Life.  Guess we all should contact Mr. Stair and have our names on his mailing list and we can all be saved.  WOW!!!
 

The Bible does warn us about a THIEF.  Now, do I want to believe the Word of God or the "word of Stair"?
 

Very obvious to me.
 

Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Lots of good men

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Okay steve fair enough. Then you won't mind telling us all of the names of these GOOD men is the ministry or wherever.

Give me a name big guy and we will go from there.

It will be like God saying to Abraham that he would need 10 names of good Godly men and God would not destroy Sodom.

As it was in the days of Sodom and ...........................

Okay give up some names smarty.

It's Okay steve I am not at all angry with you because most people feel the way you do, so I am use to this.

Some names please. And we will see if you are not just blowing your horn without something to back it up.

Besides, I would love to hear about who these Godly preachers are so I can send them my money right? So I can feel like I am tight with God right?

Right steve?

Wilkerson rejected ralph because it would not be financially beneficial for Wilkerson Ministry, and some followers who are disgruntle with Wilkerson might start following stair instead if Wilkerson endorsed ralph.

Now, THAT is THE only reason why Wilkerson did not respond to ralph as stair started to get bigger on the radio in the 90's.

All of these Ministries know that one guy tries to get a leg up on the next guy if their cHurches are world renowned corporation.

They don't want to lose their sheep and thus the money that the sheep bring else how would they become mega millionaires?

Jesus said that the rich men would have to give up their possession, so this is not my word you know? I am only repeating God Son Jesus or Jesus(God in flesh)

If you have a problem with that take it up with HIM. 

Let me warn you in advance though, HE won't change his words because you have challenged what is written. "IT IS WRITTEN" that is what shuts the mouths of the devils. 

The wooden cHurches serve money and preach the tithing lie that everyone must give ten percent for openers and start other little projects to fill in the blank for the building fund bar graph.

The book of Leviticus says that the tithe was always only food items of the herd and one tenth of the crops.

Money was never required nor was a tenth of ANYTHING required from EVERY person in Israel as preached today. For instance a carpenter  could not qualify to give one tenth of his work to the tribe of Levi because people can not EAT boards or wooden structures.

Go read the word's of GOD's mouth in Leviticus, or do you hate that word so much you can not even tell me what it says? Are you so void of a desire to be right with God that you WILL not read the rules for tithing WRITTEN???

"IT IS WRITTEN" You devils and no I am not talking to poor ole steve.

I am speaking to the demons of a zombie possessed human culture of vipers that hate the truth just like Jesus mentioned when HE was doing miracles of earth from a fleshly body.

If you love the WORDS of God so much then why don't you know what it says enough to apply it to your analysis of what is right and wrong? This is called having GOOD Godly Judgment.

Where is Judgment? I fear it has fallen back.

Now how stupid are the people to believe that lie? The Tithing lie preached today?

The tithing lie that David Wilkerson preached all of his life!!

God hates a Lying tongue. Now I know people will call just about everyone they know a liar at one time or another except their preacher, like the preacher is some how above the law of God and has achieved some kind of a supernatural status here on earth to where that preacher is without sin and has arrived.

Wake up sleepers. Most of you can not hear a thing I write but YOU have been told. Night Night hope you don't wake up in Hell instead.

You are young, you still have time.

Hope this helps?

Brother Michael

  

NAME::  Steve 

FROM::  Everyone Is False?

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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According to you Mike Rowland everyone is false. I don't believe that. I believe there are a lot of Godly men out there. Although there are a lot of Charlatans.

I heard ralph talk about the death of David Wilkerson this morning. David Wilkerson was killed yesterday in a car accident. stair many a times tried to reach out to David Wilkerson but Bro. Wilkerson turned him down hands down. stair wanted to be able to promote books like "Running to the Judgment" and other Wilkerson books, but Bro. Wilkerson would have none of it. Wilkerson knew the manner of man ralph stair is and did not want any association.



NAME::  Bro Rowland

FROM:: Wilkerson Mount Zion College

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Here is what is being taught at his college.

Beware of false doc's

 

 

 

http://www.cephasministry.com/evangelist_david_wilkersons_teachings.html

DAVID WILKERSON Another Hindu New Age Clone of Kathryn Kuhlman We are grateful to Chris
Klippert for forwarding this information. I have tried to get to the bottom of Wilkerson's
cult for some time with no success. He has distanced himself from Brownsville and the
Toronto Blessing, as well as other loonie Charismatics. This seemed like a good trend. Yet
his vision, which catapulted him into the limelight of Christendom, was a screwy mess,
which, when correct, simply parroted the Bible's prophetic things.

A Lutheran Pastor was
giving a vision in the some building where Wilkerson gave his at the very same instant.
Wilkerson prevailed, and he was a hit. So, between then and now Wilkerson has walked a
cautious path. Now, we finally have learned of his origins in Kathryn Kuhlman and the Hindu
New Age teachings she passed on to him. Two other men got their power and origins from
Kuhlman-- Benny Hinn, and Dino Kartsenakis (Don't know the spelling). Dino uses New Age
riffs in the treble to start many of his numbers, and Benny Hinn teaches Hinduism in a Christian package. So, we now ask you to examine David Wilkerson. He has to be highly dangerous since he has maintained such a civilized aura in Charismania. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Mount Zion School of Ministry Going to Mount Zion School of Ministry? Be Warned! My son
recently graduated from Mount Zion School of Ministry with the two-year diploma. While he
was attending, I definitely felt something was odd but couldn't't put our finger on the problem. Problem? What could possibly be wrong? Dave Wilkerson is the sponsor and founder
of Mount Zion School of Ministry! We sent our son with utter confidence and trust.
Unfortunately, we had no inkling of what was truly happening at Mount Zion.

What is
Happening at Mount Zion School of Ministry? The administration of Mount Zion is putting
forward perverse New Age Theology. These teachings undermine: * Salvation though faith in
Jesus Christ alone * Divine Healing as provided for in the atonement * Empowerment for
service through the Holy Ghost Baptism Rather than being built up with sound Biblical
doctrine, Mount Zion students are lead into a mystical world of monkish introspection and
scourging of their inner selves.

They are taught that only through a long process of
breaking and or physical (sickness) can a believer be properly equipped for ministry.
Personal Sorrow and suffering are depicted as the only means to attain holiness and full
unity or fellowship with Christ.2 Ultimately, students are informed through Hannah
Hurnard's writings that every human affection must be destroyed as a sacrifice to God. The
students are lead to believe that in this life, their human affections must be completely
removed. When this work is achieved inner sorrow and suffering will supposedly vanish away!
3 I have only recently discovered that Dave Wilkerson also puts forward SOME of these ideas
in his book Hungry For More of Jesus.4

NOTICE: every teacher at Mount Zion does not promote The above Theology. Nonetheless, every
student is exposed to and strongly inseminated with these doctrines. When my son gave a
talk about victory in Jesus his message was refused and another had to be submitted.
Implementing Truth? -- Oh Dear!

These bazaar teachings at Mount Zion were clearly exemplified when my son initiated, with some faculty resistance, a love offering to pay for a fellow student's tooth extraction. This student was suffering with two seriously decayed
teeth and defiantly did not have the resources to pay a dentist. A week or so after the
collection was gathered the students were informed that it was a sin to interfere with
God's dealings. The students were told, that by giving help, we hinder the suffering that
God has willed and thus, a needed lesson will not be learned!

Reader, please remember that
the above approach to suffering is a fundamental tenant of Islam but not Christianity. It
is certainly not consistent with our past image of Dave Wilkerson and his ministry!
Nevertheless, this was not an isolated case at Zion. The prayer of faith is not part of the
Zion experience. Rather, suffering in body and soul are put forward as God's tools for our
betterment. If this troubles you and sounds unbelievable than check below and read our book
review of Dave's Hungry for More of Jesus.

Polluted Wells We have told you the good news
and from here things get much worse. At Mount Zion School of Ministry President Catherine
has stayed the course upon two books. First, the Bible (good! very good!) as might be
expected and secondly, the writings and spirituality of Hannah Hurnard. In Dave Wilkerson's
graduation speech he admitted twice that Catherine was no Theologian but was deeply
spiritual.

What Dave failed to say or realize was that Catherine is a Hannah Hurnardite. In
my son's first year Catherine used Hannah's Hinds' Feet on High Places as the main chapel
devotional guide. President Catherine continues to base her life's message upon Hannah's
teaching. Hannah's writings are not simply another book at Zion but are described by
Catherine as "inspired by the Holy Spirit." Hannah's book Mountains of Spices was used in a
class during my son's second year while the Hinds' Feet message was ongoing in all that
Catherine emphasized and imparted.

The Spawn of Satan So, who is Hannah Hurnard? By the end
of her life Hannah Hurnard established herself as an extreme heretic of the first order,
who, put forward a smorgasbord of extreme New Age Theology including, open rejection of the
Gospel, Hyper Necromancy, Universalism, Pantheism, Reincarnation, and much more. Her final
book The Inner Man, is only available though New Age book suppliers. My Christian bookstore
could not trade with these sources. Nevertheless, Hannah's Hinds' Feet remains very high on
the Christian, best sellers book list. Having a "flowers and spice" approach, Hinds' Feet
simply appears to be another "girl thing" book.

Actually, Hinds' Feet has some very hurtful
Theology but you must read carefully and listen to what is being said, rather than what is
being felt. Remember, every feeling must bow to the Word of God! Hannah's fall from the
truth was no fall at all. A malevolent spirit controlled her before she ever started
writing. In her first book Hind's Feet she introduces several extreme New Age teachings but
dresses them in flowers, nature, lovely animals and a idealistic romance with the Shepherd.
She wrote of a long journey to the High Places or Kingdom of Love.

In her last book The
Inner Man she confirms that this climb to the High Places depicts our exodus from Physical
consciousness to inner "mysticism" or soul world awareness. She says that this process of
passing from one world to the other is called dyeing to self and is only achieved through
our personal sorrow and suffering. In Eagles' Wings Hannah asserts that her message
contradicts the Fundamental Gospel of salvation through faith in Jesus and the repentance
of sin. Remember, Hannah's false spirituality is only achieved through our personal sorrow
and suffering. Conversely, we know that if our personal sacrifice could save us than the
shepherd might just as well be Buddha.

If Christ's blood brings our Salvation than only
Jesus will suffice! The message that we preach is just as important as the name we follow!
Far, Far, Far Out!-- Talking to the Dead In Hannah's The Inner Man she declares that our
awakening to the unseen world is a wonderful liberation. We are then free to travel about
in the spirit and to congregate with other kindred spirits. We are also told that we may
converse with the dead in spite of Scripture's prohibition, because, Jesus has approved
this practice and he acts as the medium between the dead and the living. Hannah asserts
entering this mystical world awakens us to new inner powers. She says that our mind cannot
only read thoughts but our mind can altar the physical world around us. Through positive
thinking Hannah ascribes powers to us that belong only to God in heaven.

All of this occurs
after we have earned the high places via sorry and suffering. Consider how that all of
these Satanic teaching began with a supposed righteous journey up to the Kingdom of Love.
Was this an innocent journey or one of the great deceptions of the 20th Century? The end of
the matter has not yet been told. How many well meaning Christians are drawing their
spirituality from Hannah's well and in the process are drinking from a cup of demonic
deception? How many are seeking holiness through their own sacrifices rather than Christ's
Cross and are thus trusting in an anti-Cross? How many place their inner revelations above
the Scripture and in so doing are following another Christ? May God save us! Will he find
faith when he comes?

New Age Teachings And Book Reviews Exploring Hannah's Spreading Heresy A Book Review of,
Hinds' Feet, --Hannah Hurnard <http://www.i-plus.net/~thorpe/Zion/Hindsfeet.htm A Book
Review of, Mountains of Spices, --Hannah Hurnard <
http://home.i-Plus.net/thorpe/Zion/Spices.htm A Book Review of, Hungry for More of Jesus,
-- Dave Wilkerson. <http://home.i-Plus.net/thorpe/Zion/Hungry.htm David Wilkerson is
forward Hannah's Quaker Theology of personal suffering unto inner purification. Hannah, New
Age and Beyond! A Book Review of, Eagles' Wings, --Hannah Hurnard Incredible! <
http://home.i-Plus.net/thorpe/Zion/Eagle.htm A Book Review of, The Inner Man, --Hannah
Hurnard Unthinkable! <http://home.i-Plus.net/thorpe/Zion/InnerMan.htm What others are
saying about Hannah Hurnard's heresy. <http://www.pfo.org/high-pla.htm <
http://www.ezlink.com/~trbranch/barclay.htm Hannah's New Age Friends Hinds' Feet finds a
home with the New Age Crowd! Do the New Agers understand something that that we have
overlooked? Do New Agers read with more comprehension, or is it simply that they are about
to convert to Christ? You decide -- I trust your judgment! The Haunted Bookshop; <
http://www.haunted.com.au/books/05development.html New Beginnings; a New Age, Metaphysical
on-line bookstore carrying a complete line of books, audio tapes, CDs, and videos. <
http://entertain.com/nalybi/religions/Christianity.shtml The Aquarian Age Bookshelf; This
book shop advertises Hinds' Feet as A Classic, Very Highly Recommended. <
http://www.phoenix.net/~aquarian/inspire.htm Shall I Attend Mount Zion School of Ministry?
Well, if you are considering attending Mount Zion School of Ministry you now have something
to pray about. * Ask any Mount Zion student about Hannah Hurnard's books at Mount Zion. *
Inquire about "brokenness" and sorrow and suffering at Mount Zion.

* Read Hinds' Feet for yourself or look at other books by Hannah. * Judge wether the
graduates of Mount Zion display the love and anointing that you seek. * Don't follow any
man's great name but follow Christ and His Word! I might suggest a visit but visitors have
not generally been welcome. Apparently, the leaders of Mount Zion are genuinely frightened
that Hannah's Theology might be exposed.

Touch Not the Lord's Anointed! I know
that some will shutter because they believe that I have touched the Lord's anointed. Yes, I
take that thought very seriously! I remember that David's heart smote him for simply
cutting off Saul's skirt. Do you think I am smiling? No, I am not. Yet, I place God's Word
above all men, reputations, and all experiences and presumed anointing. "And the times of
this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:" Acts 17:30
I refuse to remain silent while Satan damages the cream of future Pentecostal ministry! No
one can be allowed to sabotage the message of salvation or the truth of enduement with
power for service through the Baptism in the Holy Ghost! When you are sick, do you want a
minister with "sympathy" or Holy Ghost power?

Be careful about who prays for your healing.
They might believe that your sickness is a blessing from God! You won't find much faith or
power in their empty hands. You might even hear a little voice murmur, "Welcome to the high
places of SUFFERING AND AFFLICTION." NOTICE: Twice, I contacted Dave Wilkerson and informed him about Hannah Hurnard and her abominable heresies.

I thought Dave would want to explore
the documentation that I had gathered. I believed Dave would do something to distance his
school from such shame! Finally, Dave has done something. He has sent word saying that
since my son does not agree with Mount Zion's teachings (Hannah Hurnard's Heresy) he must
not to return to fulfill his required internship. What could Dave's response mean? Why
would he not stand for truth? Now, my son suffers and is persecuted for righteousness sake
and the Word of God.

Although, his sufferings will not make him more holy, his sufferings
will certainly increase his heavenly reward. (Matthew 5:12) I am posting this information
as a sincere warning to aspiring ministers. I have no fear, because, the God that I serve
places his Word above even his name. (Psalm 138:2)
Written by: James Thorpe
in the 1960s
 
I personally participated in Dave Wilkerson's ministries by
being placed in charge of a weekly reform school ministry that Teen Challenge had
initiated. Furthermore, I later worked a few evenings at the Lost Coin with Dave's sainted
mother. I also distributed his Cross and Switchblade book on the streets and drove teens to
his meetings where I was a personal altar worker.
 
I am an Ordained Pentecostal Pastor,
former children's evangelist, teen minister, and missionary to Honduras. I love the Word of
God more than life and Jesus most of all. I am aware of the broad support that Dave
Wilkerson enjoys. Nevertheless, I must fulfill my commission to warn those who stray and
those who will be hurt. Hannah Hurnard's doctrine is certainly being taught at Mount Zion.
Think of the harm that this deceptive spirit will bring to future generations!

 

NAME::  Bro Rowland

FROM:: Wilkerson (Charismatic Baptist)

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here:

Wilkerson preached the tithing lie all of his life and is a multimillionaire if not billionaire from the income generated through fear of damnation.

No rich man shall enter. Now if David would have sold all that he had and gave to the poor then he could have had riches in heaven, just like Jesus said.

All Baptist's (I know I was a Baptist and went to their colleges) must begin their giving at a minimum 10% gross income plus offerings, or they are not serving God and are not Godly people or not good men serving their own bellies etc............

These 501c3 cHurch organizations follow the smell of green backs.

Have a good one.

Michael Rowland

 

 

 

NAME::  Thomas Belford

FROM::  Steve has helped

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

I think Steve has helped many more than we will ever know about.

Stair runs at the mouth and later crayfishes back and says I never said that to the radio audience . and the dumb down ones at his farm go with anyway he wants to go with what come forth from his confusing mouth.

But those on the radio might have a chance to wake up and see him (Stair) for  what he is .  Knowledge has been increased about stair

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  Hello Steve!

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 
 Are you on Mr. Stair's mailing list?  If not, then we are all going to Hell, according to Mr. Stair.  Who gave Stair the authority to place men's names in/out of the Lamb's Book of Life?  Maybe Mr. Stair is getting this from the Qur'an?  Stair's speech aligns more with allah than Jesus.  Don't you think so?
 And Mike, Mr. Stair paid your child support?  That is not what he said on international radio.  I wished Mr. Stair would have kept his word when he said he would pay Mana's $30,000.00 hospital bill like HE said to everyone in the dining hall.  Of course, Mr. Stair would have preferred Mana died instead of living. 
 What a snake Stair is.

 

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Listening To This Dog

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Dave asks how I can stand listening to rg stair


Believe me Dave I take no pleasure in listening to this dog. It's a ministry God has given me to record him so that those who think he's a man of God can listen to the radio clips and say hey that guy is false.


Even if we get one or two it's worth it.


I think it's more than one or two.

 

NAME::  Brother Michael

FROM:: "Cake momma"

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Really ralph has always done that kind of verbal manipulation, it's only after we got out away from ralph that his filthy delivery of the scriptures are evident.

For instance around the year 2000 ralph was giving a message on his international broadcast on Elijah stating that the Prophet asked the little widow woman for some cake. Only ralph was saying that she had a fleshly son who was begging for cake too,

In each case ralph kept on saying that the little boy represented the flesh and that the boy was begging for cake and ralph said that the boy was saying "Gimme some cake momma" Gimme some cake momma"

ralph kept saying that the boy was earthly and the Prophet was from heaven so she should give him the cake instead.

In every case the phrase was repeated that she should "give cake" over and over till it was very clear that ralph was addressing every female in his building to give in to the Prophet first before her own fleshy husband. Ralph wanted the cake first then each husband was next.

As far as money goes, ralph gives out a few percent to look good and keeps the rest for whatever he wants. ralph has spent millions on everything from soup to nuts. Last I heard he spent $100,000 on some solar panels. 

The guys is loaded with money he has conned people out of.

ralph wants the females on his farm to give him cake first and the males had better give their cake too in the form of money, if they want to get into the presence of God.

ralph was finally cornered by the higher up brothers to pay my bill after using my services for 6 years and promising to cover it, while the interest doubled the amount during the time he delayed.

ralph finally paid a bill I had owing for children who were long since grown and was collecting the money back from me weekly after it was paid. ralph would have gotten it all back and would have continued to collect money from me for as long as possible, till the tick ran dry, just like he was doing with Tim Butler or anyone who ralph thought he could gain an advantage over financially.

In one day ralph through me off his farm telling the sheriff, no he would not be reasonable to let Mike Rowland get his stuff properly after 6 years of non stop slave labor.

I told the world on international radio that Faith Cathedral  paid a bill for me and I was glad that the ministering brothers had enough leverage to make ralph pay it right at the end of my stay at the farm. In the weeks prier, about 25, I started staying gone from the farm, working and was paying it off myself. In 6 months I had paid back $10,000.

This was very embarrassing to the staff who were talking about this enough to make ralph look bad. ralph brought it up in the dinning hall pointing out how much money I could make in a short time on a shoe string. ralph could see right away that I was worth more to him in dollars and cents and agreed to make a reduced one time payment to Michigan.

God had other plans for me, making money for ralph was not an option.

This was all brought out on my radio broadcast world wide just like that.

ralph is now saying that we are all thieves and lying devils who tried to steal ministry money by lying about his sexual behavior.

It was only a few weeks later that the full truth of what ralph was doing caused a mass exodus, for fear of more pregnant teens and being found supporting/living/eating with this heathen man ralph stair.

The world now knows for sure what they had suspected ralph was doing at his farm for the last 30 years.

One last thing. I think it ironic that before sister Mary left the farm and grew to hate ralph using her told young girls entering the farm not to hang their under garments on the line because ralph would come sniffing like a dog for them.

The new girl ralph is using right in front of the community looks a lot like Mary Bonner who is now with the Lord.

 

 

NAME::  Dave Mull  

FROM::  Tolerating Mr. Stair

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Hey Steve, just wondering how you can tolerate listening to Mr. Stair's lies.  After five years we cannot stand hearing Stair, let alone mention his name without VOMITING.  Your clips reveal to us Mr. Stair has not changed to the better, but has become worse.

Mana and I can only imagine what Mr. Stair is saying about us.
Isn't it paradoxical how we can see Bible truth whilst them poor souls down there at Overcomer Hell are just blinded? 

I remember Brother Chip said to us before we left the compound, "I don't believe everything Brother Stair says or does is right". Well then why do you stay there, Chip?

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM:: Steve's Audio-Site

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Hey Steve

Great to see that you are becoming your own man now with your own site.

This is what is needed. Excellent start of the collection of audio from ralph stair.

These files show perfectly what ralph's strategy is like. 

In most clips all I hear ralph stressing matters relating to his uncontrolled sexual 

behavior. If ralph is not talking about a woman's dress he is making his farm look 

like it is a place where ralph can protect young girls from all of the worldly

brothers at his farm.

Good job boy.

You are leading the way.

Bro Mike PS (The mark of a great man is to know greatness)

 

NAME::  Bro Steve 

FROM::  Audio Files

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 

I'll still be recording this dog for you.


Soon I'll be setting up an audio page with clips so you and others can download them.

Thought you'd like to know when ralf is talking trash bout you.


Audio Files http://www.freewebtown.com/dedicated7/audio.htm


More clips coming soon.


 

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  ralf rant

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

ralf is calling Mike a dog again, talking about how he gave him a house trailer. How mike used to preach against him, how he paid your child support, how you hit on the sisters.

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Dollar Law

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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Hi David

I would like to point out steve's way of thinking is somewhat common. For instance in previous messages steve has made it clear that the Churches he goes to are doing al right which shows a sort of mainstream understanding of society.

I am not saying steve is a bad person in general, just that like most of us at least for a time in our lives we tent to believe what we have been conditioned to for.

The world is not what it seems. The world is run by the capitalistic dollar and the dollar is the gOd spoken of when it states "In God We Trust"

This is unsatisfactory when comparing Bible facts with the American way these days. Steve has shown in other posts that he admires the Canadian Gov. thinking it is the best one, I don't know.

Whether he and others will admit to thinking these programmed thoughts or not, their statements prove otherwise.

This feeling the the leaders of your country are looking out for your best interest is a delusioniary myth.

Money rules not God and the Canadian's are not serving two masters.

They serve mammon just like all of the rest of the people.

To prove this theory out they all go to their Churches made of wood and pay out big bucks to be in good standing with their members. Show boat peer pressure controls their action and reaction. Pleasing God is what they call this.

I hope they all get free.

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  Att.  Steve

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

  Steve, perhaps you are not aware of the Law here in America.  If you have the money, you can get away with murder.  In Stair's case, "Child Molester".  And Stair is using all the money you send him, in offerings, to continue in his rape and incest activities.
 Mr. Stair has had Syphilis for quite a while now and it is affecting his brain more than ever now.  This was found out while he was serving his prison sentence, and before he could buy his way out of prison.  The fowl language Mr. Stair uses during dining hall brow-beatings is proof of this.  He now looks terrible; lost a lot of weight and he looks like skin and bones.  Mr. Stair's time is very short indeed.

 

NAME::  Bro Steve

FROM:: Dangerous Sex Offenders

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

Steve Dangerous Offender article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2010/10/21/f-dangerous-offender.html


The designation "dangerous offender" is reserved for Canada's most violent criminals and sexual predators.


Crown attorneys can seek the designation during sentencing and must show that there is a high risk that the criminal will commit violent or sexual offences in the future.


Thomas Svekla, seen in the back of an RCMP cruiser after a 2006 court appearance, was declared a dangerous offender in May 2010.Thomas Svekla, seen in the back of an RCMP cruiser after a 2006 court appearance, was declared a dangerous offender in May 2010. (CBC) The designation carries an immediate sentence of imprisonment for an indeterminate period, with no chance of parole for seven years.


Canada's dangerous offender laws have their roots in the 1947 Habitual Offender Act, which dealt solely with offenders with lengthy criminal records, and the 1948 Criminal Sexual Psychopath Act.


In 1977, the designation "dangerous offender" replaced both "habitual offender" and "dangerous sexual offender."


Changes to the Criminal Code of Canada in 2008 require some repeat offenders to prove that they are not a danger to society, instead of putting the burden on the Crown.


That reverse onus makes it easier to designate some repeat offenders as dangerous offenders, which effectively can put them behind bars for life.


Dangerous offenders can apply for parole after seven years, but the indeterminate sentence usually equals a life sentence.


The 2008 amendments put the onus on the criminal to prove that he or she is not dangerous, if convicted three or more times of violent crimes or sex crimes.


Recently, Crown prosecutors have unsuccessfully sought the dangerous offender designation for serial drunk drivers.
Who are dangerous offenders?


The most recent government statistics, from the Correctional Service of Canada in April 2009, state there were 415 people labelled as dangerous offenders. All but 20 were still behind bars.


Since then, several criminals have been designated dangerous offenders, but the statistics aren't up to date.


Only a small number of people are designated dangerous offenders each year, but the number is climbing. From the time the designation was created in 1977 until 2000, the number of dangerous offender designations in any one year exceeded 20 only three times, CSC numbers show.


Since 2000, there were only two years that saw fewer than 20 designations.


In both 2007-08 and 2008-09, 30 people received dangerous offender designations.


A 2002 Correctional Service of Canada profile of 179 dangerous offenders shows that 85 per cent had committed sex offences, while only three per cent were convicted of a homicide.


There are currently no female dangerous offenders in Canada and only two women have ever been so designated.


Marlene Moore committed suicide in prison in 1988. Lisa Neve had her designation lifted in 1999 and was freed after serving her sentence.


Aboriginal people account for 24 per cent of dangerous offenders but just four per cent of Canada's population.


Although the dangerous offender provisions can apply to all criminals, most people who are given such designations are in custody for sexual offences. For example, 85 per cent of dangerous offenders were sentenced for sexual assaults and 41 per cent involved pedophilia.


Dangerous offenders tend to target children, elderly or disabled people.


The reverse onus for repeat offenders would not apply to these individuals, as they would need at least three federal convictions before they could be subject to the legislation.


In addition to the 415 dangerous offenders, there are still 41 dangerous sexual offenders and nine habitual offenders in the system, under the pre-1977 designations. Twenty of those sex offenders are still behind bars.

 

NAME::  Steve

FROM::  Dangerous Offender

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 In Canada we have what's known as the designation of "Dangerous Offender".


This is when an individual commits a series of serious crimes and the courts determine that this individual is a danger to society.


I don't know if you have a similar system in the US, but stair should be declared a dangerous offender.

 

NAME::  Jason P Adams

FROM::  Tim Butler's Site

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 I'm glad to see you up and running again.

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  www.truthaboutstair.com

 SUBMITTED COMMENTS

Sign Here::

 

Hello To The Net Team members 

You will be glad to know that Tim Butler has updated one of the sites

he has used to expose ralph stair over the years. I urge each of you to take

a new look around.

www.truthaboutstair.com

Nice Job Tim, great going through the years of successfully pleasing God

to warn young families who are unaware of what will happen to them

should they come under R. G. stair's control.

 

I want to personally Thank you and Pearl for all your hard work, and incase some 

of the by standers have not concluded, this is our highest call of duty to help and 

protect those who would head the warnings. This is a manifestation of pure love 

right out of The Heart of GOD

 

The Net Team members are one voice to speak out against evil.

These are the true riches, to know the depths of God's Love agape, feeling

HIS presences means watching out for others. Hand picked to do His Work.

God Bless each and everyone of you.

Brother Michael Rowland 

 

 

NAME::  Steve 

FROM:: ralph's broadcast

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I was listening to ralph's broadcast this morning and I heard him utter these words, "Are you speaking of yourself brother stair? Yes. Is that clear? I'm speaking of myself. Speaking Of Myself "


I said Lord, let him say it again so I can get it on tape. Here it is.


(speakingofmyself.mp3)


John 7:18 (King James Version)


18 He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

 

NAME::  Noel Williams

FROM:: I Have Stopped

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 I have been listening to Mr. Stair, but I have stopped, I just felt that I was not real.

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  Mouth Of Lies

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  Well Rabishu, thank the Lord, or your god, you don't have to listen to "brother scare" 24/7/365, running his mouth as I had to while living there in that Hell hole. 

You can tell "brother scare" to shut his big fat mouth of lies while you are turning the dial.  That's what most of us did when we lived there.  We would turn on our TV's and digital media. 

I remember Mr. Stair always talking evil about you while in the dining hall brow-beating sessions.

 

NAME::  Rabishu (NJ)

FROM::  Brother Scare

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It's never failed for going on 20yrs. I turn on the short wave radio do a little scanning around the frequencies... and there is the voice of Brother Scare.

 

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: Study Time

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Here are a few more pictures for the kiddies. Oh and they will be all grown up before they can follow all of this, if they ever get that much time.

Pictures done in 1919

Download to your desktop and zoom in on these high quality shots.

www.thenetteam.net/larkin1.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin2.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin3.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin4.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin5.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin6.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin7.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin8.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin9.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin10.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin11.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin12.gif

www.thenetteam.net/larkin13.jpg

www.thenetteam.net/larkin14.gif

It take time to go through this stuff I have had this book for 35 years, oh yeah I read it many times. Many people have these books and can not read them.

No brag just fact. Everyone has a different gift that's all!!

Enjoy these beautiful pictures with verses to back it up.

Take them to a local printing companies and have these done right for your wall at the house.

Another option is to print them in 3 pieces.

 

 




NAME:: 

FROM::

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Study These and I will see you in a few years.

 




NAME::  Steve

FROM:: Stair's Death The Sign

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stair continues to talk about his "last and final trip" to Jerusalem, where supposedly he will confront the Pope and then be "martyred".


This sick little fantasy lives on in the mind of rg stair and those around him.


I've often said that stair's death is going to be the sign & seal that he was a false prophet.


When stair dies, the brethren will walk around the farm, "Yeap he was a false prophet. Yeap he was a false prophet."

 

NAME:: Paul NC

FROM:: Bible Study

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 Like you said below Brother Mike, "...every ten years they often update their viewpoints." I agree that we must ever have pliable hearts and humble spirits as that is the only kind the Holy Spirit can work with.
I am going to "dive into" the Brother's piece there that you listed (it will take me some time) and pray that the Holy Spirit will show me new Truths and "clarity", because there is always something new in His Holy Word to learn that we didn't see before. I am sure you agree.
And "...they must unlearn all of the trash they were conditioned to see...", I could not agree more with that.
I rejoice that Father's Spirit is "purging" and "pruning" His Salt around the globe to make it even more "savory" to Him.
I am so very grateful for His long-suffering mercy to His Children.
Peace to All

 




NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM:: Bible Site

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That was some work putting up that information. A very good start. Most people don't know what you are talking about in these passages.

Only a few dive into these complicated discussions with never ending forks in the road.

Many men have given a great deal of their lives to understanding Bible prophecy and every ten years they often update their viewpoints.

Half the reason is they must unlearn all of the trash they were conditioned to see by their universities before they can uncover the real truths.

Either way good work, shows effort Paul. Your view is a very common one.

 

NAME::  Paul NC

FROM::  Bible Subject

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 It has been my experience that even when people study a Bible subject thoroughly, they can still come up with totally different interpretations of the same Scriptures (as I have stated here on this Site before), but I have put the results of my study at http://www.imjustpassinthru.com/End_Times.htm that people can go through if they wish.


Just to highlight here the key differences I feel from what you listed Brother Mike, is that I believe that it the 70th week (this is all from Daniel) started at the end of the 69th, and that it was indeed Christ that made the "sacrifice and oblation to cease" by His Sacrifice, thus the abomination was the Jews sewing back up the temple veil and going right on with their abominable sacrifices, as though His Sacrifice meant nothing, which left their house desolate - 40 years later they are destroyed. I believe we are just waiting for the last 3 1/2 year period to begin before Christ' return.


I used to marvel how the folks that believe in a rapture instead of just the 1st resurrection used the same exact verses, but drew that completely different conclusion. So, I have stated many Scriptures at that page listed above, but it is up to The Holy Spirit to show us the correct meaning. If I am "all wet" then I hope He will reveal it to me.


All glory to God, and blessings to all of His Children.

 

NAME:: Bro Mike

FROM:: Bible Lessons 

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Here are verses that back up statements.

Anyone can recall scripture and give an Opinion but verses need to be used to make clear the reason for a viewpoint on such an issue.

Here is one example though I am not saying I agree with everything the guy has on his site he does back up what he says here.

Now I understand that there are 100's of views on this and I have read them for the last 40 years.

This is only one.

http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/endlesson2.html

" Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:," ( v 25-26)

Two distinctive periods are stipulated here. A period of the going forth of the "commandment to restore and build Jerusalem" and also another period of threescore (60) and two weeks (total 62) until Messiah is "cut off".

These have been fulfilled by the restoration of the temple in Jerusalem given by order of King Artexerxes Longimanus of the Medes and Persians in year 453 BC, when he gave the commandment to rebuild and restore Jerusalem to Nehemiah (see Neh 2:5).

Ok, so from the time the commandment to restore was given (in 453 BC) unto Messiah equals 483 years, or 69 weeks ! The commandment (453 BC) to the crucifixion (30 AD) = 483 years. Though Jesus was 33 years old when He was " cut off ", modern historians date the birth of Christ at 4 BC and His crucifixion in 30 AD. this is because of a miscalculation on the part of the Catholic monk, Dionysius, who in the 6th century devised our present calendar system.

Therefore Jesus actually began His ministry at 30 years of age (Luke 3:23) in 27 AD and was " cut off " in 30 AD, completing the 69 weeks.

The two part prophecy breaks down this way. One=7 weeks (49 years). Two=62 weeks(434 years). This is due to the wall and the city were built in the first seven weeks (49 years), and then another 62 "weeks" passed before the crucifixion.

We already know that when the "70 weeks" are completed we will have "everlasting righteousness" and that the prophecy will be concluded (v 24). This has obviously not happened yet. there still leaves out one "week", or period of seven years before the conclusion of this prophecy. Now, if you remember  in Matthew 24:15 that Jesus mentions this remaining week in refering to verse 27 of Daniel where he speaks of the "abomination of desolation", so we know that it has not yet come to pass right on up to the time that Jesus was still alive (30 AD). We are still waiting for the final "week" (period of seven years) to realize itself.

And now the last verse in chapter 9. " And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."(v 27)

From this we see that the final "week" will begin with the confirmation of a "covenant" that will be for the duration of the whole seven years, but that in the "midst" of the week ( 3 1/2 years into it ) that there is going to be a ceasing of sacrifice (a breaking of the covenant) and he shall make it "desolate" (it won't exist anymore). This breaking of the covenant will give rise to the period known as "The Great Tribulation".

 

Give me scripture or just call it an opinion I guess.

The writing above could take many hours to understand. Reread it many times and follow the verses and you will see that this man did his homework.

 

NAME: Paul NC

FROM: 70th Week

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 Greetings Brethren,


Personally, I believe the first half of the 70th week was the 3 and 1/2 years of Christ' ministry here on earth, and the 2nd half of the 70th week will begin when His two witnesses appear in the streets of Jerusalem, confirming His Covenant/Testimony as The Christ for 3 and 1/2 years - then Christ appears in the clouds of Glory at the end of that time to reign upon the earth. That is also the time of the 1st Resurrection.


ALL time between Christ' resurrection and His two witnesses first appearing in Jerusalem is just "filler time". Prior to the two witnesses, just some months before, the Beast' Antichrist will appear on earth with great "signs and wonders" to deceive the whole earth, of course, with the exception of God's Elect.


In spiritual terms, there is only that One period - 3 1/2 years, 1260 days, 42 months - same period, different events happening within it.


I know many will disagree with the above, and that is fine. I am just sharing, for edification, what I believe The Spirit has shown me.


May The Good Lord strengthen all of His Children for these last days, which are upon us.

 

NAME:: Steve

FROM:: Ontario

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 So what ralph did is he has had people shit in the garden and used that as fertilizer.


When you use cow manure basically you are dealing with just one compound - cows eat just grass so their waste doesn't have that many toxins.


Human beings eat literally thousands of compounds in their diet (not to mention pharmaceuticals if they are taking any) that's why it's not recommended to use their dung as fertilizer.


That stuff gets into the fruit / vegetables at the cellular level. It doesn't matter how much you wash it.


These people are probably scared for life. No kidding.

 




NAME:

FROM::

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Ch 5: The 1260 days

So far I have presented several ways in which people interpret the visions of Revelation including whether they place these events in the past or future, how they understand the nature and timing of the millennium, and how they place the order of the seven seals, plagues and trumpets relative to each other.
 
The final area of interpretation which I will discuss is also related to how people perceive the order of certain visions to take place. In this case, I refer to the order of the five periods of 3 ˝ years mentioned in Revelation 11 through 13. This category of interpretation is important because it is related to the total time span of the tribulation itself.
 
Although John uses different ways of describing these time spans, sometimes calling it 42 months, sometimes 1260 days, and sometimes a “time, times, and half a time,” all scholars agree that he is referring to span of 3 ˝ years (although some would argue a symbolic 3 ˝ years).
 
These periods are (KJV):
 
1) Reve 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot 42 months.
 
2) Reve 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy 1260 days, clothed in sackcloth.
 
3) Reve 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there 1260 days.
 
4) Reve 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
 
5) Reve 13:5 And there was given unto him [the Beast] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue 42 months.
 
Although five periods are mentioned, all recognize the second period of time the woman is in the wilderness as a recapitulation of the first. Therefore, there are only four distinct periods of 3 ˝ years.
 
These periods have been variously ordered over the centuries, but can be arranged in three distinct groups. In general, these groups are associated with the futurist, preterist, idealist and historicist views, but are not necessarily tied together. For example, I am preterist, but hold to a view similar to the FUTURIST’s.
 
 
 

The “7 Year” Model
 
Most futurists believe the tribulation of Revelation corresponds to the final seven years of a prophecy found in Daniel 9, infamously called “Daniel’s 70 weeks.” In the final seven years of this prophecy, a war takes place that can be tied to the events of Revelation, including Revelation 11:2. Thus the visions of Revelation are placed within this framework of seven years.
 
For example, The reign of the beast, commonly called the Antichrist, as well as the treading of the holy city by the Gentile nations will occur during the final 3 ˝ years.  This final 1260 days will be a period of greater tribulation than the first period.
 
Futurists generally believe the flight of the woman into the wilderness will correspond to the flight of Jewish-Christian converts to the city of Petra (based on another Old Testament prophecy) for the final 3 ˝ years of 'great tribulation' where they will be divinely protected by God.
 
Either to account for the total period of seven years, or because they are killed by the beast at the end of their 3 ˝ year ministry, many place the testimony of the two witnesses in the first period of 3 ˝ years.
 
 
 
 
 

The “Independent” Model
 
Preterists typically interpet the vision of Daniel’s 70 weeks differently than Futurists (more on this later), allowing them to separate the final 7 years of the prophecy from the time-spans mentioned in Revelation. More emphasis is placed on how closely the visions resemble events that transpired between 60 – 70 AD.
 
For example, a popular interpretation of Revelation 13 equates the beast with the Roman emporer Nero. Nero’s persecution of Christians began late in the year 64 AD after the burning of Rome and continued until his death is 68 AD. This period was almost exactly 3 ˝ years. Therefore the period of 3 ˝ years described in the Revelation 13 is related to these events.
 
On the other hand, the flight of the woman into the wilderness is correlated to the flight of Christians from Jerusalem just before the Roman-Jewish war of 67-70 AD. Again this is very close to the 3 ˝ years described in Revelation 12.
 
The treading of the holy city by the Gentile nations is also correlated to the period when the general and future emperor Vespasian led the Roman army in the conquest of Israel between 67-70 AD.
 
There is no consensus, however, to the identity and time-span of the testimony of the two witnesses.
 
 
 
 

 
The “Concurrent” Model
 
Both Idealists and Historicists equate all four periods, although for quite different reasons.  Idealists such as Gregory Beale believe the time period is symbolic of the period from Christ’s first advent to his second. Therefore the period represents our current age and is applicable to every church and every believer.
 
Historicists also believe the period is symbolic, but refers to a 1260 YEAR period, typically between 538 AD and 1798 AD (although the exact dates vary), apparently describing a period of “papal supremacy.”
 
 

 

 




NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM::  7 Seals, Trumpets, Bowls

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Keep in mind these are world wide events and effects.

Here is a simple look with differing points of view at the link below.

http://www.thepreteristpost.com/rethinking-revelation-4-the-7-seals-trumpets-plagues

 

 

 

 

NAME::  Glassboro NJ

FROM:: Japan fallout

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Japan Nuclear Radioactive Fallout Rev 8:10-11 "...and the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."


Could the radioactive fallout from the damaged Japanese nuclear reactors could fulfill Rev 8 prophecy?


"America on nuclear alert: Could fallout from Japan explosion reach U.S. West Coast?" (3:00 PM CST -- March 14, 2011)


Read the complete report here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366055/Japan-earthquake

-tsunami-Navy-crew-months-radiation-1-HOUR.html#ixzz1GbhdCOba

 

 

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  Human dung

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  Okay Brother Mike, now that you got me started on this subject.
 Human dung is used to fertilize the food garden at the sex farm.  Mana remembers when her and Sister Ann were in the garden placing compost on the plants when Mana picked up a big clump with her bare hands and asked Ann to look at it.  Sister Ann immediately told Mana to put it down and go wash your hands now, and use disinfectant. 

 Mana found out she was holding Human doo doo.
 

 I remember Mr. Stair was saying the Agriculture Dept. came out to inspect the procedure for composting Human dung and how impressed they were with our method of composting.  How they wanted to use our system as a pilot program.  Mr. Stair said he was told not to use the dung on the food plants and he promised, however, Mr. Stair again discounted the law and continued to use Human dung on food.  You see, it is hard now to get free compost and Human dung is plentiful so why not use it.
 

 It's no wonder so many people down there are sick, and I mean they are very sick.  I have never seen so many sick people in one place before. It is really sad, but their choice.
 

 I remember when I came out of her (sex farm) it took me over two years for my body to heal completely and I have heard similar stories from so many others that left the sex farm.

 

NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM::  Human Waste

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Medical Armageddon Being Paved With Human Feces In The Food Chain

                                                 

                                                                   By The Idaho Observer

 

KING 5 TV (Seattle) reported Nov. 20, 2000, that thousands of tons of sewage sludge (processed human waste) that has been renamed 'biosolids' are being spread on farms across the state and other states throughout the country.

The practice is cause for concern in three specific areas with regard to contamination of the food chain. Last month in The Observer we reported that traces of unmetabolized synthetic pharmaceutical drugs such as Prosac, antibiotics and hormones are turning up in the groundwater of Europe and North America. Levels of these substances are being detected because as much as 95 percent of synthetic drugs ingested are not metabolized and leave the body in their original forms through the urine and the feces. If prescription drugs are being detected in the water after it has been treated, we can infer that they will also be present in the biosolids being spread all over the crops of this nation.

The presence of metals in 'biosolids' is also a concern. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and Washington's Department of Ecology claim the metal content of biosolids processed at the state-of-the-art West Point Treatment Plant in Seattle is minimal.

West Point Manager Dick Finger explains that raw sewage is digested, heated and spun at his facility until it's just right for shipment to the fields. "We make sure the products that we produce are of a very high quality," said Finger.

Government agencies also claim that the potential for the spread of transmissible disease is low because the soil upon which it is deposited will kill any remaining pathogens. "Am I concerned about significant impacts to human health and the environment? No, not based on the information I've seen so far," says state Biosolids Coordinator Kyle Dorsey.

It is well known that fully decomposed material, even if it is human waste, is beneficial to the soil as organic matter and provides plants with the nutrients needed to grow healthy and yield abundantly. Treated sewage is not fully decomposed. For government agencies to claim that biosolids are safe is to ignore a tremendously important body of published science.

State of Washington 'biosolids' policy is likely contributing to the most ominous food supply disaster looming on the human horizon: Prions.

Prions are protein crystals that grow in grain fungi. Prions are nearly indestructible. We are being exposed to prions by eating animals such as cows that eat prion-contaminated grains. We are also being exposed to prions when we eat prion-contaminated grains.

Prions are crystals; crystals are attracted to electromagnetic energy; our brains produce electromagnetic energy; prions attracted to our brains cause lesions called encephalopathies; encephalopathies cause swelling of the brain; swelling of the brain causes dementia. Having prions in your brain also makes a person more open to suggestions that may be encoded through the transmission of TV and radio waves.

Prion disease, which was called 'kuru' when it was discovered in the in New Guinea in the early 1960s, is called 'mad cow disease' in cattle, 'whirling disease' in fish, 'scrapie' in pigs and sheep, 'wasting disease' in wild game and Creutzfeldt-Jacob disease in people (there is data to show that as many as 200,000 Americans who have been misdiagnosed with Alzheimer's disease may actually be suffering the ravages of prion disease).

If our food supply is already contaminated with prions, which there is overwhelming evidence to suggest that it is, then 'fertilizing' crops with human waste is going to exacerbate the situation.

'Every organism has a food supply that it depends upon for life. If the food supply is changed or contaminated, the organism must either adapt or become extinct,' Clyde Reynolds, ND, explained.

Scientists at Cornell University have serious concerns about the use of 'biosolids' as fertilizer. A team from Cornell tore apart the EPA's assumptions about the safety of the sludge.

Cornell found EPA's Cancer Risk Assessment is 'not protective,' and its enforcement and oversight is inadequate. It also found that pathogens may survive in soil, especially in cool, wet conditions.

The team from Cornell believes that there is no way to protect the public from leaching and flooding that may spread live pathogens.

Despite these justifiable concerns, Washington state allows sludge to be dumped in every county. There are no state-mandated testing procedures for pathogens once 'biosolids' are dumped.                                      

KING 5 test results

"Bob Thode spreads 22,000 wet tons of sludge over 600 acres at his Fire Mountain Farms in Lewis County. For that, he is paid more than $400,000 a year," reported KING 5 News.

Thode's neighbors are not impressed with his farming practices and equate living downstream from him to living downstream from a flushing toilet.

KING 5 Investigators decided to compare a sample of the sediment in one of Thode's ditches taken in 1994 (before 'biosolids') to one taken in the exact same place after six years of being licensed by the state to spread the sludge on his crops above the ditch.

Levels of all metals have increased drastically. KING 5 Investigators reportedly gave test results to Dorsey, who thought that pure 'biosolids' -- not ditch sediment was what KING 5 tested. Levels of pharmaceutical drugs were not tested, nor were the presence of prions tested.

"While our test is not conclusive, it has raised serious questions, and the state says more comprehensive testing may be needed," KING 5 concluded.

Plants absorb metals and other soil components so long as the particles are small enough. Therefore we have no idea how much metal may be ingested upon consumption of food grown in biosolid enriched soil.  "The government does not require food grown in sludge to be labeled," KING 5 concluded.

  12-31-00         

http://www.sdadefend.com/Health/E-COLI.htm

 

 

NAME::  Bro Rowland

FROM:: Dying Garden Plants

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Hello David

I think blood in eggs means they are fertile? Not sure.

I know this that when we left in 2001 ralph and chip were using the compost toilet excretions to add to the garden compost pile.

 

This seems like a bad deal to me. Maybe this is why the garden can not grow and if animals eat things grown out of this garden they die.

I don't know for sure it just seems like human doo doo should not go in the garden.

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM:: Smitten Harvest

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  Well Brother Mike, money may be able to buy your way out of jail now, but it will not buy your way out of Hell.  Maybe that is what the Bible means; There is no justice in the land".
 

 Also, the goats were dying at an alarming rate at the sex farm.  I can't tell you how many times I was called to the goat pens (pleural) to help try and save a goat.  I know at least one time Mr. Stair had to go and buy some Billy's because they all died.  Now why would God do this?
 

 Rest assured, Mr. Stair always gets his "double portion" (of goat milk), just like he will in Hell unless he repents.
 

 And if Mr. Stair doesn't have enough money already, he wants to sell some of the goats off. And I remember Brother Samuel was so angry he stormed to the radio room to rebuke Mr. Stair.
 

 Cow milk is in short supply also as there is not enough to make sour cream, cottage cheese or other cheese products most of the time.  Mr. Stair wants to sell off the beef cattle for extra money and he also wants to timber off the back forty for extra money.  I remember Chip gets very angry every time Mr. Stair mentions about selling the beef.
 

 Now the chickens were not doing too bad, considering how many eggs they use daily.  I remember the children in the kitchen would throw away any egg that had blood in them and believe me, there were a lot of 'em.
 

 And leftovers! Oh my goodness! I would venture to say there is about a ton of wasted food tossed out every five days.  You see, Mr. Stair tells us not to take the last spoonful of food, in other words, consider your Brother.  And so, wasted food is astronomical.  Most of the working Brothers look like tooth picks.
 

 I remember the potato bugs were on the attack and Mr. Stair said not to pick off the bugs as he seeks God.  Dave Morratto was fit to be tied up.  Well, needless to say we did not have a good potato picking that year, not that we did any year I remember.  Only the first year I was there did we have an excess of white potatoes.
 

 Pumpkins pumpkins everywhere.  Pumpkin squash, cake, pie and casserole every single day.  God provided them and so you do not want to complain.  I could only eat so much of it before you start to gag.
 

 Most of the fruit grown there is polluted with bugs and such.  My wife had a worm in her salad and such I don't remember how many times.  However, Mr. Eichel's fruit was very appealing and without bugs.
 

 I often wonder why God smites their harvest every single year.  Of course Mr. Stair will tell you it is because of your iniquity, as he has told us so many times.  Well, let me tell you, my wife and I haven't been so blessed since we "come out of her, my people".

 

NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM:: Money Success?

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Hi David and a big Hello to THE NET TEAM 

Yes David I heard you say that the crops would not grow one other time.

I didn't respond much about it, but somewhere in the scriptures this is what God said would be part of HIS judgment on the land the wicked.

Ralph is truly a wicked man.

Consider this once again, that ralph under pressure to confess his dirty lifestyle to the group in 2001, continued damning sermons to everyone around him.

Ralph still tried to keep up his sexually active appetite with as many of the same ones he had been using before he spilled the beans of his actions. Preaching damnation to everyone who questioned him stating that "Everybody Does It".

The judgment will only worsen now with crop failures to complete collapse of many things.

I stated years ago that ralph would not get out of jail just like that and be fully venerated with all charges dropped like had happened all of the other times ralph had ever gotten charged before.

I stated then and I will state it again "Ralph will never get out" Scott free Lilly white snow flake clean claiming all of his charges were lies.

I knew ralph would take his millions and get himself out of the jail cell he was in at the time of his arrest.

Money will always out do righteous judgment in the land today.

Bottom line ralph has no conscience.

 

NAME::  Dave Mull

FROM::  "Meal Barrels"

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 Well Brother Mike, I see you are reading from the Holy Scriptures and I understand.  However, Mr. Stair demands you send him all your money and all your living, "thus saith the Lord" says Mr. Stair.  And this is why my friend lived in abject squalor while Mr. Stair is living high off the hog.  Do you know how much food they have to buy down there to feed them people because the crops they grow do not yield enough. 

 Mr. Stair spends an enormous amount of money to buy food in bulk and I cannot imagine what they are going to do when they have to take the mark of the beast.  God smites their crops year after year, the only thing that grows well down there is garlic, onions and sweet potatoes. 
 

 I just cannot believe God wants you to send Mr. Stair all your money.  Mr. Stair is a lie from the pit of Hell.  Mr. Stair demands compliance and obedience from all his listeners or else he will cast you out of his inner circle and tell you to "go to hell". 
 Two people from Canada sent Mr. Stair large amounts of money and Mr. Stair goes into a rage mode because they will not send him the rest of their nest egg for their living.
 Mr. Stair is a covetous man of other men's silver and gold.  You will never see Mr. Stair give money to a poor widow woman unless they have given him lots of money first.  My wife Mana was never offered a penny by Mr. Stair when she became a widow woman, instead I helped helped her as well as our families.
 

 Make me a cake first, says Stair.  I have seen many "meal barrels" go empty and Stair lifted not a finger to help.
 

 You ought to be ashamed of yourself Mr. Stair and pay back four-fold what you have taken from the poor.  Read:  Luke 19:8 And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore [him] fourfold.
 

 You understand what is going on here?  I know you do Brother Mike, but Mr. Stair does not have eyes to see or a heart to perceive.

 

NAME::  Good Money-Tithes

FROM:: $=Mammon+

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It is clear that the wOoden cHurch structure today serves Mammon. One way to prove this out is in the BIBLE itself.

For example when the TITHE command was given in Levitcus we see that only food items qualified.

I use the term qualify because anything else would be disobedience to GOD's command.

Let us read:

Levitcus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD.

32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD.

Now here is another verse in Levitcus where God commanded payment for violations in THE LAW with money. I am bringing this verse out to show the lies of the religious preachers today who say money was not used, rather goods grown in the field were the methode of exchange.

Just one bare faced lie after another.

Levitcus 5:15 If a soul commit a trespass, and sin through ignorance, in the holy things of the LORD; then he shall bring for his trespass unto the LORD a ram without blemish out of the flocks, with thy estimation by shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for a trespass offering:

So we see that SILVER was used during their day and time.

Not everyone tithed like Jesus he was a carpenter not a herdsmen or farmer.

Jesus never Tithed to the Levitical system as ordained by God sent to the Levitical cities not temples.

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The religious people serve money, therefore every intention for what they say and do is centered around Money and the lies they preach to twist the thinking.

Paul said that the Gospel is preacher without CHARGE.

Paul said he would rather die than to become a burden on the children, begging for financial support and scripture points out how Paul had the care of all of the CHURCHES on him while he continued his tent making business.

Paul did take up a collection from those who said they loved the message of Jesus to give to starving brothers in other regions being oppressed for their faith.

Any leader today commanding tithe at a beginning level of 10% and from there up to be an obedient Christian is a self serving liar who cares not for the truth.

They serve their bellies.

 

NAME::  Bro Rowland 

FROM::  Gift & Identities

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A big warm wonderful Hello to THE NET TEAM members:

A want to point out something about disruptive posts that we have all witnessed off and on over the years. People who conceal their identity, do this for various reasons.

One reason is to inject information into the group to help expose evil practices at THE OVERCOMER farm and not uncover the people who would otherwise be punished and attacked by the bullying leaders.

One thing I detest is a bully. My eyes start bleeding with outrage.

Bullying can come from women as well as men.

Young children even bully their parents like in the case with Esau.

So bullies have to be dealt with in many ways as there are many forms of these manifestation in the dark world we live. We shine as lights and these spirits flee.

The people living today  are  growing up into darkness and many have never witnessed the light. I put it this way because unless a child (A Soul) can  be taught by example, all of the earth shaking words of "Jesus saves" and the message of salvation have little meaning. 

"Preach the word in season and out is not" limited to "do as I say" and don't look at what I do. Never mind that man behind the curtain?

Christians need to be examples and this is their message-sermon-conversation-preaching that they should live THE GOSPEL.

To do this we all must be in our places. The gifts of God are yummy to your tummy not disruptive and heady. So when any of us manifest a Gift from GOD there in no contest by the Body.

When people conceal their names in posts here at THE NET TEAM for the wrong reasons posing as Godly, they often spread discord. Willingly or unwillingly.

Discord is what they were taught and all that they have learned so far and are easily taken by spiritual wickedness in "high places". (Their Bank of Knowledge)

High Places----Mental conditioning rules instead of Godly Law and Order.

The goal of the Godly in to be in unity. These two are enemies.

One form of discord comes in an accusation that seems to always accompany the spirit of LORDSHIP bullying.

Another way of breaking the harmony in the group is for those who conceal their identity to run there continual line of reasoning without ever addressing those who ask them questions.

As THE BODY OF CHRIST we answer to one another, not answering is a form of stubbornness aside from just not knowing what to say.

Take Charles for an example, when Charles commented in a joking way that could be taken for any number of expressions, I called him down for it and he immediately corrected me so I knew where he was coming from.

I stand corrected. I like that.

Men and Women of God are well able and prepared to give an answer.

When they are not ready to give an answer and refuse to answer one another they are just like VASHTI who was in rebellion when the King called for her.

Vashti had a chance an God replaced her.

Choose life and don't follow her example whether you are a Brother or a Sister struggling to please God.

 

 

NAME::  Sister Rachel

FROM::  The Door

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  Thanks so much for the advice and opinions! They help a lot! I appreciate hearing them!
"So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened."
Luke 5:9-10

 

NAME::  Bro Chuck S

FROM:: Name isn't Schultz

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Rachel, sorry, my last name isn't Schultz.


To me, the best way to deal with your relative is simply to keep the line of communication open via phone or letter.  There is not much you can do to convince him to leave the farm; that will happen when he's ready.  When he is ready, he's going to need help and a contact on the outside is really, really helpful.  Even if you don't have the financial means to help, you might know someone who knows someone.


Our belief system is one of the strongest things in the world.  That's what makes people do what others wouldn't normally.  It isn't difficult to point out the problems with the churches, give them an option by telling folks to "come out of her, My people" and to throw in that Jesus is coming.  Finally, when you come out, you're probably going to go somewhere, if you can find the right place.  It's just natural to look for like minded people.

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM:: Spiritual Light

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1 Tim 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

1Cor 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

Est 17 For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.

4 And let the maiden which pleaseth the king be queen instead of Vashti. And the thing pleased the king; and he did so.


This is a generation of role reversing people.

I know women who think because they read the Bible better than their husbands that this puts them in more LIGHT to run the home GOD'S way.

That is totally crazy but this is what they think and live.

 

If a woman does not want to Be a Queen but rather wants to be King over men then she is cast out of THE BODY OF CHRIST just like Vashti.

This is a long process of being deliberately stubborn so let us all remember that God is not just throwing people out over nothing.

Stay in your place is the command God has given us ALL.

Same goes for men who are brothers in CHRIST.

If you brothers don't stop letting your wives run you around like she is in charge you are actually letting her down in the spirit and will lose her and yourselves.

Wives need their husbands to rule there houses and like wise husbands need wives who will strengthen there lead by offering their insight in a proper way.

Which I might add is very often  required for a man to be all he can in Christ.

When a man loves his wife he listens to her side or way of looking at things, yet HE must make the final choice.

 

 

NAME::  Sister Pearl Butler

FROM::  Contact

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Rachel, there are so many things that are hard to explain as to why people follow R. G. Stair. If you would like to talk to me or my husband Tim, we would be more than willing to share what we know and understand. Please let Mike know and he can give you our contact information.

Pearl    email      sisterpearl@remnantshope.com

 

NAME::  Bro Rowland

FROM:: Rachel

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Oh Brother Mike, would it be possible to get the email adress of "Chuck S."?

If his last name is Schultz, Id like to contact him, because I think he's someone who could help me. If you need to give him my email, go for it! I just would like to get in touch with him. Thanks, and sorry if its a bother, if thats not his last name.

Rachel              Email     r_cashin@hotmail.com
 

 

NAME::  M.Rowland

FROM:: Mocking Posts

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Charles S has let me know that he was mocking the media. Glad to here you were not mocking God Charles but rather the hypocritical system of mainstream media. Here is Charles answer back

Thanks Charles it's good to know not everyone is without understanding.

 

 

 

Charlie S. Wrote:

"With due respect I think what Chuck S. is doing is comparing "RG" Stair with a certain celebrity who's been in the news lately, going completely off the deep end with open cocaine binges (compared to "ginseng" which boosts sex drive) and companying with porn stars. In his extensive TV interviews he says that he is, "Winning. Duh." while it is obvious that he is not.  It may be mocking but it is an accurate comparison."

 

NAME::  Rachel

FROM:: Hello NETTEAM

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You don't know me, but if you have the time and goodness in your heart, Id love to hear everything you can tell me about the overcomers farm in Waltersboro, South Carolina. I read your testimony online, because just recently, after lots of research, I discovered a long lost family member of mine is involved in their commune. I'm glad you posted your testimony for people to read. I think its very important for people to be warned away from dangerous places that look deceivingly good and normal. 

You've been through a lot, and I cant imagine the toll of living in that kind of environment would have on a person. Can you tell me what the final straw was for you, was it because all Stairs crimes were brought into light? I can believe he's still at it after all that? 

I mean, why would anyone support him and lose all their money to him when there's so much information about him out there. I grew up in a protestant church, and I have my own qualms about organized religion, but the wacked out doctrine that he feeds people with! Its so far from being biblically correct! He can quote scripture all he likes, but he's leaving out a whole bigger picture!!

I cant pray enough for all the people trapped by his brainwashing! Ive gotta run, but please write me back if you have the time. Id really appreciate your time and opinion on what the best strategy would be for reaching my family member.

Thank you so much!
-Rachel    

 

NAME::  Bro... Michael

FROM:: Bible Thumpers-Readers?

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Okay let's go back to THE WHITE HORSE that is the first of the four horses unleashed to bring destruction and finally bring and end to THIS AGE.

I put that article up for the reading of the various viewpoints and does not mean that I agree with them.

I agree with what Tim said found in the Bible that the destroying horses are on the move and have been for our lifetime.

We are going to see them all.

All of this other speculation, more often than not generally leads to endless combinations of possibilities for end time scenario's that can only be understood if those attentively listening followers are under a GREAT TEACHER-MINISTER.

It's not that hard. All we need is order in THE CHURCH and THAT is not a wooden structure.

Talk to us Lisa about what gifts you have.

Are you a Minister?

 

 

NAME::  Grapevine

FROM:: 1000 year reign

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 Florida reader writes in his lengthy expose of the 1000 year reign, that its not literal but only symbolic.


When I read Revelation 20.1 thru 20.7 it specifically mentions the 1000 yr reign of the Messiah 6 times. The finality of the 1000 yr reign of Jesus is when Satan, the fallen ruler of the kingdoms of the world is allowed to be unloosed for a season at the end of the 1000 yr reign. After this act God allows Satan to deceive some on the earth to make war with the camp of Christ.  God sends fire down to at the battle of Gog and Magog and defeats and ultimately destroys Satan and his Kingdom.


The Florida reader adds the period of the 1000 yr reign with the next chapter of Rev, that is 21, in the same lump. Chapter 21 says there is a new heaven and earth, which was the result of the purging of the earth by fire.


2Pe 3:7  But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.


Rev 20.9 reiterates that after the 1000 yr reign of Christ, fire is going to come down from heaven and devour the enemy and then in Rev 20.11 the great white throne judgement begins. After Rev 20.11 the New Heaven and Earth are proclaimed in Rev 21.


One statement I agreed with Florida reader, the Kingdom of Jesus is an eternal continuous reign.  Yes, the 1000 yr reign and after in the new Heavens and Earth are both ruled by Christ Jesus.


My final thoughts regard the progression of the Kingdom of God on Earth.  Concerning this passage, its pretty clear how the Christ will rule on earth when he returns. When Jesus defeats death on the earth then comes the end of the age of this heaven and earth. Afterwards Christ rules in the new heaven and new earth.


1Co 15:23  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24  Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

NAME::  M. Rowland

FROM:: Bible Reader

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Florida Reader (Lisa) wrote:

"I used to see it the way you do...However,  I no longer do and it was indeed an eye opener for me... At the least perhaps, it will create a hunger in us all to maybe seek and search a little more..."

I don't think you are understanding most of my reasoning and you have misquoted me but its okay I guess as long as you are studying.

Most of us here have little idea what subject you are focusing on.

If you want to regain our discussion we must address the white horse remarks first before analyzing so many other matters.

Hat's off to your diligent search of the Bible, a workman who need not be ashamed.

Again some of the things you assume I believe, you commented that you don't look at it this way.

Please stay on subject or come back to a center point if you wish to briefly branch out as you have lost the entire group in the collection of verses.

Better yet just make a statement before or after the verses so we don't have to work so hard at finding what YOU have written found next to the verses you quote.

This is becoming very hard to tell what is being said.

Also what church group do you belong to? This might help us to see your point of view quicker. Like are you a Jehovah's Witness or a Catholic or what Baptist Church do you most agree with.

Are you a church Sunday school teacher?

Give us your status other than a reader.

Those of us here at THE NET TEAM wish you well and pray that whether you are right or I am right on various subjects at random, does not change the plan of salvation for our souls.

We are all human being learning who God is, this is the main thing.

Great work with a lot of effort.

Again come back on topic and we might regain a few who are not completely lost in the conversation, including myself.

 

NAME::  Florida Reader

FROM:: Judging  Fruit

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Dear Brother Mike and all others interested in matters of these most deceiving times, please bear with me as this is pretty long...


Regarding the judging of the fruit... Yes, we judge the fruit, we must seperate ourselves from all false teachings and brethren, who may be in error due to ignorance or on pupose, because we are commanded to...


Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


The End time Harvest mentions that JESUS makes the final determination...
Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
***On the LAST DAY***...
Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable


Luke 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
2 Timothy 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with *them* that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.


Rev. 22:10And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: * for the time is at hand*.
11He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
12And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.


ALSO, Regarding the 1000 yrs, I respectfully submit to you that WE KNOW from scripture, OUR GOD is the owner of  EVERYTHING!... and EVERYONE!!!
Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.


I used to see it the way you do...However,  I no longer do and it was indeed an eye opener for me... At the least perhaps, it will create a hunger in us all to maybe seek and search a little more...


For instance when we read that GOD owns the cattle on a 1000 hills. It was used as a figure of speech. The masses , in a time when and since the KJV was printed they gravitated toward this error in their thinking by...
(using modern mathmatical meanings instead of what was in use at that time in history when Jesus walked the earth)...


See, Geometry was in use up until the 7th century. The Zero "0" was an arab concept to  aid in calculations to get a more rounded off precise number.... This got everyone off on a tangent for such things as the 3rd reich and millenium reign on the earth... however,  it's a new, old age philosophy, (zionism on the earth)...  it's not scriptural at all.


He owns the whole world, not just those hills. Thousand  in scripture is used to describe an infinite amount, without number, can't begin to count, eternity, etc. Look at all the passages for thousand... When Jesus fed the 5000 it did not include all who were there...


There will not be a reign of Peace on earth EVER... Remember scripture tells us that when they *say* peace and safety then ... cometh sudden destruction...
1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


Daniel 12:1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.


2And *many* of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to ***everlasting *** life, and *some* to shame and ***everlasting*** contempt. THE LAST DAY... TIME stops, The World is destroyed... Period... ETERNALLY!


*** This is on the SAME DAY at the same moment in the twinkling of an eye....  JESUS comes for  us only once, this is for all eternity... for us in gladness, but for unbelievers aand those who don't want HIM to return and end their reign, HE'll be a thief in the night ... but we are of the day, do you see? We are awaitingHIM...


3And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars ***for ever and ever***.
9And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.


JESUS did the unsealing... Revealing Truth of THE KINGDOM which is not of THIS world...to all who would hear..


Luke 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
That was then ... at the very beginning of the end, and the beginning of the last days...


Acts 2:17
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: this spoke to what Joel said...


2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.


1 Peter 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these *last times* for you,.... speaking of JESUS...


The Inspired WORDS are LIVING WORDS and were revealed to men, hence THE NEW TESTAMENT by the Apostles including John the Revelater.


So you see where I am coming from now, folks???  we are in the last of the last days...


Today is the day of salvation... There will be no next day, make your election sure..
If there is a next day, then it wasn't JESUS... Be ready now, we are to live for JESUS today,
it's really all we have. Maybe most of the people who are going to Heaven are there already???


2 Peter 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:


a second chance....  now, someone please show me where that is in scripture...


Which brings me to speak to the original subject...


Horses are indeed running and have been since John penned the Words of Revelation...
We run the race, and fight the good fight of faith.


Philippians 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.


Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


1 Peter 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:


1 Timothy 6:12 Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.


There are MANY ANTI-CHRISTS. The whole (world) system is in that spirit... When satan enters into that last one... HE will be revealed to us Then JESUS ressurrects us...


2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2 Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:




1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:


2 Peter 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.


So we know to look up.... look to JESUS for in HIM we have NO Worries....


So RUN from those men who teach error, cling and look only to JESUS and HIS Living WORDS...


Also if I might add something regarding the 5th seal Martyrs.. The way I see it they have been crying out now for all ages, for what of Abel and the others mentioned in Hebrews Chapter 11 and all the disciples and apostles all the way up to today, through time who were killed for not going along with the Mega, popular and the... "in great error"...  crowd?




2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Revelation 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.


I am looking forward to your posts...


PRAY
Blessings and Peace

 

NAME:: Brother Mike

FROM:: The Sickle

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Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

One thing I would like to point out on those of Gods people who are harvested at this time, that by comparison to the wine press of the wicked this is not a 50:50 proportion as some might think.

If the time is to be like the days of Noah with only 8 souls saved or like the days of Sodom when Lot got out we must conclude that like Jesus mentioned

"where two or three are gathered together"

will be just how few that their be that find the straight and narrow way leading to life everlasting.

So few that most will face their trials unto the end alone with no more than a handful around them.

Mainstream  thought gives the illusion that millions and millions out of every cHurch will be excepted.

Now let us never forget that after all of the bad days that come and go with killing, fire and brimstone that 50-65 percent of the people who experienced this time will live right through it on into the New Age of 1000 years.

They may not all be righteous but they will be given a chance to do right as God is fair with ALL.

The only way anyone is going to help in the harvest is to Judge who are God's.

We will judge angels.

It's time to stop saying no one knows who God's children are.

This attitude that no one can judge leaves the door open so wide that the devil himself can be saved.

Rotten fruit is by far the most wide spread and after we consider the words of Jesus who told us many things like: most will be following on into destruction, it should be clear that the false cHurches are speaking the lies that many will be following the Lord.

Rotten fruit stinks so bad that it becomes difficult to notice the good fruit. 

The pruning is on now with so many many many on the side of popular view points.

Those who join the the popular way of following religious formulas for acceptance are being bundled up to be burned.

The cleansing of the earth from that noxious stench of rotten fruit will not come before God's people become sick to death of it enough to cry out to HIM for relief.

Dear Florida Reader this article is in no way directed at you personally and I want to say that your post is very nicely put. Your intent is clearly Good.

 

NAME:: Florida Reader

FROM:: Summer Fruit

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 Summer Fruit


Jeremiah 48:32
O vine of Sibmah, I will weep for thee with the weeping of Jazer: thy plants are gone over the sea, they reach even to the sea of Jazer: the spoiler is fallen upon thy summer fruits and upon thy vintage.


We all need to get our helmets on... And Be Blessed of GOD...




Rotten Fruit is rotten. These are the days of summer fruit and we know Summer fruit bruises very easily. Only our Lord truly knows whose are HIS. He will NOT lose one.


John 6:[38] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
[39] And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
[40] And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on&#65279; him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


We need to cry out to the Lord as never before for HIS wisdom to see with spiritual eyes all the hypocrisy (meaning actors on a stage), and trickery happening. We all need to fall in love with HIS words and try our best to apply them to our lives.


James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally,&#65279; and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.


Life is hard and getting harder by the day... Keep on walking by faith.


1 Corinthians 15[57] But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. [58] Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know&#65279; that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


All I can say is the remnant are scattered worldwide and it seems like we are alone, for there are not many around, but He will not forsake us. He is a very present help in times of trouble.


Ezekial 34: 6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was&#65279; scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.
12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.


We all should be learning how to be Christ like.


Like the days of Noah and of Lot, I guess we need to be as autonomous as possible here in the wilderness.


God began with the Family...Trust in HIM for all, and obey.
Then all will be well.


Pray and pray some more, He hears our hearts indeed. HE knows how to care for us.


Blessings and Peace

 




NAME::  Brother Rowland

FROM:: Clues & Clouds

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#1 The first horse signifies the lust for conquest which is commonly the cause of war.

#2 Each of the four horses effect the entire earth.

#3 The first horse has a Bow not a "Sword"

#4 The white horse signifies triumphant warfare

#4 Christ and his followers conquer by dying; Satan and the evil powers by killing

#5 The 1st horse wears the crown of the conqueror 

#6 Christ wears a Royal DIADEMA 

#7 Christ has many crowns and HE was crowned from eternity. Everlasting 

#8 The 1st horse rider possesses a bow but Christ possesses no bow; a weapon of war is not part of Christ's being.

#9 Christ's  Gospel has been preached as a witness unto all nations for 2000 years.

#10 The idea that the 1st horse that is white, and therefore is the gospel sent out at the end of days is what modern ministries would have you believe so you can pay for their new satellite networks.

#11 Most religious leaders today would have us thinking that the first horse being Christ conquering the nations by the power of the gospel is what will cause Christians to be slain over.

#12 Christians have been slain for 2000 years now, so the idea that some soon to be white horse rider will bring this about at the end is ridiculous.

#13 Religious leaders try word tricks like Jesus said he has not come to bring peace but a sword so this is like the 1st horse who has a BOW? What crazy reasoning.

#14 The universal thought that the 1st white horse rider has been riding the victorious message of Christ, for almost ever,  is a gospel of the Catholic Church and does not fit into the end time unleashing of four horses sent to destroy.

My View point only and everyone is entitled to theirs.

The Bow that the 1st horse has is the symbol of military might and is not the sword of the "Word of God" to smite the nations.

The bow represents the united nations peace keeping military conquering force.

"THE GOD OF FORCES"

 

 

NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM::  Word Meanings

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Hello Florida reader

It looks like some good research right out of the Bible. Those slain for the cause of Christ in Revelation is a very significant part of prophecy as they are very dear to the heart of God.

After all of the destroying horses come through we see in the verses after that HIS little one's who were killed, being mentioned.

Some will be alive when Christ returns though not ALL Christians, otherwise who would fulfill these words of GOD??

Like you said White is a sign of the good guys much like the title of a PREACHER should mean he is Holy, however we all must remember that not all that glitters is gold and Satan disguises himself as a good guy on a white horse or a title like Pastor etc.

Beyond any doubt The White Horse should always be the good horse or God horse.

"We don't want to be fooled by colors and titles so if the fruit is rotten what should we say then?"

My comment to you is a question?

 

NAME::  Florida Reader

FROM::  Words have meanings:

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WHITE - PURE, Must be Jesus, for Didn't He say "Vengence is mine"?  The non-violent Victory of HIS TRUTH.


RED - red sea, Esau and Edom, red-coats, Blood, Plagues, Dragon, sins, wine, Scarlet beast, and WAR, this color is also associated with socialism, Nazi's and Comm-UN-ism. It is also the base for names like :
Rockefeller (red-leaf) Canada...
and Rothschild (red-shield) Zionism... illuminati...


Black - EVIL, Dark Ages and also Witchcraft (did you know vatican means devination?)... And don't forget those people in worldly high places with their worship of satan or lucifer, who they feel got a bum rap because GOD Cast him out of heaven... plagues, lies, error, commandments or traditions of men instead of Truth.


Green - naive (programmed), envy, money, dis-ease, biological warfare, mother earth / ecology worship = panism, all emerging together, melting cauldron of ad-mixtures of all religious faiths.


note: A fourth part of the earth, that's only 40 percent...
it is not global...


any thoughts on these?


Blessings and Peace

 

 

NAME::  Florida Reader

FROM::  Martyr's

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                                                   Martyr's from Holy Scriptures



Hebrews 11


1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.


4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.


5By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.


6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:


10For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.


11Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.
12Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable.
13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.


14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,


18Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:
19Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.


23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.


24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.


27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.


32And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:
33Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions.


34Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens.
35Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:


37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;
38(Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.


We will be made perfect altogether on The Last Day... Amen, Even so, come quickly, Lord Jesus!


Blessings and Peace

 

NAME:: Florida Reader

FROM::Anti-Christ

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 I am Sorry everyone, for That book reference... Please forgive me...


I agree to stay with Scriptures, for there is enough there to keep us busy for the rest of our lives...
 
Thanks for pointing these matters out, I should have researched it more...  It was the fact that people have and will suffer for the Faith...  and it also stated that the Catholic faith was indeed Anti-Christ.


We know that one is either For Christ or Anti-Christ, can't have it both ways...
We also know if you are not a saint when alive, you definitely won't be after you die!


And yes, I agree that we should be stirred up, and always contending for the Faith!


Blessings and Peace

 




NAME::  Brother Mike

FROM:: 15th Century Answers?

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Hello Group Brother Mike Here

I would like to comment on Florida Readers response to deep messages hidden in the 4 horsemen. First I want to thank him or her in Florida for pointing out that they did not know everything but only wished to keep everyone stirred up in minding the things of God.

This is a good thing, However using this book by Catholic priest Foxe to back up the Bible or use that text as if it were equal to THE BIBLE is not going to work in the long run.

You see the Catholics like to "Saint" all of the dead ones in their organization and I fear that this might have been the way THE BOOK was used, however wrong.

I do not feel that a Book written in the 15th century about Christians dying in persecution has any basis for our discussion of BIBLE Symbolism interpretations.

The clues are in the scripture and other passages will shed the light needed.

Not everyone is capable of this type of deep comprehension and if they are often can not put it into words let alone stand before an audience of people delivering the contents of what could end up sounding like endless BIBLE synopsis.

"GrapeVine" has offered some thoughts along the lines of Bible oriented conclusions so it looks like the Florida Readers has succeeded in stirring up some of the others.  

 

NAME::  John Foxe

FROM:: British Catholic Priest 

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John Foxe (1517[1] – 18 April 1587) was an English historian and martyrologist, the author of what is popularly known as Foxe's Book of Martyrs, an account of Christian martyrs throughout Western history but emphasizing the sufferings of English Protestants and proto-Protestants from the fourteenth century through the reign of Mary I.

Widely owned and read by English Puritans, the book helped mould British popular opinion about the Catholic Church for several centuries.[2]

Foxe was so bookish that he ruined his health by his persistent study.

Foxe was ordained a priest by his friend Edmund Grindal

 

NAME::  Foxe's Book of Martyrs

FROM:: Persecution of Mary

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                                                       Accuracy

 John Foxe based his accounts of martyrs before the early modern period on previous writers, including Eusebius, Bede, Matthew Paris, and many others; and his accounts of these early events were no more accurate than his sources.

Foxe's great contribution, however, was his compilation of the English martyrs from the period of the Lollards through the persecution of Mary I. Here Foxe had primary sources of all kinds to draw on: episcopal registers, reports of trials, and the testimony of eyewitnesses, a remarkable range of sources for English historical writing of the period.[20]

Nevertheless, Foxe often treated this material casually, and any reader "must be prepared to meet plenty of small errors and inconsistencies."[21] Furthermore, Foxe did not hold to later notions of neutrality or objectivity. He made unambiguous side glosses on his text, such as "Mark the apish pageants of these popelings" and "This answer smelleth of forging and crafty packing."[22]

The material contained in the work is generally accurate, although selectively presented. Sometimes he copied documents verbatim; sometimes he adapted them to his own use. Although both he and his contemporary readers were more credulous than most moderns, Foxe presented "lifelike and vivid pictures of the manners and feelings of the day, full of details that could never have been invented by a forger."[23] Foxe's method of using his sources "proclaims the honest man, the sincere seeker after truth."[2

 

 

NAME::  Illinois Grape Vine

FROM:: White Horse Counterfeit

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 I was looking at the horsemen topic, which is in Rev 6 and Zech 6 if I remember correctly. Only offering anything new to the subject is why I write, as many had lots of good comments.  

In Zech. the four horsemen (v5)are the four spirits and in color correlate to the ones in Rev.  I agreed with Brother Rowland in his statement that the white horse was a counterfeit of the King of Kings, the Lord Jesus.  These horse are sent into the earth before Jesus return, to me each of the four horses equates to an evil purpose. 
  

 The white horse in Rev has a bow and goes forth to conquer and in Zech it follows the Black horse into the north country.  In my limited revelation, the white horse is the Religious systems that have sprang out of one central religious system.  Some of the offshoots are Protestants, Episipalian, Anglican, and Islam (after the 1700ad). White representing purity and righteousness and guess who wears white in clothing and all images regarding it, but now has a false cloke and even trying to conquer the whole earth, RCC.  Catholicism implies a universal salvation and with its influence and power, it has through Inquisitions and other means tried to conquer throughout its existence. 
  

 The Black horse is in the North (Zach 6.6) and Rev 6. says the black horse has pair of balances and scales.

 Black Represents Capitalism with the greed, materialism and excess.  This Spirit rides to the North and in Zach 6.8 quiets the Spirit of God, which is what we have seen with materialism.  How hard is it to enter into the Kingdom of God or you can't serve God and manna (pursuits of accumulation).  Capitalism and its pursuits have also strengthen the false White horse in the pursuits of religious corruption, ie.,telling the called believers "all is well", while their garments are spotted.  But don't hurt oil and wine, means the Kingdom of Capitalism will have its end but basic needs will still be available for a remnant.  America and other capitalist nations are being undermined by the Powers who want a counterfeit New world order, which will come similarly to the red horse when it also rides in on a Red beast.  I hope to share more about the Red and Pale and beast gov't if there is any interest and if God wills.  Come Lord Jesus


Regarding my comments on Stair pertaining to judging and warning others of his corrupt pattern. I can't say its a wrong, its just must be done carefully.  Gods Kingdom is about solutions and not just addressing the problems.  God says don't bring reproach on the ministry and greater condemnation comes on those who lead and teach others.  I hope we all learn from one others mistakes.  I would certainly think Ralph should be taken out of leadership of the farm and put the farm into an elderships control.  Allowing him to do the Radio ministry could be permitted, however one without the other would cause both to come tumbling down, for the corruption is deep.   
 

 

NAME::  Florida Reader

FROM:: Read Foxes Book of Martyrs...WHITE HORSE

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All will be well...
I don't know everything, Jesus does reveal to us in HIS Timing... My intent is to learn and share... for this is my life's passion.

                               Read Foxes Book of Martyrs...

 White Horse is to *signify* Believers...  John is already our companion in tribulation.. Remember, Our weapons of warfare are not carnal,flesh and blood... we are in Spiritual battles... We have a bow but no arrows ... and as for a crown why we will lay it at HIS feet... It's by HIS Faith ALONE... Not of ourselves...

Indeed Strong Meat To Mr. Rowland and Strong Meat:

Thanks for commenting and I did read both articles...

These are warnings all need to read and heed...

Strong meat is very good for our souls...



A few points from what scripture says:
Jesus Overcame the World ....so says my KJV Bible and
1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.


Revelation 1
 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and *signified* it by his angel unto his servant
 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
 3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.  Continue reading is good..


White Horse is to *signify* Believers...  John is already our companion in tribulation.. Remember, Our weapons of warfare are not carnal,flesh and blood... we are in Spiritual battles... We have a bow but no arrows ... and as for a crown why we will lay it at HIS feet... It's by HIS Faith ALONE... Not of ourselves...


God (Jesus is HIS Name) does use a bow and arrow to bring wrath and  judgements to HIS enemies...
Psalm 58:6
Break their teeth, O God, in their mouth: break out the great teeth of the young lions, O LORD.
7Let them melt away as waters which run continually: when he bendeth his bow to shoot his arrows, let them be as cut in pieces.


Lamentations 3
11He hath turned aside my ways, and pulled me in pieces: he hath made me desolate.
12He hath bent his bow, and set me as a mark for the arrow.
13He hath caused the arrows of his quiver to enter into my reins.
The whole chapter here is worth reading...


RE: Daniel 9


24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
 
25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Jesus' Ministry lasted 3 1/2 years... Teaching the Kingdom of Heaven and also cursing the fig tree ... Then...


Jesus became the sacrificial Lamb of God who taketh away the sin of the world.
This fulfilled verse 24... and 27... HE Finished trangressions ( ALL for ALL TIME) made an end to sin (for true Spiritual Israel), providing for us to be reconciled by HIS ATONEMENT for our intent to sin, He brought in Everlasting righteousness for HIS called, chosen and FAITHFUL elect and Annointed us with the Holy Ghost to live in the newness of His Ressurrected Life! PTL, AMEN~
He ended the sacrifices in the Temple ... the veil was rent in twain...




By the way, 3 1/2 years later...exactly... Stephen was stoned. That was the final abomination. This indeed ended the 70 weeks of Daniel...


Matthew 23
33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!


38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


Rome finally destroyed it in 70 AD.
And it (Israeli State) is a (GOD) desolate sand box in the desert even today... Definately not Holy (neither is vatican city)... Jerusalem is still being trodden down and will be til' the LAST DAY!


This was a final proclamation to them because of the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION = UNBELIEF, they did not want JESUS to be MESSIAH! They liked things as they were... They loved their so-called glory, status, etc... RANK BLASPHEMY.... Just like today...
They were of the babylonian Harlot  Read Ezekial Chapter 8, re: the 70... and the talmud today still teaches error... They are still in blindness and deafness... Not True Spiritual Israel. 


These men escaped to Alexandria Egypt and penned the Erronious bibles using classical greek not street greek which the common folks used... Thus began from them, jesuits, catholicsism, islam, (mohammad's wife was catholic and she wrote for him, he was illiterate in writing) and judaism of course... Also these kings, rich and masonic (includes billy graham and many other FALSE SHEPHERDS, mighty and yes RELIGIOUS men who are inhabited by evil spirits ( have had 6000 years who plan and try to get it right), they are all part of the are NWO ...  satan is loosed for a short while to gather from the four corners of the world a great army for TO MAKE WAR AGAINST HIM WHO IS ON THE WHITE HORSE..
Salvation is for the jew first then gentile, but all must be grafted in to the OLIVE TREE (Not a FIG tree) ....It is by GRACE not race... We are ISRAEL, of the SEED (JESUS) of Abraham, the root and the offspring of David...


All kindreds tongues and nations must REPENT,  die to self, be buried in a full water immersion baptism, be baptised by fire...in the name of JESUS receive the HOLY GHOST and walk by faith and not by sight, thus being a new creature...
This is the 1st ressurection. And the 2nd ressurrection on the Last Day has NO power over us... Revelation 20... PTL


John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.


*We are saved from death, wrath and hell....


When Jesus ascended into Heaven to HIS Throne as the Victor and Overcomer of the world, because of HIS pure shed blood, He ALONE IS WORTHY TO OPEN THE BOOKS. This happened over 2000 years ago... seals opened, horses have been running, trumpets and vials all started then... View from Heaven, earth and the sea... tribulations and trials ( testing of our faith) continues until The LAST DAY...


There has ALWAYS been a remnant of HIS people Before Christ they looked for HIM to come, while HE was here in the flesh they followed HIM and since He Arose, We believe and  We preach the GOOD NEWS of HIS Kindom to every creature...


The Birth pangs began at that time and as time goes by and it has, the closer we get,  the pace is quicker and the judgements are harsher... the signs are everywhere we look...  Just as HE predicted in Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke: 17 & 21 and Revelations


The BIBLE is being confirmed everyday... The two witnesses are The Word of God and God's people who worship in HIS Spirit and in HIS Truth!... God once had a Temple for HIS people but now has a people for HIS Temple!
They try to get the Bible reversed, revised and watered down every day... There is a famine of hearing the WORDS OF GOD...


We are killed all the day long...
If our Faith in JESUS is worth living for, then it also must be worth dying for...
To be sure we all shall be tested...
Jesus gives us the Faith to overcome...
Read Foxes Book of Martyrs...


Blessings and Peace

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM::  Horses Sense

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                                  Four Unleashed Destroying Horses

 

You see unless you know the scripture like the back of your hand you can not even enter into a debate as to which view point you hold.

I will be expecting an answer from those of you who consider yourselves heavy, weighting in again "EVENTUALLY".

HEHEHEHEH

I hope we didn't bite off more than we can chew.

Have fun, but don't quit your day job!!!!!!!!

"On guard" your sword needed polishing up.

 

NAME::  Bro Mike

FROM:: Ralph's Fantasies 

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Hi Mana 

I much agree that ralf should be put under some kind of supervision at least.

So many who were unaware have suffered many things.

Your recent post reminded me of the week ralf was being exposed in the 2001 tabernacle meetings with half packing their bags and the other half telling ralf that they forgave him again.

So ralf took several of his choice leaders downtown to the bank with Robert V. to hurry and transfer the second $1 million into ralf's bank.

On their way to town and back Ray R. told me ralf boasted he could have any of the bank tellers he wanted. Ray made it clear that sexually was the focus of these comments that I am sure were aimed at Robert to make the young boy blush.

ralf is without a conscience. State Law does not enforce a ministers conduct.

A minister is outside of the legal system for general civil affairs, so if people don't like what ralf is doing they can leave.

I am glad you and David got away from the tidal wave of contradictions.

 

NAME::  Mana Mull

FROM:: In Ralph's Dreams

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 Yes Jason, Stair should be in prison because you see, my baby was, at least, the fourth baby to die under Stair's authority.  And yet he continues to get away with murder time and time again and this is why so many young people are dying at the Overcomer Hell ministry. 

 I could never recommend for anyone to move there as you will lose your money, dignity and material belongings.  Stair will not let you leave there now, unless you leave during the night or when he is busy sexing someone's wife. 

 Can you believe Stair is telling everyone I was having sex with him?  Only in his dreams. Stair is not a "sign", but he is a con-artist, liar and a deceiver.  Look at all the people there he is deceiving.

 

NAME::  Strong Meat

FROM:: Four Horsemen

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The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

{four horsemen of the apocalypse}
Art used by permission by Pat Marvenko Smith, copyright 1992.
Click here to visit her "Revelation Illustrated" site.

For Albrecht Durer's wood-cut of the "Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse" click here 131k


The four horsemen of the Apocalypse are described in just eight verses of the book of Revelation, which is the last book in the bible. The four horsemen appear when the Lamb (Jesus) opens the first four seals of a scroll with seven seals (which is described in Revelation chapter 6). As each of the first four seals are opened a different coloured horse and its rider is seen by the apostle John as described in Rev 6:1-8.

First seal is opened : a white horse appears, its rider held a bow (conquest).

(Rev 6:1-8 NIV) I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" {2} I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

Second seal is opened : a red horse appears, its rider holds a sword (war)

{3} When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" {4} Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

Third seal is opened: a black horse appears, its rider holds a pair of scales (famine)

{5} When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. {6} Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

Fourth seal is opened : a pale horse appears, its rider is called Death

{7} When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" {8} I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

  • The seven seals (6:1)
  • 2.1. First seal (6:1) a white horse, its rider holds a bow
  • 2.2. Second seal (6:3) a red horse, its rider holds a sword
  • 2.3. Third seal (6:5) a black horse, its rider holds a pair of scales
  • 2.4. Fourth seal (6:7) a pale horse, its rider is called Death
  • In Revelation chapter 4 we see God seated on the throne in heaven, it is he who is sovereign over earthly events. We should notice first that only the Lamb (Jesus) is able to take the scroll from God and to break the seals and reveal its contents. Each of the four riders is summoned onto human history by one of the heavenly living creatures. Notice the phase 'he was given a crown', 'was given power', 'do not damage the oil and the wine', 'were given power over', all of this indicates that the four riders are under the sovereignty of God. Even if we do not understand earthly events, the message of Revelation is that God is sovereign from the start to the finish. Then his enemies will be defeated and punished and his saints vindicated and rewarded. Followed by a new earth with no more death or mourning or crying or pain.


    2. The seven seals (6:1)

    Background to the four horsemen.

    After taking the scroll from God and being worshipped by all creation (in chapter 5) the Lamb (Jesus, the Lamb of God) now opens the seven seals of the scroll to reveal its contents. The seals as with the trumpets are in a group of four, two and one. The opening of the first four seals reveal the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. The opening of the first four seals is introduced by each of the four living creatures in turn. Each one of the four living creatures reveals a horseman, the first three horsemen are summed up by the fourth horsemen, 'They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth'. These are popularly known as the four horsemen of the Apocalypse. The power of these horsemen is limited to a quarter, with the trumpets later it is limited to a third. The fifth seal reveals those who had been slain because of the word of God and their testimony, that is the persecuted church. The sixth seal reveals the day of the Lord, which brings the Lamb's wrath to those on the earth. The opening of the seventh seal reveals silence. The seven seals sum up human history from the viewpoint of heaven and the church. There is war, famine and pestilence in general and on the church in particular there is persecution, then the end will come bringing terror to the world, this probably accounts for the silence of the seventh seal.

    What is described by the seals is similar to the signs of the end of the age as described by Jesus in Matthew 24. There will be wars, famines and earthquakes (Mat 24:6-8), persecution (24:9-14), the heavenly bodies are shaken (Mat 24:29) and 'at that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn' (Mat 24:30). After the opening of the seven seals the scroll can be read and we find more detail, but this starts in chapter 8. The seven seals describe tribulation that is largely man made (wars, famine and persecution) but under the control of God, the seven trumpets are disasters sent by God with the aim of persuading man to repent, the seven bowls are the final outpouring of God's wrath on impenitent mankind. The fact that the seven seals are opened by Christ indicates his sovereignty over the future. Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End (Rev 22:13), he is sovereign from the beginning to the end of history, and everything in between.

    2.1. First seal (6:1)

    Rev 6:1 I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals. Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" 2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.

    v1 - I watched as the Lamb opened the first of the seven seals - Jesus opens the seals following the worship of all creation but especially that of the church. John watches with anticipation as the Lamb opens the first seal. Jesus opens the seals but not the book, the opening of the seals is preliminary to opening the book. Jesus opens the seals to permit us to see the future course of history which is not hidden from the saints (1:1, 22:6, 10). God has entrusted Jesus to reveal the future course of history to His church cf. 1:1, 'the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy' (19:10).

    v1 - Then I heard one of the four living creatures say in a voice like thunder, "Come!" - Each one of the four living creatures introduces the first four seals. The thunder emphasises the command, Come! Which calls the first horse onto the stage. Note that the opening of the seals by the Lamb is not passive but it brings events onto the stage of human history.

    v2 - I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest - The first of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse, this image is taken from Zechariah (Zec 1:8, 6:1-8) in which there are four chariots pulled by different coloured horses, these are the four spirits of heaven going out from standing in the presence of the Lord of the whole world. The four horses cover each direction of the compass, that is, they affect the whole earth. Some see the rider on the white horse as the same rider as in Rev 19:11 i.e. Christ, see Hendriksen. This is not certain, the rider in Rev 19:11 had a sword, this one has a bow. The bow is more likely to be that of the Parthians who were the only mounted archers in the ancient world. He was given a crown, is this likely to refer to Christ who had many crowns (see Rev 19:12), but see comment on 14:14. The crown is a victors crown (Gr., stephanos) as distinguished from a royal crown (diadema), the victors crown is appropriate for someone going forth to conquer. The crown is not the same type of crown that the beast wears (13:1) or Christ wears in 19:12 who both wear the royal crown (diadema) although the 'son of man' in 14:14 wears the victors crown.

    The forth horse summarises the first three and is distinctly evil, the first horse signifies the lust for conquest which is commonly the cause of war, which is the next seal and famine (third seal), the fourth seal describes death by sword, famine, plague and wild beasts. It should also be noted that in the sixth seal the wrath of the Lamb falls on the kings, princes, generals and mighty (men) among others who are responsible for war. Rev 19:18 also describes the kings, generals, mighty men, horses and their riders and the rest whose flesh the birds flying in mid-air eat. The four horses cover the four directions of the compass, they are of a unity, just as the first four trumpets and bowls affect the whole earth. The first four seals are introduced by the living creatures, the rest are not. The first rider representing conquest is the most straight forward reading of the text, although the fact that he is riding a white horse raises problems for this interpretation, although John may simply be thinking of Zech 1:8, 6:3 which have a white horse. Others argue that Christ cannot be commanded by heavenly creatures therefore the horseman must be the conquest of the word of God as prophesied by Christ (Mark 13:10), however see 14:15 where someone 'like a son of man' is told to reap. There is at least one verse in which an arrow is likened to the word of God 'He made my mouth like a sharpened sword, in the shadow of his hand he hid me; he made me into a polished arrow and concealed me in his quiver', (Isa 49:2).

    Grimsrud argues that the white horse signifies triumphant warfare because the four horsemen represent war and its attendant evils: war, strife, famine and disease, and makes the following observation: ' Conquer is used 11 times in the book to allude to conquest by a faithful witness (once in each of the seven letters, in 5:5 of the Lamb, and in 12:11 and 15:2 of the faithful servants). Three times it refers to conquest by violence (here, in 11:7 where the beast kills the two witnesses, and in 13:7 where the beast wars against and conquers the saints). In all 'conquering' passages, Christ and his followers conquer by dying; Satan and the evil powers by killing'.

    Johnson identifies the rider on the white horse with the antichrist and his forces that seek to conquer the followers of Christ. Each of the first four seals, then, represents conflict directed at Christians to test them and sift out false disciples (v.10). He goes on to say that this interpretation need not necessarily eliminate the fact that the seals may also refer to judgements on humankind in general. Yet since the fifth seal stresses the cry of the martyred Christians, probably the thought of Christian persecution belongs also in the first four seals. Each of them unleashes events that separate false belief from true. The destruction of Jerusalem is a case in point (Lk 21:20 ff.). The white horse goes forth to conquer, and as he does so, judgement falls on the unbelief of Israel (Lk 21:22-23), while at the same time there is testing of believers to separate the chaff from the wheat (cf. Lk 21:12-19).

    There are some who see the first horseman as conquest in general, the antichrist in particular (Preacher's Outline & Sermon Bible) and who argue:

    1. He is the deceiver; therefore he appears in white (Mat 24:5, 2 Thess 2:11).
    2. The crown he wears is different from the crown worn by Christ in Rev 19. It is the crown of the conqueror (stephanos) not the royal crown of a king (diadema), however note that the one 'like a son of man' seated on a cloud wears a crown (stephanos) of gold on his head, 14:14.
    3. The bow symbolises conquest. In the OT it is always the symbol of military power (Ps 46:9; Jer 51:51; Hos 1:5).
    4. To be consistent one must relate this horsemen to the other three who appear destructive.
    5. Note that this rider already possesses a bow but the crown is given to him and goes forth to conquer and hence is a counterfeit Christ.
      a. This rider possesses a bow but Christ possesses no bow; a weapon of war is not part of his being.
      b. This rider is given a crown but Christ is not given a crown. He was either crowned throughout eternity or at his ascension.
      c. This rider sets out to conquer but Christ has always been conquering men's hearts. This horseman who sets out to conquer is one who already posses a bow and is given a crown at some point in time. From that point, he goes forth to conquer (cf. The little horn of Dan 7; The man of sin and the beast and the ruler of the restored Roman Empire of Rev 13; the abomination of desolation of Mat 24:15).

    However the first horse being Christ conquering the nations is more in harmony with the whole book. If the rider is Christ then the conquest is the gospel, the martyrs we see in the fifth seal are there due to the resulting persecution that breaks out because of the conquest of the gospel. Hendriksen's argument that the rider is Christ is as follows:

    1. In 5:5 Christ is portrayed as one who has triumphed.
    2. The horse is white, this colour is associated with the holy and heavenly, e.g. white robe, white cloud, white throne, white stone etc., therefore the rider cannot be the devil or the antichrist.
    3. The rider wears a crown which harmonises with 14:14 where Christ wears a crown of gold.
    4. The word conquer or overcome refers with two exceptions (11:7, 13:7) to Christ or believers, see 3:21b. Compare John 16:33 with Rev 3:21b, see also Rev 5:5 and 6:2.
    5. Compare the rider on the white horse here with the rider on the white horse in 19:11 who is clearly Christ. In 5:5 Christ conquered at the cross, in 6:2 is now conquering through the gospel, and in 19:11 he is going to conquer on the great day of judgement which is why he wears many crowns.
    6. The idea of a conquering Christ is in harmony with the purpose of the book, see above (v) and 1:13 ff., 2:26,27, 3:21, 5:5, 6:16, 11:15, 12:11, 14:1 ff., 14:14 ff., 17:14, 19:11 note especially 17:14.(Rev 17:14) They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings--and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers."
    7. The rider on the horse in 6:2 is in harmony with Mat 10:34 in which he says that he has not come to bring peace on earth but a sword, referring to persecution. The rider on the white horse is followed by the rider on the red horse who carries a sword, and the fifth seal sees the souls of the martyrs under the altar.
    8. Compare with Psa 45:3-5 see also Heb 1:8 which quotes this psalm in which the rider is the Son.
    9. Compare with Zech 1:8 ff. See also Hab 3:8,9; Isa 41:2.

    To sum up the first rider and his relationship to the other seals, there are four views:

    a. The first rider represents the lust for conquest and as such forms an integral part of the four horsemen who are all evil and are summed up by the fourth horsemen. Conquest brings with it war, famine and death. However the colour white is usually associated with good not evil, but it can indicate victory (Lenski), the rider wears the victory crown.

    b. A step further is to say that the rider is the antichrist who brings havoc and misery on the world as indicated by the second, third and fourth horsemen, the fifth seal shows the resultant persecution of Christians by the antichrist followed by the sixth seal representing the end when Christ returns.

    c. The first horsemen is Christ conquering by the power of the gospel and the other seals 2 to 5 represent various forms of persecution resulting from the proclamation of the gospel of the first seal. It is perhaps appropriate that Jesus who is the beginning and the end should appear on a white horse at both the beginning and end of the visions about the future.

    d. The first rider is the word of God (see Lenski), this again harmonises with the rider on the white horse in chapter 19 whose name is the Word of God and also with Matthew 24:14 and the Matthew 24 model for the interpretation of all the trumpets (see comments after 6:8). The gospel is preached and during the same time there is war, famine and death from various causes. This view makes the best sense in terms of the purpose of Revelation because persecution arises because of the word of God as indicated by the martyrs of the fifth seal who had been slain because of the word of God (5:9). Consider the two witnesses who are slain because they prophesy (11:7) and those beheaded because of the word of God (20:4). In Isa 49:2 the prophet Isaiah compares himself to a polished arrow concealed in the Lords quiver which in the context of the verse, which also refers to his mouth as a sharpened sword, must be the word of God. Consider that the armies of the Lord, who are the saints (see 17:14), as well as Christ, also ride white horses (19:14) and it is through these that the gospel is preached. Finally consider that the gospel also goes throughout the earth in the four directions of the compass just as do war, famine and death.

    2.2. Second seal (6:3)

    Rev 6:3 When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature say, "Come!" 4 Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword.

    v4 - Then another horse came out, a fiery red one. Its rider was given power to take peace from the earth and to make men slay each other. To him was given a large sword. - War or persecution? In the light of Mat 24:6-7 and in light of the fourth horse that sums up the other three the balance would be in favour of war. Make men slay each other not make men slay the saints, in the light of the rest of the book the author is quite capable of indicating persecution as such. Some commentators quote the following scripture in support of persecution (Mat 10:34), 'I did not come to bring peace, but a sword'. Compare this with the sixth trumpet (Rev 9:15) in which a third of mankind is killed by mounted troops. The colour red corresponds to its mission of bloodshed. The sword is the Roman short sword (machaira). Note that its rider was given power to make men slay each other, 'was given' indicates God's permissive approval. Hendriksen however persuasively argues that the slaughter is of believers and not warfare in general.

    1. In the context persecution follows the first horse who is Christ and the gospel.
    2. Quotes Mat 10:34 'I came not to send peace, but a sword' (machaira)...
    3. The word slaughter when used by John refers to the slaughter of believers except in 13:3 where the slaughtered head belongs to the beast, cf. 1 John 3:12 (Abel slain), Rev 5:6, 5:9, 5:12 (the Lamb), 6:9 (the martyrs under the alter), 13:8 (the Lamb), 18:24 (the saints).
    4. When the fifth seal is opened it reveals the souls of the slaughtered saints which ties in with the slaughtering of the saints in the second seal.
    5. The machaira when used in scripture refers to a sacrificial knife as in the sacrifice of Isaac.
    6. The book is being written to believers who were being killed so that persecution not warfare is the issue. Whenever the rider on the white horse appears (Christ and the gospel) the rider on the red horse always follows (see Mat 5:10,11; Luk 21:2; Acts 4:1; 5:17 etc.). Consider Stephen and Paul, Publius and Polycarp etc.

    2.3. Third seal (6:5)

    Rev 6:5 When the Lamb opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. 6 Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"

    v5 - "Come!" I looked, and there before me was a black horse! Its rider was holding a pair of scales in his hand. - Black could indicate dried up vegetation or even burned vegetation, see Lam 5:10. Scales are used to weigh food (Ezek 4:16). The scales can also be thought of as representing injustice since the rider only affects those who are poor.

    v6 - Then I heard what sounded like a voice among the four living creatures, saying, "A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!" - This indicates famine or shortage, a quart of wheat is enough good food for one person not his family, poor food (barley) is available, luxurious items such as oil and wine are not hurt. Olives and vines are deeper rooted and are therefore able to withstand drought. Walvoord comments that famine is the aftermath of war. This is the situation with the western and third world today which takes the luxurious food for itself leaving hardly enough basic food for the third world (famine and justice). Babylon is condemned for her excessive luxury Rev 18:3. The merchants traded oil, wine and wheat with Babylon (18:13), but Barley is not mentioned because it is poor mans food and not a luxury. Famine is also one of the conditions leading to the end times, Mat 24:7. Famine can also lead to political instability which is also a cause of war. Hendriksen argues that the poor people who could only afford barley are Christians. From Revelation we learn something of the conditions of the believers at that time:

    1. They could not remain a member of a trades guild which would involve eating food sacrificed to idols and sexual immorality (cf. Pergamum and Thyatira) and it would therefore be difficult to earn a living.
    2. Those who did not have the mark of the beast could not buy or sell (13:17).
    3. Generally the poor would tend to become Christians (Jas 2:5, cf. 1 Cor 1:26)

    The second and third riders belong together in their mission to persecute God's people as they spread oppression, injustice and economic hardship throughout the centuries of the churches existence.

    2.4. Fourth seal (6:7)

    Rev 6:7 When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" 8 I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth.

    v8 - I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! - The horse is sickly yellow green (Greek chloros, from which the word chlorine comes from) like a dead person. This horse sums up the work of the other three i.e. kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. This verse is also similar to Rev 13:10 where the clear indication is to persecution by the beast in the form of captivity, or being killed with the sword.

    v8 - Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. - Hades is the abode of the spirits after death and therefore always follows closely behind death. Death and Hades, the abode of the dead, are personified here, as in Rev 20:13. But Jesus has authority over both, see Rev 1:18.

    v8 - They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. - They were given power over a quarter of the earth so it was not universal it was limited power. Compare with the trumpets, one third of the earth is affected, and the bowls which have a total effect. See also Jeremiah's four kinds of destroyers, Jer 15:2, and Ezekiel's four dreadful judgements, Ezek 5:12, 17, 14:21 (in the LXX the same word rhomphia is used for the sword). Note the fact that they were given power, indicating the sovereignty of God. The word kill used here is not (sacrificial) slaughter as in the second seal, the sword here is rhomphia not machaira, it is a great long and heavy sword, it refers to war in general (Hendriksen). These are general in character and affect all mankind and are symbolic of all universal woes that affect believers and the rest of the world throughout this current dispensation. For the church these woes are used by Christ for sanctification of the church and the extension of the kingdom (Hendriksen), compare with Rom 8:35.

    What is the interpretation of the four horsemen? There is no easy interpretation of the four horses of the apocalypse, however (according to Billy Graham) they have a striking relationship to Mat 24, especially when compared with the opening of the fifth seal which speaks of the persecution of the saints and the sixth seal which parallels Mat 24:29. The seals of Revelation can be considered as a comment on and expansion of Mat 24, which is a history of the world from heavens viewpoint.

    This section and in fact the rest of Revelation is also a commentary on Rom 8:28-39..

     

     

    NAME::  Brother Rowland

    FROM:: Horse Sense

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                                  White Horse Sense

    Thank you Florida Reader for your insight yet respectfully I must point out some things about the WHITE HORSE.

    Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    In Ch 4: Jesus tells John that HE wants to show him what is going to happen from here on out. Then next Jesus is found to be the only one who can open the BOOK

    Daniel is told to seal up the vision of these end time seals, but a key is that there is a purpose for opening these vials, seals etc.................

    The purpose is to MAKE AN END OF SINS

    Daniel 9:.............................to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

    Now that we have established Jesus being the one who is worthy to open this book that is full of seals and so forth, we need to realize that the reason for opening them is to bring about a speedy change upon the earth.

    The idea that the WHITE HORSE rider is some victorious time period that we all live in with TRINITY BROADCASTING NETWORK as the ANGEL flying through the heavens preaching the everlasting gospel is a common view point.

    The trouble I have with this rendition  is that, if this were true, then this would mean that CHRIST (THE WHITE HORSE) is setting up HIS SEAT OF POWER before the other horses come and then CHRIST would have to set up his SEAT OF POWER all over again within a short time afterward.

    No this WHITE HORSE comes in peaceably  (Daniel 11) Jesus is opening this seal and it is not a seal of HIMSELF, it is a seal among other seals and horses for the purpose of bring sins to an end or the current system.

    Satan is THE PRINCE OF THE POWER OF THE AIR in this world Satan and HIS demon LORDS run the show.

    It sure AIN'T Jesus calling the shots at present or things would be a lot different. 

    The WHITE HORSE (Seal #1) is the false KING of KINGS that has been GIVEN this time to do what GOD has put in their heart to do.

    Look at the WHITE HORSE in REV 9: and it should become clear that the WHITE HORSE in REV 6 that is opened in seal #1, by Jesus, are not the same horse.

    REV 9:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
    14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
    15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
    16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    We must establish THE WHITE HORSE as being something that we can maybe see happening on earth to understand the other horses that follow.

    Since Christ is not conquering the earth yet, we must conclude that some other KING is doing this conquering and I don't mean Paul and Jan Crouch.

    I never like Jan's wig anyway, plus Paul Crouch punches the clock for the oil barrens who are THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX, Satan's right hand men.

    The NWO WHITE HORSE is already being worshipped as THE GOOD HORSE fighting victoriously against all evil Governments, conquering them ALL.

    We as Victorious Christians are Conquering the world???????????????????

    You buy that I'll throw the Golden Gate in free.

    Horse Sense is fun I think

    If anyone has anything to add please feel free as this is no more than Bible based speculation.

     

    NAME::  Florida Reader

    FROM:: Horses, Seals, Trumpets 

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                           Here is a different look at the White Horse.

    It is Jesus, Period. His Message of Truth is preached Worldwide... Conquering and to conquer all evil.
    He is the Ultimate Victor...
    There will only be ONE Victor... JESUS.


    Red horse always follows the White horse...The Message of Truth. Try telling someone the Truth today...
    it causes all kinds of war...
     
    Black Horse is  Money, weights and measures, you pay more and get less. (Everything in the world is a scam)... The oil and wine are Holy Spirit and empowerment to the saints through the faith in the Blood of Jesus.
    All Gifts of the Spirit are available to us, on an as needed basis.


    Pale Horse is a beast system, trying to control all men worldwide, yes...
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall they... 
    (all the evil kings men) have been trying since Rome fell to build their empire again...over and over again, the evil spirits leave when one dies they enter someone else through out the ages since JESUS walked the earth.
    The KINGDOM of JESUS ONLY will never fall...
    It is an EVERLASTING KINGDOM: See Daniel...


    Lastly, The man of sin (perdition) will be revealed to believers and that's all folks.... Be ready, for in the time you think not, Jesus cometh, not to set up an earthly kingdom (He will never again be an earthly King or Priest), but He comes back only for the final judgment which is to destroy those who destroy the earth ...

    He destroys the earth also... Remember the New Heavens and the new earth coming down. We are Ressurrected and meet HIM at the Last Trumpet and so we shall ever be with the LORD!
    The wicked resurrect to everlasting contempt!


    This is my insight and it took many years of searching the scriptures and the untwisting my mind from all that
     ~ Scofield ~ taught, He was responsible for rapture teachings and all kinds of error, false doctrines which are very popular today!


    Everything in Revelation is now on the fast track to that LAST DAY! Concurrently Horses, Seals, trumpets and bowls...
    Praise The LORD Pray for and Hasten the DAY!
    If you have ???? I'll try to answer back...


    Blessings and Peace

     

    NAME::  Brother Rowland

    FROM:: NWO Conquering Horse

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                                       HORSE SENSE

    Let me explain what I think I know about these horses. None of this is a prophecy on my part.

    Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    The WHITE HORSE here represents a seat of power similar to THE WHITE HORSE in Rev 19: Faithful and True, who is none other than Jesus.

    Between now and when Jesus sets up Gov. on earth, the other white horse comes.

    THE WHITE HORSE in rev 6: to me would be THIS FALSE CHRIST SEAT OF POWER and he has a BOW that has always symbolized strength. 

    The WHITE HORSE has always been associated with the good guys, so as we know about this "FALSE CHRIST FIGURE" that the people of the world will think HE is the good guy, riding on HIS KINGS HORSE and carrying his "BOW OF STRENGTH"

    A CROWN was GIVEN to THE WHITE HORSE and this crown is a symbol of KINGSHIP and in this case I believe fits THE NEW WORLD ORDER.

    Also This FALSE KING of KINGS goes forth CONQUERING to CONQUER. We have been living in this time for sure.

    THIS WHITE HORSE IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER SYSTEM.

    Also this NEW WORLD ORDER leadership false good guy riding THE WHITE 

    HORSE is BABYLON THE GREAT IS FALLEN IS FALLEN as shown in scripture. 

    THE NEW WORLD ORDER FALSE GOOD GUYS ON THE WHITE HORSE have a system and covenant that breeds death and is the enemy of GOD.

    BABYLON is Falling because Babylon is confusion and confusion always leads to failure.

    THE RED HORSE

    THE BLACK HORSE

    and PALE HORSE 

    These are descriptions of THE FALL of BABYLON (WHITE HORSE GOV.)and what will happen worldwide as the slaughter leaves the peoples of the nations  starving and killed by beasts of the earth as there is no Gov. order whatsoever.

    According to scripture the fulfilled prophecy time clock accelerates when the MARK OF THE BEAST NWO SYSTEM comes into play.

    Stay ready for anything and DO NOT TAKE THIS MARK for buying and selling.

     

     

    NAME::  Jason P Adams

    FROM::  Mana Mull testimony

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     The Mana Mull testimony is absolutely horrific. I have no doubt that the child would have survived with proper pre natal care. Stair should be in prison for murder on this one.

    NAME::  Pastor Tim Butler

    FROM::  "2 seals opened"

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    ARE THE SEALS BEING OPENED?

    Revelation 6

     1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

     2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

     3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

     4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

     5And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

     6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

     7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

     8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

     

    The Lord has been dealing with me lately about the Seals being opened at this time. While many may doubt this, I believe that this is indeed the case and the Lord has shown me a few things I would like to share with you at this time.

    THE WHITE HORSE

     2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    White, in the Bible, has always represented peace. We live in a day where war’s, between nations, are almost a thing of the past. The United Nations today places sanctions against “Rouge” nations that do not go along with the New World Order that they are trying to impose. Iran and North Korea both have had many sanctions placed against them because they will not line up with the NOW way of thinking. In this passage about the white horse and it’s rider we see that he is given a crown and a bow and that he goes forth to conquer. Notice that he was given a bow, but no arrows for the bow. This is the United Nations. The U.N. Has no military force of it’s own. The world has given authority to the U.N. To keep the peace of the world and while America seems to be it’s military arm, they themselves have no arms.

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Stair's and Morrotto's Tyrannical Rule

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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      Yes Brother, the same Lordship over the people there was also going on when I left there in 2008.  And really, there was no need for it.  God did take Dave Morrotto off the scene though, I remember picking figs with him beside the chicken yard and was leaving the yard to go and use the bathroom, Dave says "you don't have to go, you are just trying to get out of work".  Well, I left anyway because I had to go now.  I was already sick and tired of this Lordship. 

      I remember timothy Jones yelling at Philip Myson for the way he was cutting up peaches, which we got from our neighbor and not from our farm, Timothy said either do it this way or you can start walking down hwy 61.  The point I'm trying to make is; I was cutting the peaches the same exact way and Timothy said nothing to me. 

      It's really sad, you go there to the sex farm, give everything you have and when you are kicked out you may not take anything but the clothes on your back.  Thank God nobody messed with me as I was in broadcast support.  I did work some in the field between my asthma attacks and computer room duties though.
     

      Mr. Stair did not get too involved in the farm work because he was busy watching porn or seeking physical sex, but when he did get involved he called everyone and started blasting orders and then fancied himself like "see how spiritual I am?  I look ahead and you peanut brains don't understand".
     

      I remember a day when Mr. Stair came into the computer room with an angry affect and told me to get out of here and get to work (as he often does), so I left on my bicycle and went home and took a nap.  You see?  I really didn't care towards the end because I was sick and tired of Mr. Stair's and Morrotto's tyrannical rule.
     

      It comes down to "The Eternal Choice of Men; To Endure Oppression. or To Resist.

     




    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: Murdering Spirits

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    This is Mike Rowland continuing:

    You should have seen the way farm life was with ralph directing leaders to be over the flock. David Jackson was the most successful leader as he did not LORD OVER, this is not the feeling I got from the Brunners and many more.

    They were at ralph's beckon call. ralph would command this and that and the leaders would run the show exactly that way. For instance the biggest play on scripture by ralph was "A wicked and adulterous Generation" this was constantly used to divert attention off of ralph sneaky habits.

    The leaders who were loyal soldiers for ralph would range from preaching Pastor on Sabbath to Older more "EXPERIENCED" wise ones. Under ralph's direction the ralph leaders would do and act whatever way ralph set them up to do and to respond.

    The pressure to except the Prophet and his every command was enormous and under this cloud most of the leaders who were to carry out the orders had no idea that they were not walking in the spirit. They would say, do and respond according to the false direction of ralph. Each brother and each sister that was approached in a condemning format was belittled and spiritually harassed with an over all purpose to keep the opponent (God's People) off balance so they would not uncover ralph's naughty lifestyle to quickly.

     

    Daily we all lived under this perversion of power not knowing for sure why it felt this way. Some of the time spent together with each other was great as ralph was not there to misdirect. However if any details of a specific encounter in a shop, barn,kitchen or field that ralph might had only heard of could be used against those persons based on previous slanderous remarks directed to the group by ralph against one or more individual.

    Each person was targeted in a very short time upon moving to the farm and each new misdirected entry was further damning evidence that the person or persons were not doing the will of God, according to the might Prophet.

    This is the worldly method of leadership that competes against their enemy through oppression so as to dived and conquer. Each time misdirected by ralph , a leader or group of leaders pointed like a gun or long finger at a person who was already daily afflicted, was further bullied and the enjoyment to see the hurting person display pain gave some a feeling that they were in fact much more spiritual than the next person.

    To the leaders the display of pain was confirmation that the Prophet was right and the expressions of hurt were proof of their evil. It never occurred to the leaders that they were afflicting Jesus.

    ralph thrives on this expression of pain from others as ralph slaughters the flock from behind the scenes. Day after day, year after year, each and every person becomes the target of ralph's abuse of power. Some packed up and left the farm right away, while others could not, because that had many members of their families living thereto consider.

    Each new day was another day that we were not free in the spirit to be comfortable around certain leaders and this would change to the next set of leaders for short periods usually measured in mouths as the leadership was under attack too.

    Only the Prophet was Righteous and Holy. The other leaders were small boys up next to the Prophet so this is what gave rise to the competitive behavior amongst the "ralph Hierarchy ".

    Now if this was not a sight to see with each of the leaders trying to explain and prove that they were walking sinless, next in command, I don't know if I can put it into words.

    Daily the fight to stay in pole position was on, all at the expense of the lesser pawns under them who had long track records against each of them. The way ralph set it up continues until today with everyone breathing down someone else's neck to find their sin that ralph said that they have.

    I mean the Prophet could not be wrong after all, right?

    Of course not,  the Prophet is never wrong you know that!!

    So this meant that somebody else was wrong and sinning like ralph stated and the leaders who all had been shamed one by one before one another were going to make damn sure they followed procedure so as not to become the new target of ralph's.

    This was our daily bread at the farm, all day long. Don't talk, don't think, don't try to be friends, don't try to live as if you were forgiven and free to love one another in the BIBLICAL sense because you were a hypocrite/liar/powered by worldly spirits and any sign of coming out from under the load of hateful oppression only compounded your problems of your stay on the farm, as you were making yourself the new target for that day.

    Hey guys I deliberately made myself THAT target almost all of the time because I was not going to change what I was doing  right, to pet the leaders and they were angry with me all of the time.

     

    Youoo- whooo it's me suckers. You want a piece.

    Well now you got it right? These are the greatest words of truth you can rehearse concerning our tyrannical misdirected stay at ralph's sex farm, and like his wife said ralph has had a thousand concubines to add to the harem.

    Many leaders have said a lot of things about their position to lead the body but talk is cheap and generally all people will sell out their righteous principles pretty cheap, rather than become the group target.

    In other words "The Flesh is Weak" we found that out huh?

    I love you all.

    Mike Rowland

     

     

     

     




    NAME:: Bro Rowland

    FROM:: Tom Duval's Testimony

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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      Yes Tom D. is one of the most honest gentle men you ever want to meet. When all of this happened Tom was weeping to see me and others be separated from him. He was very young at the time. I felt the need to push him away a little and commanded him pretty much to act more grown up. I hope he can understand now.

      When people are pushed is when you find out what part of them is real and what part is bologna, we all have both to weed out of our being. Michelle was a spirited young virgin who was not going to be pushed around by some old crusty guy pointing out her feminine actions like ralph, so ralph use roberts commune (Loser Community) to break down her will.  

      When they could do nothing but fight over her they sent her to bakers.

      Someone just told me she, her husband and children just recently left there to start their new life. 

      That is great news to know they are one by one all waking up.

      One big thing that really irks me to this day is watching some of the chief men not eat at meals with the group for over a year. It never dawned on me that they had known that ralph was a fornicator for nearly 2 years and were unable to do anything to have this heard before the group.

      I would eat and leave for work and when dinner came these men who knew everything, would just shake their heads at me when I would amen ralph's Jesus pep talks.

      The super spiritual families like the Brunners knew everything and just walked away without  conscience. The other leaders who stayed and knew everything were acting like, if the rest of us who so spiritual also could not get a vision/ premonition/or word from God then we deserved to be ralph amen fools.

      In each case regardless if the super spiritual leaders ran or stayed and gave ralph dozens of chances, the lesser spiritual retards like me were not given the inside track until years later.

      Upon leaving, the same leaders forbid me to go to the police and were they in for hard ball. I know now that if I had not called the law down on all of the fleeing families the week of their departure that most of them would never have been heard from again.

      Yet all of these so called spiritual folks spent 5-10 years telling the world ralph was the Prophet week in and week out, but could find no time to relay the embarrassing truth of who ralph really is.

      To this day these other people who ran away without warning the innocent incoming families as God commands, still look at one another the way ralph painted the false images about them with the intent to bring division.

      Division to keep ralph off the hook yet they still do not know, nor will they face facts on these issues. They still believe the lies that ralph planted in their hearts against one another.

      They were so easy to overcome, yet they are called to take captive these thoughts

      The faithful few like Thomas Belford are fearless men who love God enough to warm the innocent newcomers. Religious people sicken me, but everything shall be brought to light. I know they all did the best they could and that was not much trust me.

     

      Only one other had the spiritual muscle to get some money on the table who claimed to be a leader, to pay for radio time and share worldwide our sickening dilemma. This was embarrassing yet Butler did it anyway. This shows something other than lip service to God.

     

      Dan Catlin is another hero who stepped in to verify the corruption at ralph's filthy FARM CORPORATION.

      All it takes is one man to start telling the truth and you will be surprised what God can do. Brother Ben is the one man who God used to call me on my cell phone on the way to work one day and gave me an open microphone live around the world.

      I gave the same open microphone to all of the ex-farm members for one full year of radio time who had for years told the world ralph is the most powerful spiritual man on earth and only a few even bothered to call in and add their voices to testify that ralph was a pervert.

      Very few were doing anything to expose ralph.

      One day we all sent our testimonies (6-8 letters) to the heads of state and police dept. and the rest is history. They locked ralph up so fast that it made my head spin.

      Never run from evil because evil will only hunt you down to torture you further.

      Either way you will be oppressed so why not go down with a sword in your hand?

      Why back away in embarrassment? God has brought you to the battle for such a time as this.

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull 

    FROM:: Tom Duval's Testimony

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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     I was just listening to Tom Duval's testimony and I couldn't help but relive my five year tour at the sex farm.
     

      I beat myself up daily for not going to this website and reading and listening to testimonies of others there before we moved there. Everything Tom said was almost the exact torture Mana and I went through.  Mr. Stair told us everything on the internet is a lie about him and that we should not read any of it.
     

      I guess Michelle Duval would not submit to Mr. Stair's sexual demands, hence, she was kicked out.  That is terrible. Did Mr. Stair use one of his tactics on Michelle? "God told me to have sex with you" or "you're going to hell if you don't have sex with me" or "I'll be your boyfriend".
     

      We only lost about five thousand dollars and our Daughter.  How many people have to suffer under Mr. Stair's influence? 
     

      Sleep deprivation at Mr. Stair's sex farm is one of his attributes.  It was hypnotizing, to say the least.
     

      It is true, Mr. Stair will use you (your skills and/or your money) and then discard you like he has done so many times in the past.
     

      Now Mr. Stair has Robert(pastor)Connelly living there now and he is more abrasive then Mr. Stair.  Dennis Larivee says to me many times he is a Nazi and is an oppressor of God's people.

     

    NAME::  Dave Mull

    FROM:: Spiritual Adultery

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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      No Brother, I do not mind answering this question.  You see my friend, I want the world to know just what is going on there at the Overcomer Ministry. 

    Mat 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.

      It's paradoxical how Mr. Stair can shout upon the rooftop my sin or Joe Cline's sin and yet when it comes to Mr. Stair's sin, he says "I have no sin or iniquity in me" or "God made me to sin" or "it's all your faults", "Ralph Stair is dead, I'm a new creature". 

      Confused?  I just let it go over my head.
     

      Mr. Stair says over and over again, "you are a bunch of spiritual dummies".  And so, everybody walks around as if they are the most spiritual in the "bunch". You have to see them.  Chip doesn't though; he walks around like "that doesn't apply to me". 

      Take Dennis Larivee, he walks around slow and in a daze like "you should be as spiritual as me".  I'm sure Dennis must know Mr. Stair is committing adultery with his wife; his children caught Mr. Stair in bed with their mom Rose. 

      My wife Mana would watch as Mr. Stair comes into the kitchen and virtually undresses Rose.  Is this not adultery?  Oh yeah Brother, everyone that lives there know of the adultery and fornication, hence, "the night club". 

      I'm not sure if everyone knows about the drinking though.  Dennis Larivee believes Mr. Stair is a prophet and he deserves to have "double honor".  Where in the scriptures.....?
     

      How do they claim to be Godly?  You got me Brother; they all believe a lie. 

     

      Once I told Brother Joe, "Brother Stair lies", and he said "yes, yes".  After that I really beginning to wonder if I belong there at the farm.  The Sisters would always say to my wife "well, ya just have to forgive him (Brother Stair) and forget and move on ",

      I'm sorry but I just cannot receive that.  Sister Yost would always say "you can't just forgive him 7 times, but 7 x 77 times".  Stupid sisters.  This needs to be brought out and dealt with.  Don't you think so brothers?
     

      I really can't figure out what is wrong with Chip, Timothy or Tom Nuss.  They must surely know Mr. Stair is committing adultery and yet they do nothing about this.  I know Timothy said Mr. Stair has repented; so why does this carrying on continue then?  I do know "sex" is a taboo word that only Mr. Stair may use at his leisure or pleasure.
     

      I don't think Dennis Larivee is a Eunuch as he has confessed or bragged to me on several occasions of all the women he has had during his lifetime thus far.  Who knows, maybe he is not satisfying his wife enough. 

      I also remember Dennis telling me how he maxed out all his credit cards for cash advances and took the umpteen thousands of dollars and gave it to Mr. Stair and he received it knowing it was stolen money.  Can you believe that one Brother?  It's true my friend.
     

      Rose does not seem to be concerned with her relationship with Mr. Stair, except in the tabernacle during Prayer time you may hear her weeping in agony now and then.  My guess is she is trying to repent from an encounter with.............

      Dennis says he is "so proud of her".  You see Brother, no one else is allowed to put on a show like that during Prayer.  Want to know something else?  Dennis and Rose were allowed to take their children to Wal-Mart to buy clothes for them.  No one else has ever been allowed to do that before.

       We are always told by Mr. Stair to go and make your own with the material we have in the barn.  Although Chip does go down to Wal-mart and purchase unmentionables.
     

      Hope this helps your understanding, Brother!

    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: Spiritual Eunuch's

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Hey Dave, I hope  you don't mind me asking all of these questions but I have at least maybe a few more. One thing I wanted to know is do the people of the farm presently actually pretend in anyway to be Godly Christians while coving up and going along with adultery and fornication, drinking?

     

    If they claim to be Godly, then how can a man pass his wife to ralph in direct violation of scripture. Or do they just say Oops every time they have sex/god will forgive it/its nothing?

    What do the chief men do in the way of following Gods word? Do they know ralph is passing back and forth these girls to their husbands?

    Do they care anymore or just exhausted with scolding ralph and having no results?

    Why would a husband give away his wife for sex? Is the husband a Eunuch?

    Or maybe a Eunuch in the spirit after ralph got done with him?

    Please explain what might be going on at THE FARM with these folks claiming Christian status.

    Maybe Rose does not like her husband?

    I just can not tell from over here.

     

    NAME:: Rowland

    FROM:: Do What Thou Wilt

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    So I am wondering how many radio stations ralph is on. I think a 501c3 cHurch should be okay if they have sex drugs and rock & roll as long as they don't pay taxes?

    Wait that didn't make any sense let me try again.

    A cHurch farm can do sex, drugs and rock as long as they spend some money advertising their sex farm as charitable?

    Hold it that didn't sound right either can anyone help me this one?

    Where have all of the righteous rules gone to?

    Maybe The Farm is a charity as long as they wave a flag that says people coming there can have all they want to eat, plus sex, drugs, WiFi,rock&Roll, skin flicks?

    Wow Wee Yab-a-dab-a-doo that place should fill right up.

    Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law (Satanic bible)

     

    NAME::  Dave Mull

    FROM:: Wine, Women & WiFi

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      Another good question Brother.  Rock 'n Roll at the sex farm?  I only know most of the folks there don't listen to Mr. Stair and his lies, screaming and hollering anymore as they are sick and tired of it.  Except for new folks like Tom Nuss who just don't know Mr. Stair well enough yet. Mr. Stair walks on egg shells around Tom because he has knowledge that Mr. Stair cannot live without.
     

      Anyway, I would always turn on my outside speakers very loud, in case Mr. Stair would come by and check, as he sometimes does.  But inside I would be watching a movie, mostly Bible movies and Documentaries.  Of course others are watching movies and some have even regressed to "skin flicks".  Samuel Slaughter was telling me the internet WiFi was set up there throughout much of the farm, hence, you have pornography in your own home or room.  I'm not sure what is going on there now.  Most everyone there has their own computer now.

       I would say most of what I hear is Christian or Contemporary Rock, like Don Francisco or Phil Driscoll.
     

      I can tell you some of the folks there have TV's in their house.  Yes!, it's true.
     

      Why do you think Brother, the people there are so content?  C'mon now, Wine Women and Song and free internet.  Why would you want to leave?
     

      Hope this helps your understanding, Brothers.

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM: To Brother Mike

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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     Brother Mike, here are some scriptures Mr. Stair does not want you to read.  He will not play over the air, nor will he preach about.
    WOW!!!

    Jer 23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

    Jer 23:11 For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

    Jer 23:12 Wherefore their way shall be unto them as slippery [ways] in the darkness: they shall be driven on, and fall therein: for I will bring evil upon them, [even] the year of their visitation, saith the LORD.

    Jer 23:13 And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.
     

    Jer 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness: they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

    Jer 29:23 Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and [am] a witness, saith the LORD.

    Jer 10:21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

    Pro 14:16 A wise [man] feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.

    Pro 6:32 [But] whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he [that] doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

    Mat 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Sin Permitting

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Hey Yall

      ralph is permitting chip and the others to do the night club scene solely because it keeps the workers from demanding a purity of walk from anyone as they are occupied with their own problems.

      Drinking wine for one's head sake is not an option for Christian living.

      As a medicine for helping the digestive simple trial and error will show 3-6oz max at varying body weights and % content alcohol .

      The Bible records that the coming of Jesus and John as people who would not be drinkers of wine. This is significant only when we understand that the infilling of the Holy Ghost is the real euphoria with strong drink as only a counterfeit.  

      Heathenestic  thinking has always pointed man to the release of their emotions and stress in the name of drinking one's cares away etc. When one man uses and endorses the drinking of wine for these purposes (Not saying that you did David) then this is an across the board invitation for everyone to experiment.

      Unfortunately most of the newly induced practitioners will find out what all men found out the hard way. This is in direct contradiction to the straight and narrow path that leads to life.

      Godly standards for all  are well trodden paths that keep us safe as a collective body and can be found in scripture.

      Here is one you may have missed?

      Hosea 4:11 Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.

      The heart spoken of here is the heart or spirit of God.

      Wine and Whoredom drive away the HOLY SPIRIT.

      Is it any surprise that ralph's farm has evolved from casual sex to allowing the use of alcohol as one of the most powerful drugs used today. Not to mention that the drug alcohol is condoned by most Americans while those terrible/nasty/evil drugs are the devils tools to destroy its user.

      Sex, Drugs and how about Rock and Roll? Do they play music at these night club events?

     

    NAME::  Dave Mull

    FROM::  Christian Up Bringing

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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      Well Brother, I didn't get drunk, just enough to help me get to sleep after having my face ripped off during the day from Mr. Stair.  True, I was wrong, I confess.  What would you have done in my shoes Brother? Besides leave.
     

      Now, this is a tough question. I have never engaged in promiscuous behavior there at the sex farm.  I believe what you said earlier about a woman and purity.  Guess the folk there were saying I am not a man.  That's OK, you see I had a very strong Christian up bringing. 

     

      God has kept me from the lust of this world. 

     

      And don't lie on me and tell me Dave Mull is perfect and without sin as I am a Chief of Sinners.

      

      You know Brother, the Ten Commandments are very dear to my heart, you can't say that about the sex farm. 

     

      Dave Morotto would always say "there is no sin in this camp", well, you can say anything by faith, I guess.  And that is one big reason I could not stay there any longer.  Sexual deviance is wide spread there as the brothers are becoming bolder in seeking sex. 

      At evening time that farm turns into a Night Club.  You tell Chip or Mr. Stair and they do nothing to stop it.  This type of behavior should be brought out into the open and dealt with head on and not hid.  That is the only way repentance and healing of the people can begin.  Sorry to say I do not think that will ever happen. 

     

      The Overcomer Ministry is in gross darkness and is no place for a Family or even a sister, married or single.
     

      Hope this helps your understanding, Brother!

    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: Double Exposure

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    We finally have a brother who is willing to tell the truth and expose his own sins.

    According to the Bible this is a manifestation of God's sweet Holy Spirit when that happens.

    You don't have to answer that question Dave if you don't want to, I was just being sarcastic.

     

    NAME:: Rowland

    FROM:: Farm Party Dogs

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    My goodness sake Brother Dave

    We are talking, not just a few ounces of wine for your stomach sake because over that effects the brain, but gallons. One barrel after another so even the little boys can follow the big boys to the trough.

    My My how absolute sin corrupts absolutely. One sin leads to another, Oh sex helps ones pain and drink helps ones pain. On and on.

    I guess people read the Bible thinking Jesus turned their water into wine so they can slug down one glass after another huh?

    Jesus and John were never involved in drinking recreationally like Americans do.

    Wine is a copy or a mocker of the Holy Spirit and Proverbs goes on to say that it is a strong drink that if taken in is like a fire that will burn you or is RAGING.

    What next?

    Hey Dave did ralph set you up with one of the sisters there? Or try to?

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull 

    FROM:: Clueless, Engrossed Descent

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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      Good question, Brother.  Before I moved to the sex farm in January 2004, wine making was well in progress.  Wine use to be set out on the tables until Romeo got smashed, then they moved the bottles to a little more secure location so as the children would not be tempted anymore.  I remember helping the Yost's pack for their move to the sex farm, I gave chip a gallon of white grape wine saying hope this isn't too strong for you brother.  Not to worry brother, we make strong wine also, chip said.
     

      When I moved to the sex farm, I brought about 85 gallons of red grape wine, most of which was consumed in a very short time.  I myself held back about 35 gallons for my own self.  No one knew about my stash.  Well, after about a year or so I ran out.  I sure did believe it would last as Mr. Stair was preaching about Jesus coming in the next year or two.  Of course Mr. Stair will tell you he never said that and that I am a "lying dog".
     

      So anyway, others at the sex farm began to enquirer and ask chip for wine.  Well, chip commenced full scale production and he still could not keep up with the demands.  Mr. Stair constantly said we were a bunch of drunks and after a year or so, Chip became spiteful and dumped all the fermenting wine into the canal and that was the end of the wine.  Or was it?  I began my own production at this time.  You have to understand Brother, there is unnecessary stress at the sex farm, all stemming from Mr. Stair's harassment and verbal and physical abuse.  And a few glasses of wine in the evening, or day, had a medicinal and calming effect on us, or at least me.
     

      Well, others began to find out I was in the wine production and needless to say I finally had to put a stop to distributing it as I could not keep up with the demands.  I resorted to explaining to the Brothers how to make wine, and that cut me out of the loop again.  Until!
     

      Robert Vargo was using money his wife had sent him, to pay the cellular phone bill at the sex farm, to support his wine habit.  But then, Angie no longer needed a phone at the sex farm, she bought her own.  Robert began hitting me up for wine, stating he needed it for his leg pain, or something like "I am having company tonight", (what kind of company???) and before long I could not keep up with production. 

      Thank God, along comes Larry Sauls.  Larry, banks his monthly income into his own account and frequently gave an offering to Tom Nuss.  Anyway, Larry is one who does what he wants and could care less what Mr. Stair says or thinks.  Larry made frequent trips to the Dentist and to Florida for a reunion with his worldly friends and each time, or so, he would pick up a bottle of, I think, Crown Royal or his brother would mail him a bottle.  And so, Larry became good friends with Robert and from that time on they would hold refreshment time after evening prayer, more than one drink I might add. 

     

      You see, Robert has a severe drinking problem and he cannot stop with a few shots of Crown Royal.  Robert told me this was  a problem he had. And so you see Mike, this is why Robert could not make it for Breakfast, usually until mid morning, because he was hung-over.  Robert's eyes were almost always bloodshot.
     

      Soon honey and yeast were becoming a scarce commodity because many of the Brothers were making their own wine supply.  I suppose they still are.
     

      Mr. Stair is clueless as to what is going on there because he is so engrossed in the sisters and watching pornography on his computer.  The brothers there could care less what Mr. Stair says or thinks.  Certainly Larry could care less as he already answered Mr. Stair, "if you want me to leave, I'll leave".  Well, Mr. Stair backed off so fast and immediately changed the subject.
     You see Brother, Mr. Stair is losing power and his mind at an alarming rate of descent, he's in essence in a nose dive.  You almost have to pity Mr. Stair.

    NAME:: Noel

    FROM:: Orlando

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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     It seems the tide is turning against Mr Stair, God never sleeps. To all the God fearing people at the overcomer ministry, who do you FEAR and REVERE most?, Jesus Christ or Ralph Stair. If Ralph is doing wrong please come out from under his dominion, Jesus Christ is Lord of all, do the right thing and STAND UP FOR JESUS CHRIST !!!

    NAME:: Editty Gaild

    FROM:: Ring Worm

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     
      Are you on the lookout for information on the right way to do away with a yeast infection? If that's the case, you're either suffering from a feminine, male or oral (thrush) candida yeast infection. One symptom that all of those conditions have in frequent are sores and blisters both in the vagina, the penis or the mouth. In the case of penile candida infections or vaginal candida infections, additional symptoms are burning and itching from rashes in the genitals.

    This article will describe easy methods to deal with a yeast infection from candida yeast.


      Get Rid Of a Yeast Infection With Prescription Or Over The Counter Cures
    If this is your first candida infection, you would possibly discover some success with over-the-counter remedies or remedies that have been prescribed by your doctor.

      These treatments would most certainly embrace ointments, creams and antibiotics which have antifungal ingredients that help to kill yeast. Examples of some merchandise would be Miconazole, Clotrimaz

     

    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: A Little Wine (Tummy)

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    One morning during that same time period in 95 before the big rush of families came I caught Wayne Douglas enjoying a small bottle of slightly fermented juice and I asked him what he was doing and with a big silly grind he told me it was  a little turned and quickly left the building as it was after night fall.

    Anyone ever see the use of treated juice at the farm?

    How about you Dave you just left the farm and said something about ralph's wine didn't you?


    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Judgment Day Now

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Today is the day of judgment for those at ralph's farm to choose salvation and deliverance. If ralph gets caught again he may go to a rehab unit for awhile and depending on the evaluation, many living at the farm might get free with a car and some grocery money to make a new start.

    As it stands now they would have to walk out with nothing. Most families who have members at stairs farm can not make it across the USA to pick them up. Many of them were told to tell there families they are going to hell or "Go to Hell" pretty much the same thing leaving ralph as their only hope to provide for themselves.

    If ralph gets some medical treatment other than the speeders and Viagra type drugs he takes, he might eventually recover from his gross negligence around the camp. Up until now ralph's actions may have not always been so obvious that point to a failure to a greater degree to handle the responsibilities of that farm.

    T. stair would be next for evaluation, but all of that money stands in the way of any of this unless the people at the farm start telling the truth about their leaders faltering capacity to do the right thing as a church head should.  

    The board must do this work from within the church.

    As long as the Judicial System can get a chunk of that money they would be more than willing to do a round two of reviewing all of the church farm facts. Once ralph runs out of money then he will need assistance and be at someone else's mercy like those at his farm are at his mercy.

    Many men have gone through this same process throughout history. They think they can do whatever they want because they have money and the big bucks keep them out of jail for a time.

    Trusting in money is not a wise choice as the system is designed to steal everything you have if you are an offender.

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull 

    FROM:: Breaking God's Laws

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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     Tis so true, my Brother.

      Mr. Stair can do as he pleases to those poor souls at the sex farm.  In essence, most all those folks there have voiced their grievances to Mana and myself at one time or another.  Except for those like Robert Vargo, Tom Nuss and Timothy Jones who actually lie and hide Mr. Stair's sins.  And, that is not Biblical.  Do you not know? Birds of a feather flock together.
     

      Well, yes my friend, money is tight and cars are in high demand as God's true followers are a threat to Mr. Stair and he is kicking them out.  Mind me now, Mr. Stair will again lie and says he kicks out no one.  Oh, Mr. Stair's head is spinning about 200 mph as of now because he is losing a lot of folks there. 

      Mr. Stair has but one hope; to prey on more unsuspecting Saints.  I remember answering questions for reporters at the sex farm and I in all honesty, LIED.  Shameful!!!  Mr. Stair is suffering from a severe case of dementia, of uncertain origin. 

      I wonder if Mr. Stair has moved Craig Mack onto the sex farm yet, as there is big black woman that would have to move in also with them. Believe me brother, Mr. Stair is engrossed all day long with his lusts.  What do you think he does in the radio room most of the day? 

      I remember Mr. Stair calling me into the radio room on many occasions to cover his track history on the computer.  I finally just showed him how to do it himself.  WOW!!! Was Mark Hodgson ever angry.  Him and Mr. Stair went at it verbally.  I just had to get out of there fast. 
     

      Mr. Stair no longer cares who knows about his sexual promiscuity, even with young teenager boys or girls as he has already brought out about his homosexual tendencies. 

    The IRS may not care about his abuse, but Mr. Stair will not escape the Judgment Day. All I know about "Travis" is that Mr. Stair says nothing nice about him.

    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: Church Fraud

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Hey Dave

    If you can't tell me names, then who could we tell because ralph has what he calls a captive audience meaning ralph can do whatever he wants with the farm folks wherever he wants to do it.

    If they have no key to leave and are given no money upon leaving, and he continues to force his perverted will on the farm pawns, then I will have to say things have really tightened up around there since that bunch of us left in 2001.

    I mean if half of the brothers know ralph is not a holy man for sure and therefore not this Prophet figure that ralph insists that he is and can not leave either, I would have to say that they are reaching a critical point collectively.

    I don't think it fair for them to have to be thrown out into the street simply for answering a few questions by a team of reporters or state officials as to ralph's diminishing capacity for rational decision making.

    Like Mana, myself  and others have mentioned before that we thought ralph must be getting worse mentally and physically due to his sexual exchanges or what he may be suffering medically.

    This subject is not closed nor does it look like ralph's condition is going to get any better as his desire for more partners and his age increases that must effect his whole being.

    When people become so engrossed with their insatiable lusts that they do not think about much else, they tent to get behind or fall out of  good communications with others who are not a source of quenching their appetites.

    In this setting ralph has always had a responsibility to the sheep, whom he fleeced, to care for their needs and to measure up to his 501c3 church Prophet status.

    It has become more and more evident lately that ralph  does not care who thinks of him as a holy Prophet or what people living at the farm consider a proper behavior for a man of God who runs a church, nor does the Gov require any verification that this individual is anything but what he says he is legally.

    If  ralph is going to claim church status while not adhering to basic church laws he should be disqualified after so many times of violating the rules.

    In other words a porno business for instances should not be able to say they are a 501c3 church if they don't do what a church should be doing without some kind of checks and balances that show that their corporation is in fact there to do church work and not for other purposes directly contrary to basic church  guidelines, such as unholy sexual actions as a goal or gathering money under false pretenses.

     

    Have you ever talked to Travis Avant?

     

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Pin The Tail On The Donkey

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    The first thing I had to listen to in 1995 as I moved into the farm, was ralph accusing one of the brothers of getting to close to sister stair.

    This person was Chip. I mean ralf grilled him right out in the open as if Chip had been sneaking around with T. stair. 

    Told again to stop walking around in the garden with her, had someone falling them if they did.

    Good gravy.  

    This was all done in the old dinning area because the new one had not been built yet.

    Right at this same time, poor little Naomi was 9 years old and wanted to talk to me and the first time her and I did, ralph yelled out loud as if to shame me for coming on to this little girl.

    ralph went on to say how little girls grow up and he did not want her being friendly with men.

    After that Naomi would almost run when she saw me, turning her back to flee even if I were just passing by.

    I guess ralph made her think I was some kind of freak and she sure stayed away from me to prove that out.

    The same place and time in the old dinning hall I talked to one of the Brunner girls while she did the dishes in 1995 I think the winter time.

    I was yelled at and belittled before the entire group by ralph for just talking. This girl was younger than all of my children, but no respect was ever granted to me other than doing a good engine job or some mechanical thing, get back out there boy I was treated.

    These were my first days at ralph's pervert oriented farm as he was the leader/dictator passing judgement on everyone without trial.

    Of course here comes all of the easy to manipulate brothers like Dave M. and Tim J. in their condescending  way to reinforce that I had better keep away from the little girl and stop operating in that worldly spirit that had taken over me to talk with the little girl.

    I could puke just thinking back and how just about every up coming chief man was directed by ralph to make sure all of those single brother like me, stay in line.

    Then all of the lesser sheep would see that the chief man doing his detective work, thinking of course the Prophet was only trying to keep out evil and as strong man was there to stop all bad character traits from manifesting.

    What torture that place was to me.

    Anytime I ever talked to the female of the species, I was looked upon as if I were trying to get into every sisters pants.

    Of course ralph told various one's to watch out for ole Mike Rowland just like Steven Jones and the list goes on.

    Naturally all of the married men just shook there heads as if everything ralph was saying was the pure holy unadulterated word of the living God.

    Sure this was and is the format ralph uses against his opponents (farm pawns) 

    Watch those single brothers now and they all did, while ralph was doing the wild thing to as many single and married sisters he could.

    Wayne Douglas would have liked to have taken a wife and was forbid to MARY.

    Yall don't want to get my anymore fired up than this, trust me on that.

    I willingly suffered the entire 6 years under heavy oppression in this combat zone we all call THE OVERCOMER MINISTRY FARM

    I understand that it was supposed to be this way for our test.

    God Bless you Tim Butler and Net Team members. 

    Thanks for getting me on that subjet of that B.S. strongman rubbish.

    ralph is a strongman for the dark over lords of sexual perversion and is without doubt a PROPHET of BAAL.

    This is how God got me angry enough to stay here at THE NET TEAM until hell freezes over.

    Amen

     

    NAME:: Tim Butler

    FROM::Women's Panties

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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     I remember when women's panties were showing up in an empty trailer and Ralph blamed poor Stephen Jones for the act, saying the young man was stealing women's panties from the clothes lines.


    Even Theresa one day blamed my son Matt for lusting after her. Matt had dropped something on the ground and was trying to find it when Theresa walked up and said he was lusting after her. Matt sure got a sermon on that one.


    Theresa one day walked into the horse barn where my daughter, Pete and my wife were working and talking. Theresa didn't see my wife and started getting on Pete and Lelah for being alone there before my wife spoke up and said, Their not alone.


    I say all this to say that sexual lust and perversion is rampant, not just with ole R.G. but with Theresa too.


     When things weren't going right on the farm Stair would look at the men there and say "who let that spirit in?" The bible teaches us that a spirit can't enter in except the strong man be bound first. Stair was supposed to be the strong man there.

    NAME:: THE NET TEAM

    FROM:: False and False

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    #1 Here is the file of ralph on the TV set telling the world that financial collapse would be here by the end of the year and this was right after black Monday.

    #2 President Reagan would not finish his normal term allotted to a president

    http://www.thenetteam.net/doom20.html

    You will be the free player called REAPLAYER here is the link

    http://www.real.com/download/redirect?type=rpsp_us_rpcom5

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull 

    FROM:: ralf's Kitchen Mandate

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Brother mike, I am sure I have addressed this issue before, however, let's put everything into perspective here for those whom are learning about what type of animal Ralph Stair really is.
     

      No, Ralph has never asked my wife for sexual favors or has ever had sex with Ralph Stair.  You have to understand, Brother, Ralph Stair prefers black women (as stated by Sandy Jones) to white women.  And besides, the sisters there at the sex farm tell me Brother Stair likes big breasted women, Hence, my wife (Mana Mull) was not of interest to Ralph Stair for this very reason. 

      Now, I did observe Brother Stair take a hug from Mana on two occasions.  I did not think much of it at the time, thinking it was innocent and cute.  That was before I learned of Ralph's hidden skeletons' in his closet.
     

       Yes, you are correct Brother; the sisters are wonderful expressions of God's purity. I can believe what you have relayed about the sisters being in the kitchen.  As of 2004, brothers were not allowed in the kitchen, even to help their wives.  Brother stair sternly warned me not to be in there to help Mana. 

      "Brother Stair" mandated, no one is allowed in the dining hall before 6:00 am. 

      Now brother, here is Stair's reasoning behind this; "brother Stair" wanted time in the kitchen with the sisters to himself.  And believe me brother, Ralph Stair was in the kitchen every morning to get his cup of coffee and virtually undress the sisters.  Ralph Stair has a full kitchen in his house, why not get a cup of coffee there? 

      Ralph Stair must believe we are stupid not to see his evil intentions.  I don't know how Ralph Stair did it, but he was always one step ahead of Teresa, until she said she caught him in bed with Rose Larivee.
     

      Yes Brother, "Brother Stair" has personally asked almost every sister there for sexual favors.  How do I know? Because the sisters talk amongst themselves as well as the children know everything going on there.  Believe me Brother, I cannot give names now, as Stair will rain terror on them poor sisters.  I can tell you about Mary Bonner, she spilled everything to Mana about Ralph Stair.  How he would bring her chocolates and flowers asking for sexual favors. 

      You ask, why didn't we pull out then?  Well, there is a demonic spirit hanging over that place and it is very difficult to break from it.
     

      Yes Brother, Ralph Stair has given us all that weeping put-on in the Tabernacle.  I believed him, only later to find out he is up to his promiscuous behavior again.
     

      You're right Brother, Ralph Stair takes the focus of himself and places the blame on those leaving for safe haven, calling them heathens, Judas's and dogs.  Remember brother?  Ralph calls evil good and good evil, huh? 
     

      Brother Mike, I have no doubt in my mind "Brother Stair" is still up to his lustful shenanigans.

      Hope this helps your understanding, Brothers!

     

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Asking For Sex

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Hey David, did ralph ever force himself on your wife mana? 

    All of our sisters spiritually are wonderful expressions of God's purity and I think that the demons that rule ralph want to destroy this good quality.

    Did you ever think ralph was making advances toward YOUR wife while living on the farm?

    I know Mike Brunner did not openly make this statement but the close families to their family members, relayed this info about the kitchen area:

    Basically ralph would come into the kitchen are  and the Brunners, Bennetts, Robinsons, Jacksons/ big families knew ralph would come in and put his arms around a sister like MARY from Ohio who is not passed, from the back or front and give her a kiss, talking gentle.

    Each of these family member were hugged by surprise and asked the sex question.

    Now ralph's wife might be 5 minutes behind him and she would come through looking for ralph shortly after one of these events.

    The big families who operated the kitchen daily shared all of these details amongst themselves about ralph's behavior for years.

    I would think from our experience that almost every pure girl was asked if they would give in to ralph.

    Did you ever personally hear people say that ralph asked them to do sexual favors

    or see the hugging in plain sight while all the single brother watched?

    When the group in 2001 exited the farm just about all of our sisters had been approached by ralph and his chief men. 

    Of course ralph admitted all of this in meetings thinking he could convince a few with money to stay, knowing that the majority would be disgusted/appalled and would leave on their own with ralph winning all the way around.

    However in the national spot light those leaving were all dogs, heathens, Judas types,  evil etc.............not one word of his continued adulterous practices. 

    Only damage control from every angle as ralph continued daily overtaking  the same girls he had engaged with immorally that he was supposed to be sorry about.

    Did you see anything like this going on at ralphs corporation farm?

     

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: 10 Million

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    ralph is saying that, to take the pressure off him so everyone who is going without at the farm will lighten up on ralph.

    If anyone asks ralph about the 10 mill he will probably do something like this:

    ralph will wait till he is preaching in a 6 hour brain lock service where he repeats himself 1500 times and when everyone gets to falling off their chair from physical exhaustion, ole ralph will maybe come up with one of these numbers:

    "Well I was looking over the books and God spoke to me that HE works in mysterious ways and all together in the last few years God has given me 10 mill right under our noses?"

    Then ralph will require everyone to get those looks off their faces calling them everything in the book, hypo's, dead heads..............ask why they are not jumping up and down in excitement and so on.

    See isn't God wonderful ralph will assert?

    That is standard procedure for ralph and his damage control smoke screen.

     

    NAME:: David Mull

    FROM:: 10 Million Dollars

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Good Morning Brother Mike,
     

      While we were at the OvercomHER Ministry, Mr. Stair would constantly bring up the ten million dollars God was going to give him.

    Well, our last two years there we have not heard even such as a whisper about it.
     

    I don't know, maybe God changed his mind again,  gOd seems to do that a lot with Mr. Stair.

    It's been over eight years now. What's going on?

    Have you heard anything of the ten million dollars coming to Mr. Stair?

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Thus Saith The Lord

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    Yup brother, that's the one. WOW!!!
     

    Ralph said he never said that.
     

    You see how "brother Stair" lies?
     

    "brother Stair" says he is not a prophesying prophet.
    that is why Stair says "whatever comes out of my mouth IS thus saith the Lord".
     

    Dave Morotto says "brother Stair is the Word of God"
    What blasphemy.
     

    Mr. Stair is right when he calls us all "fools", because we believe him.
     

    I am very thankful God has delivered me from that pit of lies.

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: No Money To Leave

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

     

    Sign Here::

      I'm here on this Sabbath day resting, and thinking what Mr. Stair is lying about to me in his service today. Like you and the others, brother Mike, "go to hell you devils", "you dogs", "you lie on me" "Dave Mull, you have done the body much harm". 

    Why? Have I become your enemy because I tell you the truth? Ex: your sex with Rose Larivee and the other young women. What man of God would talk to a child of God using the aforementioned language?
     

     I am truly sorrowful for the brothers and sisters there at Ralph Stair's sex farm, as they know he is a liar and a sex pervert and not a prophet at all. They are helpless and at Stair's mercy, which Stair has none.
     

     You see brother, Mr. Stair has taken all from the brothers, hence, they have nothing. Stair will not give them money to leave now, the brothers are stuck there for the rest of their lives.

    Psa 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
     

    God has delivered us brothers!
     

      Most of the sisters have yeast infections and some severe with vaginal bleeding and pain.  of course, Mr. Stair will not let them go to the Dr., yeast infections can be cured very easily, unlike Mr. Stair's brain deterioration.

     

    Stair says, "if you die, we will bury you".

     

    I don't know how many times Stair has shouted that to my wife and I (face).

     

      How convenient for Mr. Stair to spend thousands of dollars on his teeth and will not let the brothers go to the dentist anymore now.
     

      Most of the brothers know he is not a prophet of God, but what can they do? They can't throw him off the compound like Stair Says they can. Mr./Mrs. Stair are president and vice, as well as treasurer.
     

      When we were there, for five years Stair would keep us in the dining hall for hours on end telling us his stories over and over again. We brothers are sick and tired of it.  His brain is irreversibly damaged and he cannot remember.
     

      There is a demonic spirit hovering over the overcome"HER" compound. And it is inescapable unless you obey the word of God.  This is why the Bible says "come out of HER my people and be not partakers of HER sins", Rev 18:4


    Here are scripture describing Mr. Stair:

    Psa 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or [that] thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?

    Psa 50:17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee.
     

    Psa 50:18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.
     

    Psa 50:19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.

    Psa 50:20 Thou sittest [and] speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

    Psa 50:21 These [things] hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether [such an one] as thyself: [but] I will reprove thee, and set [them] in order before thine eyes.
     

    Psa 50:22 Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear [you] in pieces, and [there be] none to deliver.


    Dave Mull

     

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: ralph's Laundromat

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

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    You mean this file that almost everyone heard after Sabbath service back in  1998-1999?

    http://www.thenetteam.net/yr2000lie.mp3

     

    ralph is having tough time explaining his statement so like all of his false

    predictions he must pass it off somehow or pin it all on others.

     

    People around the world heard this many times plus heard ralph say he would tell gOd to

    go to hell if HE didn't make a major move by the year 2000.

     

    Many men made this very same mistake for 2000.

     

    That is funny Dave that ralph is saying that this audio is not him.

    I don't see why not though as ralph will stoop to any low level to smooth over being

    caught in another lie

     

    NAME:: Dave

    FROM:: ralph's Year 2000 Lie

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     I remember in the dining hall, ralph told us you (Mike Rowland)  had cut and pasted his words in a computerized audio file to say "if Jesus does not come by the y2k, I'll go off the air" and probably tell God to go to Hell using Cool Edit Pro.

    NAME:: SC Court

    FROM:: Deposition

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA                                    CIRCUIT COURT

    COUNTY OF COLLETON                                             2004-CP-15-382

                                                                                 VOLUME 1

     

    GLENDON ALLABY, KATHRYN ALLABY,

    CORA PFUND, ERIC PFUND, GREG LINDSEY,

    LARRY HARTLEY, MICHAEL DUVAL,

    KATHLEEN, DUVUAL, PEARL BUTLER, TIMOTHY

    BUTLER, and KEVIN NEVIN

                            PLAINTIFF

     

    VS

     

    R. G. STAIR, and FAITH CATHEDRAL

    FELLOWSHIP, INC. a / k / a  OVERCOMER

    MINISTRIES,

                            DEFENDANT

     

     

    EXCERPTS OF DEPOSITION OF R. G. STAIR               VOLUME 1 PAGE 138 LINE 23

     THROUGH

                                                                                        VOLUME 1 PAGE 152 LINE 23

     

    MR. UTSEY:                  Your Honor, for our first witness we will, pursuant to South Carolina Rule of Civil procedures 32 A-2 read from the deposition of Ralph Stair.

              To assist me, I’m going to have Mr. Whittington read the answers from the deposition transcript and I’ll read the questions.

    THE COURT:               All right.  Ladies and gentlemen, before we get started, let me explain that a deposition is, as you may know, is an out-of-court testimony that is taken in advance of trial.  It is taken usually at a lawyer’s office or other location.  And there’s a court reporter there as well who takes down everything that is said, the questions and the responses to the questions.  And they are transcribed and you are to treat deposition testimony just the same as you would any other testimony.  And it’s to be afforded the same weight as live testimony.  And you certainly can judge the credibility of the testimony just as you do any other evidence during this case.

              All right.  Yes, sir. Go ahead.

    MR. UTSEY:          Your Honor, for the record the original of this deposition has previously been filed with the Court.

    THE COURT:               Yes, sir.  I saw it in here.  Thank you.

              (Thereupon, excerpts of the deposition of R. G. Stair, was read into the record as follows: )

    BY MR. UTSEY:

    Q.       We’ll begin on page 17 line 21.

              Let me get some more background information on you, Mr. Stair.  How far did you go in terms of formal education?

    A.        I went to the 10th grade.

    Q.          Where was that?

    A.      In Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

    Q.          What school was that?

    A.          Bethlehem high School.  That is the last one I attended.

    Q.     Did you get a GED after that, or any other formal education?

    A.      No.  I took Bible study courses and things like that from various religious organizations but I never –

    Q.     Did you ever serve in the military?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Tell me about your religious training, your Bible study courses or however you want to characterize it.

    A.      Well, you just took Bible study courses that they had, theological doctrines and things like that.  That’s what they were.

    Q.     Are these formal courses of study?

    A.      Yes.  Sure.

    Q.     And when you finished those, do you get some sort of certificate of completion or degree?

    A.      They would just give you a little certificate of completion.

    Q.     Give me some idea of what those involved or which ones of those you’ve done.

    A.      Well, I took a course with the Free Methodist Church.  That is back when I was 17, 18 year of age.  I have never had any theological biblical school things.  I started preaching when I was 16.

              And my preaching, my manner of life was under the auspices of different churches where you would run this – they would call you an exhorter or something like that.  And you would practice your ministry.  And they would then approve you, approve of you, whether you were a paster or not.  I joined maybe four or five churches over the years, but most of time I just preached.

    Q.     I don’t have lot of experience with the structure or lack of structure that is associated with that.  So some of my questions may sound like they’re uninformed and that is because they are.  So help me in understanding this.

              First in terms of certificate of completion –  

    A.      I don’t have any.   

    Q.     You don’t have any of these?

    A.          Nope.

    Q.     You said that some churches have recognized you as a pastor or –

    A.      Well, you would start out – when I first started out, I started out in what they called at that time was the Holiness Christian Church, and then I went to the Free Methodist Church.

              And each one of those churches would have steps of degree of preaching.  First they would give you what they call an exhorter’s license, and then you would operate under that for a year or two.  And then if you met their qualifications they would advance you to another license, and eventually you would get ordained.

              That was a lot of different organizations that I worked in because I was a traveling evangelist and I would work with a lot of them.

    Q.     Were you ordained in any of those churches?

    A.      No.

    Q.          What would have been the highest level that you attained with them?

    A.      A licensed preacher, a licensed pastor or a licensed evangelist.

    Q.          When I hear the term licensed that suggests –

    A.      They would give you a license that they recognized as a pastor or an evangelist in their group.

    Q.     A license being issued by the group?

    A.          Right.

    Q.     As opposed to some sort of state agency or something like that?

    A.          Right.

    Q.     And now we’ll go to page 21, line 21.      

    I’m just trying to find out, in which churches have you been acknowledged to have obtained some level as a pastor or a minister?

    A.      The only two that I can – or three of them, there’s three of them.  One was the Free Methodist Church.  That is very many years ago.  Then another group which is a very small group called the German Eldership Church of God.  And that was a small group in Pennsylvania.  Then for several years I was licensed with the Assembly of God.

              The others are in the course of time, you know, we became an official organized church our self with federal recognition.  So we have ability to ordain our own preachers or license our own preachers.

    Q.          You’re talking about your current church?

    A.      Yes, which has been in existence for 25 years at least, or maybe 30.

    Q.     Now, we’ll go to page 24, beginning at line 19. 

    If I call it Overcomer Ministries, is that the easiest way to describe it?

    A.      Sure.

    Q.     The full official name of Overcomer Ministries though is, What?

    A.      Faith Cathedral Fellowship.

    Q.     How long has it been named Faith Cathedral?

    A.      Oh, at least 25 years.

    Q.     It’s always had the same name?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     As I understand it, that’s a corporation and that is the official name of the ministry?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     But Overcomer Ministries is the day-to-day name that most people refer to it as, that you refer to it as?

    A.      Well, that is the way we refer to it, yes, because that is the outreach of Faith Cathedral Fellowship.

    Q.          When was Faith Cathedral Fellowship incorporated?

    A.      I don’t have the exact date but, like I say, it’s been 25 years.  Paul Siegel did it. He did it for us and did a good job.

    Q.     Now let’s go to page 27, beginning on line eight.          Did he also assist you with any other legal aspects of forming?

    A.      He then got us – he set up the incorporation, the board and the bylaws and everything that is required to be recognized by the state, and then he filed and got us the federal recognition.

    Q.     The 501 (c) (3)?

    A.          Right.

    Q.     Now on page 27, line 22.          

    So has Faith Cathedral Fellowship enjoyed 501 (c) (3) status continuously since that time?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     So that would be approximately, again, 25 years?

    A.      25 years, yes.  I would have to get the exact date.

    Q.          What was involved in attaining that status?

    A.          Nothing particularly that I know of, just applying for it and getting it.

    Q.     Do you remember what the application process involved?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Are there any ongoing reporting requirements associated with that status?

    A.      No.

    Q.     In other words, you have to make filings on an annual basis, for example?

    A.      Not on that one.  We are not a nonprofit organization per se. We are a religious organization and religious organizations do not have to file reports.

    Q.     So other than obtaining that 501 (c)(3) status approximately 25 years ago, have you any communications with the Internal Revenue Service concerning that status since then?

    A.      No, because we have met the requirements.  We still do.

    Q.     Now, let’s go to page 33, beginning at line 18. 

    Do you have an accountant for the Fellowship?

    A.      Just my wife.  She’s our accountant.

    Q.     Is she actually an accountant or a bookkeeper or what?

    A.      She’s very good at it.

    Q.     Well, does she have any formal training, I guess, is what I’m asking?

    A.      No.

    Q.     How long has she been in that position of accountant or bookkeeper?

    A.      Ever since we were married.

    Q.     So the entire life of Faith Cathedral Fellowship, has she been the person that has handled that end of it?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Does she have an official title with Faith Cathedral Fellowship?

    A.      No.   She is a vice president of the corporation.

    Q.          That’s kind of what I’m driving at.  Who’s the treasurer of the corporation?

    A.      I would say that she’s the treasurer, yes.

    Q.     Has there ever been anyone else who’s handled the books at Faith Cathedral Fellowship other than Teresa?

    A.          Nope.

    Q.          Have the books ever been subject to any sort of external audit by an accounting firm or otherwise?

    A.      No.

    Q.          Have you ever used a CPA firm or any other outside accountant with respect to Faith Cathedral Fellowship?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Now, let’s going to page 39, beginning at line 16.           

    Help me understand the structure of Faith Cathedral Fellowship.  I mean, I understand you have officers that we’ve just discussed and a board of directors.  And,  again, this is a question of total ignorance as far as how this church is organized.

              I could have a preconceived notion because the church I’ve always attended is set up one way and yours is probably different.  So I don’t know how to compare them.

              Are there employees at all?

    A.      No.

    Q.     No employees.  Is there a church discipline or some structure within the church as far as who is the head of the church?

    A.      We have the bylaws, the church bylaws that have been incorporated and we function by the bylaws.

    Q.     Are those corporate bylaws or are they different?

    A.          Corporate bylaws.

    Q.          Other than that, is there any sort of text which deals with how the church is organized and operated?

    A.      Only according to the Bible.  We use the scriptures through our discipline.

    Q.     Now to page 59, beginning at line nine.

              Who is the custodian of corporate records with Faith Cathedral Fellowship?

    A.          Custodian?

    Q.     Is there one person that maintains corporate records? If I want to get them, who would be the best person to go to to get them?

    A.          Probably me.

    Q.     Does that include minutes of the board of direcrots’ meetings?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Does that include financial records?

    A.      Yes, I would be the one to authorize it.

    Q.     Does that include corporate records, things that you filed with the state, that sort of thing?

    A.      We don’t file with the state.

    Q.     Well, to obtain a corporation status you had to have a –

    A.      I have all of those records, yes.

    Q.     Now, on line 14.

              Is there anyone else at Faith Cathedral Fellowship that has the authority to dictate what is spent and what is not spent?

    A.      They all do, if they want to.

    Q.     Does anyone else exercise that authority?

    A.      No, They trust me.

    Q.     Does the board have to approve your decisions with respect to expenditures?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Does it, in fact, do that?

    A.      No.  They could if they wanted to, but they don’t need to.

    Q.     So in terms of what money Faith Cathedral Fellowship spends, you’re the one making those decisions?

    A.          Basically, yes.

    Q.     Well, basically suggests that’s not a yes or not a complete yes.

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     It is a yes?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Okay. Now, we go to page 71, line 23.

              How does Overcomer Ministries – what income does it have?

    A.      I’m not sure if I understand your question.

    Q.     Well, does Overcomer Ministries have income? Does it have money that comes into it?

    A.      Yes. People give us offerings.

    Q.     Does it have any other source of income?

    A.      No.

    Q.     And generally speaking, I’ve got some computer printouts that we’ll talk about in a moment that your attorney has turned over but, generally speaking, what categories of expenditures does Overcomer Ministries have? What does it spend its money on?

    A.          Radio broadcasting.

    Q.          Anything else?

    A.      And maintaining of the facilities up there on the farm.  That’s it.

    Q.     Now we go to page 81, beginning at line 22.

              Does Faith Cathedral Fellowship have a policy with respect to the return of any offerings or donations?

    A.      No.

    Q.     In the past, has Faith Cathedral Fellowship ever returned some or all of anyone’s donations or offerings?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     How were the decisions made to do that?

    A.      I make the decision.

    Q.     On how many occasions have you done that?

    A.      Oh, eight or 10.

    Q.     Now line 16.

              Under what circumstances have you returned some or all of the person’s offerings?

    A.          When I felt like they weren’t really giving it.

    Q.     Now page 83, line one.

              Are there any other reasons that you’ve ever returned an offering?

    A.      No. The only time I have returned an offering is when people who came and lived with us and then they left.  I would never send anybody away empty.  I would always make sure they had money.  Some came with nothing and I sent them away with some offerings because I felt like if they no longer wanted to live under our status and they were going back out there, I wouldn’t send them out without some money and I didn’t do it.

    Q.     Now on page 84, line 21.

              When you say it comes into one account, is that a bank account?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     And what bank would that be?

    A.      Right now it’s Walterboro Bank.

    Q.     Now on page 85, line six.

              And the account is listed under what name?

    A.      Faith Cathedral.

    Q.     Is your name also on the account?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.           Individually?

    A.      Uh-huh.

    Q.     Why is that?

    A.          Because I’m the one that exercises the business.   I’m the one authorized by the board and the corporation to handle the business.

    Q.     So you write the checks or sign the checks at least?

    A.      I sign the checks and my wife signs the checks.

    Q.     Now over to page 235, beginning on line six.

              Now, you said you didn’t make any promises or representations as to the use of the funds that they, being the Plaintiffs, offered?

    A.          That’s right.

    Q.     Are you saying that you could have done anything with those funds and it would have been appropriate?

    A.      No. I didn’t say that.  I –

    Q.     I’m asking you if you are saying that?

    A.      No.  I would do the appropriate thing with it.

    Q.     Now on line 24.

              Could you have used those funds to gamble?

    A.      I could have stole every dime if I wanted to, but I didn’t because I have a god in here. I have a righteousness in me.  I could be like a lot of other crooks out there, like lawyer crooks and like any other crooks, like preachers that have been crooks, yes, I could have, but I haven’t done that and I didn’t do that.

    Q.     All right.  Your Honor, that’s all we have from this deposition at this time.

              THE COURT:               All right.

     

     




    NAME:: SC Court

    FROM:: Accountant

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA                                    CIRCUIT COURT

    COUNTY OF COLLETON                                             2004-CP-15-382

                                                                                 VOLUME 1

     

    GLENDON ALLABY, KATHRYN ALLABY,

    CORA PFUND, ERIC PFUND, GREG LINDSEY,

    LARRY HARTLEY, MICHAEL DUVAL,

    KATHLEEN, DUVUAL, PEARL BUTLER, TIMOTHY

    BUTLER, and KEVIN NEVIN

                            PLAINTIFF

     

    VS

     

    R. G. STAIR, and FAITH CATHEDRAL

    FELLOWSHIP, INC. a / k / a  OVERCOMER

    MINISTRIES,

                            DEFENDANT

     

     

    DIRECT EXAMINATION OF                                       VOLUME 1 PAGE 152 LINE 25

           WILLIAM ELLISON THOMAS                                                         THROUGH

                                                                                        VOLUME 1 PAGE 194 LINE 9

     

     

    WILLIAM ELLISON THOMAS, having been duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

    DIRECT EXAMINATION

              CLERK OF COURTS:              Please have a seat on the witness stand.  State your full name for the record.

              THE WITNESS:          My name is William Ellison Thomas.

    BY MR. UTSEY:

    Q.     Mr. Thomas, where do you live, sir?

    A.      I live in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.

    Q.          Where are you from originally?

    A.          Walterboro.

    Q.     How long have you been in Mount Pleasant?

    A.      Since about 1988.

    Q.          What do you do for a living?

    A.      I’m a CPA, certified public accountant.

    Q.     How about explain to these folks what kind of education and training you’ve had to become a certified public accountant?

    A.      Well, I went to the Citadel and got an undergraduate degree in business administration.  Then I sat for the CPA exam and passed the exam in 1986.  I graduated from the Citadel in 1983.

    Q.          What’s involved with the CPA exam, what is that?

    A.      Well, it’s a national test.  It’s given at the state level.  It’s four parts.  You have to pass each part and there are rules about which part you can pass and keep and all of that, but at the end you have to pass all four parts to become a certified public accountant.

    Q.     That was in 1986?

    A.      Yes, I think I passed it in 1986.

    Q.     So for the past 21 years, have you been working as a certified public accountant?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Can you give us a little flavor of your actual employment background? What kind of work have you done as a CPA since then?

    A.      My first job was with Ernst and Winnie which was a national, what we call one of the big league accounting firms.  I worked in their office in Spartanburg, South Carolina for two and a half years as an auditor for textile manufacturers which of course we don’t have any of those anymore.

              But we did lypo (phonetically) inventories which was a complex calculation of valuing inventories for tax purposes.

              And then I spent some time working with my brother here in Walterboro, worked for several car dealerships as their controller for maybe about five or six years.  And then I went on my own as a sole practitioner.  And I’ve done – I used to have a pretty big tax base where I did income tax returns for small companies or for individuals.

              I’ve done a little bit of estate planning, but recently my focus has been in the area of forensic accounting which is a – it takes investigative, auditing and account skills and puts them together to create a testament of what I’m doing here today, where I interact in legal disputes and am retained often, about 80 percent of the time, 80 percent of my life now I spend doing what we call support for litigation.

    Q.     And how long have you been doing forensic accounting?

    A.      For quite a while.  Probably 10 years.  Now I haven’t been doing it – 80 percent of my workload hasn’t been -- it sort of has shifted where I used to do, when I first started it was very small, and then it warped over to where now mostly what I do id forensic accounting. In the beginning mostly what I did was income tax returns and things of that nature.

     Q.          Have you testified in the state courts here in the State of South Carolina?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Have you been offered and accepted by the courts as an expert witness in the fields of forensic accounting and tax?

    A.      Yes.  I have been recognized as an expert in tax and accounting matters.  I have been recognized as an expert in forensic account matters.

              MR. UTSEY:                  Your Honor, we would offer Mr. Thomas as an expert in the field of forensic accounting and tax matters.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          No objection.  Please proceed.

              THE COURT:               All right. Ladies and gentlemen, let me just tell you briefly. An expert witness is someone qualified under the law by their training, education or experience in some field and they’re entitled to give their opinions.

              Usually witnesses can only testify about the facts they observed firsthand or things they know about from having received them through one of their senses, but there is an exception for expert witnesses who testify about their opinions, and furnish you their opinions.  But you determine the credibility of all the witnesses including expert witnesses.  Okay.

              Yes, sir.  Go ahead.

              MR. UTSEY:                  Thank you, Your Honor.

    BY MR. UTSEY:

    Q.     Mr. Thomas, one thing that I neglected to ask you about is whether in public service have you ever worked in connection with any organizations in the public sector?

    A.      Yes, I have.

    Q.          Please tell the jury about that.

    A.      I served on the Board of the Patriots Point Development Authority which is the state-run organization that runs the Yorktown I Mount Pleasant, South Carolina.  It is a 501 (c)(3).  And I was appointed by Governor Hodges to serve on that board.

    Q.     And what position did you hold on that board?

    A.      Well, a board member but my – I guess because of my accounting, I end up in the finances or being the treasurer of an organization.  So I was the head of the chairman of the finance committee and served as chairman of the development committee as well.

    Q.     How long did you do that?

    A.      Oh, maybe three years.

    Q.     Now, these folks have hear me mention the term 501 (c)(3), and now you have used that term as well.  Is that an accounting term?

    A.          Actually it’s not.  It’s actually a tax term.

    Q.          Okay.  Explain to these folks and to me what a 501 (c)(3) means.

    A.      Well, a 501 (c)(3) is a designation that you get by – the easiest way to put it is, there’s a multi-page application that you fill out.  And you send that to the federal government.  There are a bounty of rules that go with being a 501 (c)(3).

              And upon completing the application, then you become a 501 (c)(3) and you get a determination letter.  But it’s a fancy way of calling it a charitable organization.

    Q.     And when someone is subject to 501 (c)(3) or has the benefit of 501 (c)(3) status from the IRS, are they subject to ITS rules and regulations?

    A.          They’re subject to a bounty of rules and regulations.

    Q.     Are you, as an accountant, familiar with those rules and regulations?

    A.      Yes.  I’m familiar with the, sort of the documents that govern it.  In other words, to bring in the entire code section of what all the 501 (c)(3) has to do would be very difficult, so we’ve sort of narrowed it down to just an overview of what 501 (c)(3)’s have to do.

    Q.     And in your practical experience, working on the finance committee and on the board for the Patriots Point Development Authority, did you have the opportunity in your actual professional life to apply some of the rules and regulations that are applicable to a rule – section 501 (c)(3)?

    A.      As a board, we are in charge of the operations.  So we would have quarterly meeting, sometimes monthly meetings, just depending upon how many issues we had.  And, of course we would have a staff and that staff would be tasked with various things they had to do, and being in compliance with whatever federal and state things we had to stay in compliance with; yes.

    Q.     Now you mentioned earlier that when you get involved in forensic accounting most of that is being retained for litigation support like you’re doing here?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Who retains you, typically?

    A.          Typically I get retained by a lawyer and then that lawyer explains the case to me and then I work for the client that is on one side or the other.  But I am a, for lack of better word, I’m testifying to the Court.  I’m not testifying to their – I’m not an advocate of their position.  I’m just an advocate of whatever the facts are in the case.

    Q.     Who retained you in this case?

    A.      You did.

    Q.          When you’re retained by a lawyer or by a party in litigation, how do you get paid?

    A.          Usually up front.

    Q.     In all seriousness, who pays you?

    A.          Usually the lawyer.  Sometimes I’ve had clients that have actually paid me, but usually the lawyers write the checks to me.

    Q.          Okay.  And how do you charge for your time?

    A.      I charge $155 an hour plus out-of-pocket expenses.

    Q.     Is that your standard charge regardless of who’s hiring you?

    A.      Yes.  That’s been my standard charge for years actually.

    Q.     Is that what you’ve agreed to charge us for the work that we’ve had you do in this case as well?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Okay. And did we pay you an up-front payment?

    A.      Yes, you paid me a retainer and I started working.

    Q.     Did we pay you that retainer before you’d ever even looked at anything in this case or talked about anything?

    A.      Yes, yes.

    Q.     Now, what have you done in this case, Mr. Thomas?

    A.      Well, I’ve examined a lot of documents, for one thing. I believe I have – I’ve looked at the books and the records that were provided from the corporation in electronic form and in .pdf form.

              I have read the depositions of Mr. and Mrs. Stair.  I have done some tax research on unrelated business income taxes for 501 (c)(3)’s.  And I have looked at employee – employment relationships in religious organizations.  I’ve read some revenue rulings from the IRS, looked at some IRS publications, and looked at the instructions for some forms for some taxes that some 501 (c) (3)’s have to file, and looked at some articles in the Journal of Accountancy which is a monthly publication that CPAs get.

    Q.     Now with respect to the IRS forms that you made reference to, and I think you said revenue rulings and publications and the Journal of Accountancy that you referred to, are these the types of tools that forensic accountants in the field that you practice typically use when they’re reviewing a particular situation and offer opinions on it?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Did you in fact use those as tools in evaluation the information that you reviewed in this case?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Have you reached any opinions as a result of the work that you’ve done in this case?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     And are those opinions that you hold to a reasonable degree of forensic accounting certainty?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Mr. Thomas, if you can just give us a broad overview.  What opinions have you reached with respect to Faith Cathedral Fellowship and Mr. Stair?

    A.      Well, let me – I’m going to have to flip a little bit because this is a bad time of the year for me to be testifying.

    Q.     Why is that?

    A.      Well, that’s because I got a lot of work to do, to do some tax returns.

    Q.     Mr. Thomas –

    A.          Some of you look like you haven’t filed either.

    Q.     -- this lady on the front row can’t hear, so you’re going to need to speak up a little bit.  You are kind of quiet.  If you pull that microphone in a little bit or if Mr. Moore can turn it up.

    A.      Is that better?

              In reviewing the books, the – it appears to me that Mr. Stair has taken an income or assets of the organization for his personal benefit or the benefit of others;  Mr. Stair has taken income or assets of the organization to the benefit pf a political campaign; that the corporation engages in work, trade or business that the people who are engaged doing the work, the employees, are not being taxed, they’re not paying federal income tax or state income tax or Social Security tax; and that the corporation is engaged in businesses that – trade or business that is subject to what is called UBIT which is unrelated business income tax that a 501 (c) (3) can have a business.

              In other words, a church could run a small construction business, but it would be subject to taxes at a corporate level.  It would just not be just exempt from taxes if a church wanted to get into the business of running a small construction job.

    Q.     Why is that?

    A.      Why are they subject to tax?

    Q.     Why would a church have to pay taxes if they’re running a construction business?

    A.      Well, the main reason that they would have to pay taxes is because if any of you have a business and you’re out there and you’re bidding jobs, and there is a organization that’s out there that can bid the same job that you have but they don’t have to pay income tax, they don’t have to pay taxes on their employees, it becomes grossly unfair.

              So the services can’t – or the government has decided that it doesn’t make sense to have that type of arrangement.  Accordingly the not-for-profits are allowed to engage in business, they just have to pay tax on it.

    Q.     Does it level the playing field?

    A.          Pretty much.  It’s pretty complicated.  And it’s got a long history of dealings with the IRS through various revenue rulings and all that sort of stuff, but at the end of the day when you boil it down, if you want to run a business in a 501 (c) (3), that’s fine, you just have to pay tax.

              The other thing is that the business can’t consume the 501 (c) (3). In other words, it’s got to be a small part of it.  It can’t be a big huge part of it.

    Q.     Let’s go back through these opinions in a little more detail. Let’s start with, as I understand you to say, Mr. Stair’s taken some income or assets of his organization and used it for his personal benefit; is that correct?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          What type of – what did you review to come up with that conclusion?

    A.      Well, what I’ve basically done is I basically looked at the authority of the organization.  That is – after all, this is just a corporation.  It has a 501 (c) (3) status and it made a determination to be a church on the application.

              The – is there anyway I can draw something on there?

    Q.     Sure.  If you think it would help you in explaining your testimony to the jurors.

    A.      Is that all right?

              MR. UTSEY:                  Your Honor, if he may step down to do that.

              THE COURT:               Certainly.

              MR. UTSEY:                  If anybody can’t see from there, raise your hand.

              THE WITNESS:          There is a –

              CLERK OF COURTS:              Here you go.

              THE WITNESS:          Thank you.  I’m going to draw this before I go through the details because I find it sort of complicated myself.

    BY MR. UTSEY

    Q.     Now, you’re going to have to speak up because you don’t havae that microphone anymore.  Okay?

    A.      This is somewhat complicated so I’m going to draw a graph so I can refer to it.

              But what you have is you have a corporation. Okay.  And that sorporation has bylaws.  And that corporation made a decision.  It filled out a multi-page form called a 501 (c)(3) election.  And that 501 (c)(3) has a multi-page application.  And it has, for the lack of a better word, a lot of rules.

              And on that application on page six there is a block that you check to become a church.  And under that block beside it has some Code Sections, 509 and 170, and there’s a bunch of letters after it about this long (indicating).

              So, you’re a corporation.  You’re a 501 (c)(3). You’re a church. All these little arenas, and they have various and sundry rules.  The next thing that happens is, the IRS gives you a determination letter.

              I cannot spell.  South Carolina gives you a determination.  South Carolina and the IRS give you a determination letter after you have filled out the 501 (c)(3) form.  The IRS thankfully created something called publication 1828.

              I think that’s right.  And Publication 1828 says, here’s all the rules.  I want to bring it down this far, to, like, some 20 page document so we can speak, so most of the population, as opposed to tax attorneys and CPA’s, so we can speak intelligently about the way it works.  So we’ve got a publication that’s called 1828.

    Q.     It helps me if it helps you.

    A.      Your Honor, do you want to see this?

              THE COURT:               I don’t need to see it.  All Right.  You can just keep testifying.

    BY MR. UTSEY:

    Q.     Let’s start filling in the gaps a little bit.  I hand you now Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 9 which is already in evidence.  Is that one of the documents that you’ve reviewed in connection with your testimony?

    A.      Yes. These are the bylaws of a corporation called Faith Cathedral Fellowship, Incorporated.

    Q.     And what use did you make of those bylaws that you referred to on your chart up there?

    A.      Well, just like anyone here who has a corporation, those are the rules.  In other words, if you don’t know, I’ll tell you, but most of you probably know, if you have a corporation and you own 100 percent of the stock, it’s still a separate entity.

              In other words, if you open a corporation to do gardening and you set it up as a legitimate South Carolina corporation and you go out and you do gardening and you do all of this sort of stuff, at the end of the day you can’t write a check to the pest control guy who comes and pays the bill at your house.  You can do it, but you can’t deduct it for tax purpose.  This is distribution to you or it’s wages to you.

              In other words, you just can’t take what’s in a corporation, even if you own 100 percent of it, and just spend it and not pay taxes.  You can spend it, but it comes out of that corporation because that corporation is a living entity.  And most corporations have bylaws.  501 (c)(3)’s pretty much have to have bylaws.

    Q.          Okay.

    A.          Okay.

    Q.     And did you review the bylaws for this corporation?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Is there anything specific about those bylaws that dictates what its purposes are?

    A.      Yes.  The bylaws say a couple of things that are important.  It says, first of all, it says: In no event shall part of the net income of the corporation inure to the benefit of any individual.  It says that three different times.

              And it also says that, attempting to influence legislation  --  wait a minute.  No substantial – No substantial part of the activities of the corporation shall be carrying on of propaganda or otherwise attempting to influence legislation that the corporation shall not participate in or intervene in, including the publishing or distribution of statements of any political campaign on behalf of any candidate for public office.

              And it means none.

    Q.     Now I hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 8 which has already been admitted into evidence which is the Articles of Incorporation of Faith Cathedral Fellowship.  Did you review that document?

    A.      I’m not sure if I’ve seen the articles.  I know I saw the bylaws.

    Q.     Let me hand you Plaintiff’s Exhibit 10 then which is an amendment to the Articles of Incorporation.  Did you review that document?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     And what was important about that document to you?

    A.      It just reinstates all the other, that the bylaws have effect.

    Q.     Does that document refer to IRS section 501 (c)(3)?

    A.      Yes.  It says notwithstanding any other provisions of these articles, this corporation will not carry on any other activities not permitted to carried on by, the letter A., a corporation exempt from federal income tax under 501 (c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

    Q.          Okay.  Now, you mentioned – we’ve gone through the application – excuse me, the bylaws and the articles.  You mentioned an application.  I hand you now Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 16 which is also already into evidence.

              What is that document, Mr. Thomas?            

    A.      This is the actual, I think it’s a six page – yeah, it’s the actual six-page document where you apply for application for recognition of exemption under Section 501 (c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code.

    Q.     And who signed that document?

    A.      Well, the one you handed me doesn’t have a signature page.

    Q.     Is it on the top of the first page?

    A.      Oh, I’m sorry.  It does.  Ralph – R.G. Stair.

    Q.     Now was there anything significant about that document in you analysis?

    A.      Well, this document is very important.  It is, like I said, it’s multi-paged and it’s detailed because, again there are lots of rules that you have to abide by to be a 501 (c)(3).  Under part three it has a question of – the question of, what are or will be the organization’s source of financial support.  And the answer is, freewill offering.  And the next answer is, donations made by both mail – by mail, both solicited and solicited.

    Q.     Did it say anything in there that people would be giving up everything they own –

    A.      No.

    Q.     -- to Mr. Stair?

    A.      No.

    Q.          Okay.  Was there anything else significant about this application?

    A.      Yes.  It – the question three under part three it says, give a narrative description of the activities presently carried on by the organization, and those that will be carried on.

              And the answer is:   Faith Fellowship Cathedral (sic) is a freewill Christian church organized to foster its religious ideals and to spread evangelical principles.  The church carries on religious services both in its main location in Walterboro, South Carolina, as well as organizing and participating in evangelical campaigns and revival.  Faith Fellowship Cathedral (sic) also sponsors radio broadcasts and a free magazine.  In addition, free counseling is offered to those in need.

    Q.     Did it explain in that application to the IRS any other purposes for which it would be using its money?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Now, you talked about the determination letters that you can’t spell but you wrote there as IRS and South Carolina?

    A.          Right.

    Q.     I hand you now Plaintiff’s Exhibit No. 14 and 15, both of which are already in evidence.  What are those documents, Mr. Thomas?

    A.      Well, these are the letters you get back after you file with the IRS and South Carolina, sort of follows suit.  In these letters, there are a couple of things that are important about them.  The first letter it starts off Dear Applicant: Based on the information supplied and assuming your operation will be as stated in your application for recognition of exemption, we have determined you are exempt from federal income taxes under Code Section 501 (c)(3).

              We have further determined that you are not a private foundation within the meaning of Section 509 – A. of the Code because are you an organization described in section  --  in 170 (b) 1 – A – 5.

              If your sources of support or your purposes for charter or other method of operations change, please let us know so we can consider the effect of the change on your exempt status and foundation status. Also you should inform us of all other changes in your name or address and the – I guess the easiest way to put it is, when you become a 501 (c)(3), at the beginning of a 501 (c)(3), the IRS basically tells you, if you told me everything is the truth and you so everything you’re supposed to do, you’ll stay a 501 (c)(3).  If you don’t, you probably won’t stay a 501 (c)(3).

              And then it goes on to say that if you change anything that’s not in this application, let us know because we want to make another determination on whether you would still remain a 501 (c)(3).

    Q.     Let me interrupt you for a minute.  Tell us what the date of that letter is, Mr. Thomas.

    A.      This letter is dated November the 15th, 1979.

    Q.     And you said you reviewed Mr. Stair’s deposition in connection with the work that you did?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Did you review the portion where he said he had no further communications with the IRS concerning the 501 (c)(3) status after this letter?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Was that significant to you?

    A.      Well, I don’t know if significant is right.

              It’s a question of, if you change – in other words, it’s not the IRS’s job to come find you and figure out if you’ve changed something.  It’s your job when you take on the responsibility of being a 501 (c)(3) or being a corporation or being a church to notify them as to whatever changes you made to your organization.

    Q.     Was there any evidence that you found that this organization ever told the IRS about any changes it had made?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Does this notice provision deal with the question of whether the corporation receives income from any type of a business endeavor?

    A.      Yes.  Even back in 1979 the determination letter stated, you are not required to file federal income taxes unless you are subject to tax on unrelated business income under Section 511 of the Code.  If are you subject to this tax, you must file an income tax return on Form 990-T.

    Q.     990 dash T?

    A.      990 dash T as in Tom.

    Q.     Did you review Mr. Stair’s and Mrs. Stair’s depositions and their records to determine whether Faith Fellowship Cathedral has ever filed this form 990-T?

    A.      They have not.  And you asked me – you handed this.

    Q.     I’m about to ask you about that.  What is that letter? That’s exhibit, which one is that?

    A.      15

    Q.     15.  What is that?

    A.      The state basically, in their determination letter, says the same thing.  They say, in the second paragraph, accordingly, you are not required to file income taxes unless you change the character of your organization, the purposes for which you organized or the method of operation.  Any such changes should be reported immediately to the South Carolina Tax Commission, which is what it was back them, in order that their effect upon your exempt status may be determined.

              So the state and federal government are I the same boat here as, you make an application, you make a representation, if you change any of those representation, then you got to let us know because it may change our opinion on whether you remain a 501 (c)(3).

    Q.     Now that we’ve kind of hacked through all of this stuff that you’ve reviewed, tell us what it is if anything – well, you said you had the opinion that Mr. Stair has taken income or assets of the organization for his personal benefit.  What specifically led you to that conclusion?  What evidence did you have of that?

    A.      Well, in 2001 there was an entry made to the books for legal expenses in the amount of $129,972.  And upon looking at the books closer, I saw that the other side of the transaction is where this $129,972 came out of an asset account called Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.  And there is a note in the books that says it was lost in trade.

              So I went back and I researched the account and that account was opened in October, the year before.  And all all of a sudden an entire investment account was lost in trading.  And that’s, quite frankly, a little bit hard to believe.

    Q.     But where, when Mrs. Stair prepared the books that you actually reviewed the financial records, where did she put this loss, under what category?

    A.      She recorded it as a legal expense.

    Q.          Would a loss in trading be a legal expense?

    A.      No.  A loss in trading would not be a legal expense.

    Q.     Now if it were a legal expense, was there any explanation for that legal expense?

    A.          There was no – there was no explanation that I’ve read in the depositions that would say that the church, the corporation, had $129,000 worth of legal expenses.

    Q.     Your Honor, at this time.  I would publish the parties’ stipulation which we marked as Court’s Exhibit No. 2 earlier.  The stipulation or agreement of parties –

              THE COURT:               Yes, sir.  Go ahead.

              MR. UTSEY:                  -- if I may is:  The parties stipulate that Faith Cathedral Fellowship used its funds to pay legal fees to defend criminal charges against R. G. Stair that were unrelated to the operation of the church or any religious purpose.

    Q.     Now, Mr. Thomas, having heard that stipulation, do you have anopinion as to whether the use of the church funds in that fashion was consistent with Section 501 (c)(3) status?

    A.      No, they would – in accounting everything has got to go somewhere, so to speak.  If you have the books and records of a church and they have incurred an expense and it’s not to the benefit of the church, then it’s to the benefit of somebody.  It’s got to go somewhere.

              And this money was paid for legal expenses that went to Mr. Stair or to someone that we’re not sure exactly who they went to, but, they’re not the church’s business.  So, the multitude of issues that you have before you then are, what are they, are they compensation to him.  If they’re compensation to him, just like any of you, if you got income you got to pay taxes on it.

              So they’ve never filed income tax returns, so they didn’t treat it as taxes.  So by process of elimination they were just a dividend that a church can’t pay because the – the thing I told you about up here.  Publication 1828, it speaks about inurement to insiders.

              I’m going to read you a couple paragraphs.  It says, churches and religious organizations like all exempt organizations under IRS Code Section 501 (c)(3), are prohibited from engaging in activities that result in the inurement of the church’s organization’s income or assets to insiders, i. e. persons having a personal or private interest in the activities of the organization.  Insiders can include the minister, the church board, members, officers and in certain circumstances employees.  Examples of prohibited inurements include the payment of dividends, the payment of unreasonable compensation to insiders and the transferring of property to insiders for the fair market value.

              And then it says, the prohibition against inurement to insiders is absolute.  Therefore, any amount of inurement is potentially grounds for loss of tax exempt status.

    Q.     Now, did you undertake to determine whether Mr. Stair reported those legal fees as income on tax returns?

    A.      Well, in their depositions they said they had not filed individual income tax returns.

    Q.     So he didn’t, according to what he said?

    A.          Right.  And Mrs. Stair.

    Q.     Now that $129,972 you were just talking about, was that the only entry that you saw with respect to legal fees that Faith Cathedral Fellowship was paying?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Did you find other legal fees that were paid or other legal-related fees?

    A.      Yes.  In the year 2002, there is an account on the books for legal expenses and they total $340,777.  And the biggest part of that is a $200,000 bond with the Colleton County Sheriff or Clerk of Court.  And then multiple entries to the offices of Joe – is that – how does he pronounce his name?

    Q.     Joe Nathan.

    A.      Joe Nathan Chapel. Okay.  I see it now.  Some $100,000 that was paid to him.  There was also legal fees paid for David Maretti, some $10,000 and legal feed paid for Dennis Bush of $10,000.

    Q.     Were there any other expenses that were paid in connection with those legal matters?

    A.          There are some entries for electronic monitoring systems of some $2,000.

    Q.          What’s the total for the entries on electronic monitoring?  Was that 2,000?

    A.      486, 480, 480, $480.  That’s all I see.

    Q.     In reviewing the financial records, did you find any other instances of Faith Cathedral Fellowship using its income or assets for the benefit of other people?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Explain.

    A.      We did a analysis.  I picked the year of 1999, and did an analysis of the ledger and found, for example, 2600 -- $2,646.80 was paid for the child support of, it is Jeff Steeby?

    Q.     I don’t know how you pronounce it.

    A.      $500 was paid to Scott Rhinehart when he left the community, a thousand more dolloars was paid to Scott Rhinehart when he left the community.  Mike Bruner was paid $3,700 when he left the community.  Orangeburg court was paid $100 for a driving ticket.  A marriage license was paid for $10.  A lady by the name of Lois Anderson, I believe, had her taxes done and the tax preparation, the taxes that she owed were paid out of the corporation’s account.

              The Tennessee Secretary of State was paid $20 for a organization that’s identified as Straightway.

    Q.          What was that for; so you know, or what is it indicated it was for?

    A.      It indicated it was for some sort of filing fee or something.  I can’t remember which state.

    Q.     To the State of Tennessee, I think you said.

    A.      Oh, yes.  Tennessee.  I’m sorry.

    Q.          Okay.

    A.      Then the IRS was paid again $879 for Lois Anderson.  And Timothy Jones, a divorce attorney, was paid $850 for Timothy Jones.  Faith Cathedral Fellowship Canadian Incorporation fee of $700 were paid by this company.  Mike Roland, child support of $2,300 was paid.

              And child support was paid for Phil Halverson to the State of Minnesota, one of the counties in Minnesota for $913.04.  Like I said, we just picked one year to do this because there was a bounty of this in several of the years.

    Q.     Was what you reviewed for 1999 representative of what you saw in other years of the corporation’s financial records?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Now, in your opinion, were those expenditures consistent with the requirements of Section 501 (c)(3) status?

    A.      Well, a church can do things that are charitable but a church paying someone’s taxes, paying someone’s child support, paying those things for people who live in a community, which is the word that they used to describe this, is getting more and more like a deal, for lack of a better word, than it is any type of, I’m the church and I’m giving something that’s charitable. And you’re the person who’s living on this community and you’re giving the church something that charitable.

    Q.     Was Faith Cathedral Fellowship paying things like traffic tickets and tax obligations and child support obligations on behalf of anyone other than the people who were living with Mr. Stair?

    A.      No.

    Q.     Now, how do you know this?

    A.      Mrs. Stair’s deposition.

    Q.     She testified that that was the case?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Okay.  Now, are there any other payments that you saw that would be inconsistent with the requirements of Section 501 (c)(3) status?

    A.      Yes, In September of 2000, the church made a $100 contribution to George Malone who was the sheriff who was a candidate for Sheriff for Colleton County. And while a $100 sounds like , big deal.  Again Publication 1828 says under the Internal Revenue Code all IRS Code Section 501 (c)(3) organizations including churches and religious organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of or in the opposition to any candidate for elective office.  Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position, verbal or written, may be made on behalf of the organization in favor of, or in the opposition to any candidate for any public office, clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity.

    Q.     Now is it – was that contribution also addressed in the bylaws of Faith Cathedral Fellowship?

    A.      Yes, twice.  That they would not – and the reasons the bylaws are like they are is because they have to be in concert with the regulations of 501 (c)(3), so most companies will look at what the regulations are, again, in the 501 (c)(3) and write their bylaws so they comply with the federal law.

    Q.     So the bylaws and the federal law prohibit the campaign donations; is that what you’re saying?

    A.          Right.  The publication 1828 ways that they are absolutely prohibited.

    Q.     Now, was there anything else that you saw in your review of the information that you had including the financial records of Faith Cathedral Fellowship that showed you that this corporation’s financial dealing were in any way inconsistent with the IRS determination letter and the State of South Carolina’s determination letter that it was a tax-exempt charitable or non profit organization?

    A.          Other than looking at their testimony.

    Q.          Right.

    A.      The Stair’s testimony.

    Q.     But other than the fact that Mr. Stair, as you related, has taken income or assets for his personal benefit, and that he has used those income and assets for the personal benefit of others, is there any other things that you saw in the financial records and in your analysis that would have been contrary to the requirements applicable to Faith Cathedral Fellowship pursuant to that determination letter of the IRS and of the State of South Carolina?

    A.      Yes.  There is an account that’s on the books.  And I have taken the years 2005 and 2006.  And in 2006, it was $109,433.73 recorded on the books as a contribution or a, yeah contribution.  And it was derived by people who lived in the community going out and doing construction jobs, plumbing jobs, electrical jobs.  And the moneys were not paid to them in wages.  They were paid to the corporation as a contribution.

              And in 2005 it was $63,372.60.

              And this is a – this is sort of two-headed animal.  This first is, the people who are doing the work cannot go out and do this work and not pay taxes on it.  They have to pay income taxes.  They have to pay Social Security, just like me and you.

              And as I’ve been reminded when I was working on federal cases for sentencing for income tax evasion, even the judge there pays income taxes.  So, they can’t just go out and hold themselves out as I’m working for the church, pay the church.

              The second part of it is, the construction work contribution is clearly income that is subject to UBIT which is unrelated business income, which the church could have a business where it went out and did all of that, it would just have to pay income taxes on it.

    Q.     You made reference to UBIT.  Was that in that IRS determination letter?

    A.      Yes, it said – even in ’79 it says, if you go out and do something, you have to pay taxes on unrelated business income.

    Q.     And I may, I asked you specifically about a Form 99 zero dash T. earlier.  Is that same as UBIT that we’re talking about?

    A.          Right.  There’s the Form 990 that some 501 (c)(3)’s have to file.  They have to file income tax returns whether it’s informational returns to just show this is how much money we took in, and here’s how much we paid our directors and all of that.  There’s really no taxable income.

              But a 990-T is a form that has to be filed even if you don’t have to file a 990 which simply says, I’m running a business, I got to pay on the business I’m running.

    Q          Despite all of this construction work and other income that you saw on books, did you determine whether Faith Cathedral Fellowship ever filed those required federal returns?

    A.      Well, again, in their deposition they said that they had not filed any returns, that they didn’t have to file any returns, they were a 501 (c)(3) and they didn’t have to file income tax returns.

    Q.     Now, do the federal – or do the IRS regulations and guides provide guidance and factors for determining whether some, an operation qualifies as a church or a religious organization?

    A.      Yes.  It’s part of 1828.

    Q.          What does IRS Publication 1828 state with respect to the factor that the federal government considers to determine whether a corporation is in fact considered to be a church or a religious organization?

    A.      Well, the easiest way is for me to read from a summary out of the Journal of Accountancy and it says that the – however, IRS Publication 1828, Tax Guide for Churches and Religious Organization, lists 14 criteria that the IRS considers important in deciding whether an organization qualifies.

              They are: A distinct legal existence; a recognized creed or form of worship; a definite and distinct ecclesiastical – hope I got that right – government; a formal code of doctrine and discipline; a distinct religious history; a membership not associated with any other church or denomination; an organization of ordained ministers; ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies; a literature of its own; established places of worship’ regular congregations’ regular worship services; schools for the religious instruction of the young; schools for the preparation of ministers.

    Q.     Now, Mr. Thomas, in your review of all of this information with respect to Faith Cathedral Fellowship, have you reached an opinion to a reasonable degree of forensic accounting certainty as to whether Faith Cathedral Fellowship is engaged in trade or commerce within the State of South Carolina?

    A.      Well, there’s no doubt, by their own admission, they’re in the construction business.  They are in the electrical business.  They have a person out there who lives within the community and he goes out and he solicits jobs.  He gets job, and gets them with various corporations, various hotels, and they perform those services.

    Q.     So, is Faith Cathedral Fellowship engaged in trade or commerce in the State of South Carolina?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     Now, Mr. Thomas, finally, did I ask you to look at the financial dealings or financial status rather of Faith Cathedral Fellowship to determine its ability to pay in award of punitive damages if that were awarded by a jury?

    A.      Yes, you did.

    Q.     And what did you determine with respect to Faith Cathedral Fellowship’s financial ability to respond to any award of punitive damages that might be returned against it?

    A.      Well, I looked at the most current records we have from the standpoint of the balance sheet which shows the cash accounts.  And on March 23rd of 2007, there was $982,154.89 of cash on hand with literally no liabilities.

    Q.     It would at least have that much money to respond to an award of punitive damages if that were returned?

    A.      On March 23rd; yes.

              MR. UTSEY:                  Thank you, Mr. Thomas.  Please answer any questions opposing counsel may have.

              THE COURT:               Cross – Examination.

    CROSS – EXAMINATION

    BY MR. CHAPLIN:

    Q.     I know the hour is late.  I’ll try to be brief.

              The testimony that you just gave, what records did you base that on? 

     A.     Do you want me to read through it again?

    Q.     No. Just, where did you get records from?

    A.      I got an electronic file of the books from your client, and I got .pdf spreadsheets from your client.

    Q.          Okay.  So these are the records that Faith Cathedral maintains?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     And the information you testified to was clearly written in black-and-white as far as the accounts and what the money was spent for and things on that order?

    A.      They were books and records; yes.

    Q.     Did you see any attempt to hide the information or not accurately document what they were spending the money for? Could you tell that from the records?

    A.      No. The only thing I found to be odd is that investment account disappeared.

    Q.     So these are their records that you went through that they freely gave in discovery and you reviewed them and this is your testimony based on your review of those records?

    A.      I have no idea if they were freely gave (sic). I had access to them about three weeks ago.

    Q.     But, anyway, you received them from my client?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     I notice that when you were going through the different expenditures that the church made to assist people, you didn’t mention Tim Butler.

    A.      No, I didn’t.

    Q.     How may churches have you analyzed the books for in the past three years?

    A.          Churches?

    Q.     Yes.

    A.          None.

    Q.     How about in the past five years?

    A.          None.

    Q.     How about your career?

    A.      I have not examined the books of churches.  I’ve examined the books of several companies.

    Q.          Okay.  All right.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          No further questions.

              THE COURT:               Redirect.

    BY MR. UTSEY:

    Q.     You were asked a question about Mr. Butler. Do you know what transaction he’s referring to of Mr. Butler?

    A.      Well, Mr. Butler’s activity is, for the lack of a better work, it’s a co-mingled mess.  The – let me see.  I’m just trying to start from the beginning and go through it as best I recall the facts.

              Mr. Butler was someone who owned a truck, a tractor—trailer.  And he had some back taxes with the IRS and the State of Ohio.  And Mr. Butler started driving the truck and giving money to the corporation.  The corporation kept his money in an account and when they got a certain sum of money and worked out – someone in the organization had worked out a deal with the IRS and the Department of – I mean, the Department of Taxation with the State of Ohio.  They then took the money that Mr. Butler had received then as contributions and gave it to the IRS and the State of Ohio.

              So his was –

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Objection, Your Honor.  The testimony is clearly hearsay.  I mean, I’m not sure what it’s based on.

              THE WITNESS:          The deposition of Mr. Stair –

              THE COURT:               All right.  Overruled.  He can –

              THE WITNESS:          -- and the records –

              THE COURT:               -- testify to that.

              THE WITNESS:          -- reflect that money went into an account, I think it was called saving – Naomi.  And that money, you see deposits going into that account.  And then you see checks coming out, going to the IRS.

              So, like I said, the money from Mr. Butler’s trucking operation was put in as a contribution, goes out as a expense account for Mr. Butler which, you know, not an expense for the church.

    Q.     The amount of money that was paid over by Faith Cathedral Fellowship to the IRS and the State of Ohio, did that amount of money exceed the amount of money that Mr. Butler has already given to Faith Cathedral Fellowship to pay them off?

    A.      We did an analysis.  It seems like Mr. Butler – I’ve got a file back there if you want me to get it, but seems like Mr. Butler has some 50 – or 60,000 more that he put into the corporation than he got out of the corporation.

              MR. UTSEY:                  Thank you.  I don’t have any other questions.

              MR CHAPLIN:          I’ll try to be brief.

    RECROSS-EXAMINATION

    BY MR, CHAPLIN:

    Q.     Is Mr. Butler sitting in the courtroom today?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Could you identify him?

    A.      Yes. He’s right there with that string tie on.

    Q.          Excuss me.  So he is one of the Plaintiffs?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.          Thank you. I just wanted to clarify that for the jury.

              During the time that Mr. Butler, as you said, drove and money was deposited into accounts, whatever the case might be, did Mr. Butler deposit all of his earnings into that account or did he save money for rent and food and clothing?

    A.      I have no idea.

    Q.     So you don’t know?

    A.      I know what was on the books.  I didn’t talk to Mr. Butler about what was not on the books, other than the corporate books.  I didn’t look at his personal records.

    Q.          Okay.  So it’s your understanding of your records – of the records that Mr. Butler gave the money to Faith Cathedral and then Faith Cathedral paid the bill?

    A.      Mr. Butler drove his truck, generated revenues, those revenues went into the corporation’s account.  Expenses came out of the corporation’s checking account for the IRS, for tires, for insurance, for various things for a truck that was being run, for lack of a better word, through the books and records of the corporation.

    Q.     And what was the total IRS bill that Mr. Butler has; do you know?

    A.      Well, the total bill?

    Q.          What was the total bill?

    A.      The amount paid was some – well, it’s hard to say because there’s an $11,000 entry and then it seems like there was some eight – or $900 entries that were made.  So let’s say much more than $10,000 was paid to the IRS.

    Q.     Let me make sure I understand.  These are fore delinquent or back taxes?

              MR. UTSEY:                  Your Honor, I think this is beyond the scope of Recross at this point.

              THE COURT:               Overruled.  I’ll let him answer.

              THE WITNESS:          I don’t know.

    BY MR. CHAPLIN:

    Q.     It was paid to the IRS?

    A.      Yes.

    Q.     But you don’t –

    A.      I don’t know if there was a – I don’t know if he had delinquent taxes personally.  I don’t know if he had back taxes from a business.  I don’t know if he didn’t pay excise taxes on the truck.  I don’t know what year they were.  I don’t know any of that.

    Q.     But this is for back taxes?

    A.      Based upon Mr. Stair’s deposition that I read, that’s what it said, right.  The records didn’t reflect – in other words, there wasn’t any entry in the records that said this is for back taxes.

    Q.          Have you spoken to Mr. Butler about this matter at all?

    A.      No.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Thank you.  No further questions.

              THE COURT:               All right.  Mr. Thomas, thank you very much, sir.

     

     




    NAME:: SC Court

    FROM:: Motion

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA                                    CIRCUIT COURT

    COUNTY OF COLLETON                                             2004-CP-15-382

                                                                                 VOLUME 1

     

    GLENDON ALLABY, KATHRYN ALLABY,

    CORA PFUND, ERIC PFUND, GREG LINDSEY,

    LARRY HARTLEY, MICHAEL DUVAL,

    KATHLEEN, DUVUAL, PEARL BUTLER, TIMOTHY

    BUTLER, and KEVIN NEVIN

                            PLAINTIFF

     

    VS

     

    R. G. STAIR, and FAITH CATHEDRAL

    FELLOWSHIP, INC. a / k / a  OVERCOMER

    MINISTRIES,

                            DEFENDANT

     

     

    MOTIONS                                                                   VOLUME 1 PAGE 74 LINE 17

     THROUGH

                                                                                        VOLUME 1 PAGE 94 LINE 11

     

     

     

    THE COURT:               Now, regarding this Internal Revenue Service issue, I think we’re going to go ahead and break for lunch.  I want you to think about a couple things during the lunch break.

              I guess it occurred to me that – first of all, the motion to dismiss was made regarding the subject matter jurisdiction of this Court and that there were ecclesiastical aspects of the case that would deprive this Court of subject matter jurisdiction which has been denied.

              But there has also been statements in pretrial briefs and we were in chambers regarding the 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) status of Faith Cathedral Fellowship, Inc., and I know there’s been talk about the Internal Revenue Service and whether certain rules of the Internal Revenue Service have been met or complied with.

              I guess my concern about that is, first of all, we don’t have charitable immunity anymore in this state and whether or not a 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) corporation is entitled to the protections under the Tort Claims Act seems to be governed solely by their status. I think there’s a case out of Hilton Head that says that.

              And you can’t really go behind that. And so I’m wondering why we need to, first of all, burden the jury with issues related to whether these are 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) issues, and what that has to do, what relevance that has to the causes of action.

              I mean, that seems to be a legal matter for the Court if at all relevant in light of the fact that that ruling out of the Hilton Head case says that there is a Tort Claims Act like immunity regarding the limits of damages. And so I don’t, I’m-- I guess I’m curious as to what impact that has on the proof, but on the causes of action if it’s the causes of action – that’s what I want to hear about when we get back from lunch.

    MR. UTSEY:                  I can discuss it now or we can talk about it when we get back.

    THE COURT:               Yeah, when we get back, I’ll talk about that.

    MR. UTSEY:                  Judge, I want to point out one thing before you go too far down the wrong road. There hasn’t been any affirmative defense or allegation raised by the Defendant that it has charitable immunity. That’s not an issue in this case.

    THE COURT:               All right.    I understand.

    MR. UTSEY:                  That’s not at issue.

    THE COURT:               All right.  And then the second thing I wanted to get y’all to talk about with your clients and pursue perhaps before we get into the case, but I saw there was some settlement discussions but I don’t believe y’all mediated the case. Has there been any mediation or efforts to settlement?

    MR. UTSEY:                  No, sir.

    THE COURT:               I’ll be glad to do anything I can to help y’all, if you think there’s any potential for resolving it. I’m not going to push myself on you or try to strong arm a settlement. But if you feel like I can be of any assistance, I’ll be glad to try to do that if you feel like there’s some potential for resolving the case.  But I just offer that to you.  All right.

              So we’ll be back at two o’clock.  All right.

    MR. CHAPLIN:          Thank you, Your Honor.

    THE COURT:               Thank you very much.

    (At 1:16 p.m. the luncheon recess was taken.  At 2:15 p.m., the trial resumed as follows: )

    THE COURT:               Before the jury comes in, I know we were talking about, Mr. Chaplin, you had a matter about the Internal Revenue Service.  As you mentioned in chambers it was, again, I think a jurisdictional argument; is that correct, sir?

    MR. CHAPLIN:          That is correct.

    THE COURT:               Okay.  Yes, sir.  Go ahead.

    MR. CHAPLIN:          Your Honor, to reiterate what we discussed, my concern is that a great deal of the testimony that Plaintiff’s alleging to put forth particularly deal with whether or not Faith Cathedral Fellowship qualifies or complies with the guidelines which are federal guidelines for a 501 ( c ) ( 3 ).

    THE COURT:               Okay.

    MR. CHAPLIN:          My understanding is that if the IRS were to take issue with that or whatever, I think if they were here questioning that, maybe that would be the case but we’re in a state court. We’re talking about a federal guideline and I have a concern regarding jurisdiction, again, pertaining to the information that they want to put forth, is that this is not a church sanctioned by the IRS.

              However, they have not one shred of proof. In fact, I think they have proof to the contrary that the IRS has examined this facility and has exempted it based on a 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) status.

              Now the issues that they’re attempting to raise are more like scare tactics to say, well, you know, we’re going to let them know about this, we’re going to let them know about that, maybe you’re not in compliance here.

              But I think that’s the IRS’s job to come in, do an audit, if they choose, through the proper arena, but I don’t think it’s proper for this court nor is it relevant to anything that’s been alleged in the Plaintiff’s complaint.

              It doesn’t say that – it doesn’t say – I don’t think it says anything in regard to IRS.  And if I’m misspeaking, I would suggest that it’s very little. At the same rate, this is not a case about whether or not Faith Cathedral has complied, is in compliance with the 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) statute written by the federal government.

              It’s a case about some people that were member of this church, became disgruntled, left, and now they want their money back.

              Talking about the IRS is totally off to the left.  I think that I would just preserve the record.  I would have to object of any mentioning to that whatsoever.  Nor is it necessary for Plaintiffs to prove their case.

              Thank you, Your Honor.

    THE COURT:               Yes, sir.

    MR. UTSEY:                  Thank you, Your Honor. Our case is, in a nutshell, my folks gave money to what was represented to be a charitable organization.  When they learned it was not a charitable organization, they asked for their money back.  They weren’t given all of their money back.  We’re here today to get their money back because they were induced by misrepresentation to give money to this organization which is not a charitable organization.

              The reason all of this becomes relevant is because Defendant holds itself out as a charitable organization as sanctioned by Section 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) of the IRS Code.

              I’ll quote to you, if I may, from the amendments to the Articles of Incorporation that this company filed with the Secretary of State for South Carolina, not with the federal government, the Secretary of State of South Carolina, Articles of Incorporation.  This corporation will not carry on any other activities not permitted to be carried on by a corporation exempt from federal income tax under Section 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954 or corresponding provision of  any future United States Internal Revenue Law.

              They have postured themselves, they have represented themselves to the government, to my clients, as a charitable organization under this specific code section. They applied to the IRS for this 501 (c)(3) status.  The letter they received from the IRS says that as long as you do everything the way you’ve represented in your application, which we’ve got as the Exhibit 2, then you enjoy this status, but it’s conditioned on continuing to do that.  They haven’t done that.

              That’s our case. To help demonstrate that this is not in fact a charitable organization as they represent, we’ve got every right in our case to go into that evidence and to prove it. I’m not sure what the motion is before the Court here.

              This is not a prosecution for tax evasion.  This is not an IRS – we’re not acting as a private attorney general.  It’s not an IRS action. It is simply a matter in controversy as to whether this is a charity.  And the definition what is charity as picked by Faith Cathedral Fellowship is whether they satisfy 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) .

              So they can’t create the rules and say, we’re a charity because we meet 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) but then somehow preempt us from challenging whether they have complied with Rule 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) when we come into court to say that you’re not a charity, because there’s a myriad of reasons that they have not complied with that status, or, for that matter, with their own bylaws and articles of incorporation.

    MR. CHAPLIN:          Thank you, Your Honor. Your Honor, we’re interchanging terms here.  The issue before the Court that I believe is whether or not, I think Plaintiffs have suggested already, that this is not a church.

              This is a church and it’s covered and approved by the federal government based on the guidelines of the 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) statute. That’s not a question for this Court.

              The issue that the Plaintiffs are trying to allege is that this is not a church and based on that they should get their money back. I think it’s some variation of that.  It keeps changing.

              At the same rate, I’m simply saying that this is a federal statute, it’s a federal guideline. Whether or not this is a church is not a question for this Court. I don’t think any court can determine whether or not this is a church, But it’s to determine whether or it’s in compliance with federal guideline 501 ( c ) ( 3 ).  That would be a federal question and I believe that proper arena would be the District Court.

              Again, let’s look at the probative value and the necessity for the Plaintiffs to bring this forward.  It’s not necessary for them to go into this for them to bring their case.  They didn’t plead it.  They didn’t allege it.  It’s not an element of any of the causes of action that they brought.

              And I think that it’s irrelevant.  And – because all of the issues that they raised in their complaint have to do with how Reverend Stair and his behavior and the fact that he needed to use money from the church for legal fees.  I mean, that has been this case from day one.

              To suggest now that it’s an issue with regards to the 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) status and whether or not it’s in compliance, I see no evidence of that in any of the pleadings.  Again, Your Honor, simply to preserve the issue, I must object to any discussion regarding their compliance with this federal statute.

              Now I’m sure that there may be something we can stipulate to with regards to this matter, but to go into a whole lot of testimony regarding that, I would have to object.

    MR. UTSEY:                  Your Honor, as you know, state court judges all the time apply federal standards to state court issues.  And without conceding, let’s assume for a minute that Mr. Chaplin is correct, that any discussion of IRS code sections and applicable provisions creates a federal question.

              I know from your background you’ve had experience working in the federal courts and you know that there is a basis for them to have sought to remove this case to federal courts based on federal question jurisdiction, if that was their position.  They didn’t do so.

              Nevertheless, that does not deprive the state courts jurisdiction over this core dispute as to which federal standards are applicable. No different than if you had a products liability case and we were in here talking about NHTSA standards that might be applicable to the manufacture of an automobile or any other number of – clean air and water standards.  Trucking cases all the time have federal regulations that apply to the manner in which trucking lines operate their trucks and drivers operate their trucks.

              All of those things are governed by federal standards.  And it doesn’t deprive the state court jurisdiction over the core dispute.  What’s been alleged here are State Court causes of action. The state court causes of action simply say they represented themselves as a religious charity and based on their representations my clients gave them money.

              Those were misrepresentations because they’re not a charity.  They’re not a religious charity.  The definition of a religious charity as they picked in their own corporate documents is that they do it consistent with what the IRS Code provides.

              And so to prove our case, we have every right to say they misrepresented that.  If we can’t prove it, we can’t prove it.  But I think to grant him what is in essence a blanket motion in limine at this point would be inappropriate.

              Mr. Chaplin hasn’t taken the deposition of our forensic accountant, doesn’t even know what he’s going to say other than what I’ve told him he’s likely to say on the witness stand.  So I think it would be inappropriate to exclude all of that evidence now just based on some argument that he’s made.

    THE COURT:               Thank you, sir.  Okay.   Well, I don’t see any basis for any lack of jurisdiction on the Circuit Court of Common Pleas.  And so I respectfully deny your motion to dismiss related to that or under jurisdictional basis.

              As I understand the complaint and I notice there are counterclaims.  Are they still – are you still seeking – are your counterclaims –

              MR. CHAPLIN:          I think, I think some of them premature.  I think some are dismissed.

              MR. UTSEY:                  We dismissed all those without prejudice by agreement.

              THE COURT:               Okay.   Yeah.  I come in on Monday and see the file for the first time, so I appreciate y’all helping me out on that.  But –

              MR. CHAPLIN:  Your Honor.

              THE COURT:               Yes, Sir.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          I hate to interrupt, Your Honor.  Your Honor, is there some way that we can stipulate to some of that information?  Is it possible that we could at least limit the amount of time we spend in this trial regarding, you know, the federal court – the IRS and the federal government?

              I mean, it seems like if it – if that were the issue we’d be in an IRS audit or in a hearing or whatever the case might be.  We’re already stipulated that money was spent for legal fees.  That tends to be the gist of the argument was that – they’re saying that’s not a Christian purpose.

              Let’s call our first witness. I mean, why do we need to go into all of this other stuff that I believe is not germane?

              THE COURT:               Well, let me make sure I understand.  You’re seeking some kind of motion in limine to limit the evidence the Plaintiff presents as to whether or not the church complies with the IRS 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) status; is that – am I understanding your argument?

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Yes, Sir.  I mean, we’ve been preparing to argue this case with regards to – I mean, quite frankly, if you become disillusioned with a church based on how it’s operated, can you get your money back.  That’s been the theme of this case from day one.

              Now, to turn it into something as to whether or not Faith Cathedral Fellowship is in compliance with the federal government, that’s not the case.

              THE COURT:               Let me – hold your thought right there, and let me make sure I understand.  As I understand from the pretrial brief, the pleadings currently contain, as far as the Plaintiff’s allegations, fraud, breach of fiduciary duty, conversion, unfair trade practices, negligent misrepresentation.  What else?

              MR. UTSEY:                  Outrage in some cases, Your Honor.

              THE COURT:               Okay.  Outrage.  Is that all your causes of action?

              MR. UTSEY:                  Yes, sir.

              THE COURT:               You’ve answered timely –

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Yes.

              THE COURT:               -- and asserted general denial.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Yes.

              THE COURT:               So I guess in light of Mr. Chaplin’s motion, what, what is the probative value of the 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) evidence?  And I heard you say earlier, from what I’ve read in the pretrial briefs, part of your theory, Mr. Utsey, is funds were solicited and obtained based on it being a church that complied with 501 ( c) ( 3 ).  In Fact, it did not, and therefore there’s been fraud, breach of fiduciary duty and other violations of common law.

              MR. UTSEY:                  It goes like this.  Let me first say. Your familiar with the straw man approach to an argument; aren’t you? Where you set up a straw man and knock it down instead of knocking down your opponent’s argument?  That’s kind of what Mr. Chaplin’s done when he keeps characterizing what we’re –

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Your Honor, I object to that.

              MR. UTSEY:                  So I would, let me tell you what we’re saying.

              THE COURT:               I know what you’re saying.

              MR. UTSEY:                  Our core case isn’t what Mr. Chaplin says it is.  I think he misapprehends our case.  And he hasn’t taken the deposition of our accountant so he doesn’t know what he’s going to say.

              But our case is simply this:  They represented to us; we are a religious charity, give us money and it will be used for religious charitable purposes.  And we gave them money.

              THE COURT:               Okay.

              MR. UTSEY:                  What we’re going to prove here is that it’s neither religious nor a charity.  It has some religious components to it, but it is not a religious charity within the scope of the IRS.  That’s what defines what a charity is.

              They know that.  They had to submit all of this to the state and federal government to obtain that kind of a designation and rely on it.  And so to prove that they’re not in fact charitable – this, as you’ll see as the evidence comes through, and a lot of this we haven’t been able to develop in detail until last week or so because that’s when we finally got the evidence they were supposed to have given us in 2004.

              But what you’ll see is that this money is co-mingled and it’s used in essence as a slush find at the personal direction of Ralph Stair.  It’s used for a number purposes, totally unrelated to any religious purpose, a number of things totally unrelated to any charitable purpose.  They derive income totally unrelated to donations or typical donations or gifts that are seen in a religious context.  There’s all kind of income coming in.

              That’s all important because it goes back to what they represented to the state and the federal government and to my clients in order to be able to call themselves a church and to call themselves a charity for nonprofit.  That’s the only reason they’re out there today soliciting funds on that basis.

              They wouldn’t be doing this if they hadn’t made those representations.  They’ve made the representations and we’re going to show that they’re misrepresentations.  It’s just that simple.

              THE COURT:               All right.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          Your Honor, just very briefly.

              Your Honor, where we’re headed here is unchartered ground because what we’re trying to do is we’re trying to determine whether a court can decide how a church spends its money.

              Some churches buy a car.  Some churches buy a home.  Some churches live lavishly and take care of – we’re talking about a decision that a board made of a church to spend money in a certain way.

              Now ifthat’s not in compliance with the federal government, then I think that a group or a body from the IRS needs to make that decision.

              I do not believe that, again, that this is appropriate for us to sit here and determine whether or not the way Faith Cathedral spends its money is appropriate.  That means that every church in this country can now be brought into a court and asked the question, are you spending your money appropriately.

              And I think that it’s clear, it’s a separation between church and state.  How they choose to spend their money is their decision.  And I think that’s why, whether or not a church is qualified under 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) is not a state decision, it’s a federal decision.

              And I am not trying to fly in the face of this Court and say that Your Honor couldn’t make this decision because I know you could.  At the same rate, I’m asking that – I don’t think that this question has ever been brought up before in a circuit court.  I don’t even think in a trail of this nature has ever even met a jury, whether or not you can get your money back when you become disgruntled with your church.

              And then you examine how the money is spent.  If you took the ministries of Creflo Dollar or Joyce Meyer or whatever the case might be, it’s hands off.  You can’t examine it.  And I suggest that the church has the right to decide how they want to spend their money.  And the money – the decision was not made by Ralph Stair, it was made by the board of the church.

              If they choose to buy hay, if they choose to buy milk, gas, whatever the case might be, that’s a decision that the church made.  So to say that that’s not appropriate, or to determine that it’s not in compliance with 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) I think that that’s something that the IRS should handle.

              Thank You.

              THE COURT:               Thank you, sir.

    MR. UTSEY:                  That argument begs the question, Your Honor.  It keeps dodging the core question which is we’re saying just because they say they’re a church and just because they say they’re a religious organization doesn’t mean it’s so.

    And I understand they’re saying that. And if the jury believers they’re a church or a religious organization, my folks aren’t going to get their money back.  But what we’re going to show is they’re not.  And, we got a right to try that issue.  We got a right to try whether they have misrepresented this to us.

    I couldn’t walk out on the street and panhandle from somebody on the basis that I’m the church of Skip Utsey and tell them I’m a church.  And then when they find out that I’m not, I couldn’t defend any claim for reimbursement by saying, hell, I say I’m a church so you don’t get your money back.

    It goes back to the core question of, are you in fact this charity that you claim that you are, and did you use the money consistent with the way you represented you were going to use it.  Plainly and simply, whether this was a church or anything else.  That’s the core question.

    If you tell us this is what you are and this is what you’re going to do and you’re not, then you’ve misrepresented and we relied on that misrepresentation.  That was the inducement for us to give you the money.

    That’s what this case is.

    THE COURT:               I understand your argument, Mr. Utsey.

    I guess what I was worried about, and you know, when you’re a hammer everything look like a nail.  I’m worried about the verdict form.  What in the world is the jury going to be deciding when it comes to the issue of whether or not they are 501 ( c ) ( 3 ) .  That’s what I’m trying to get my arms around.

    MR. UTSEY:                  That’s not going to be in the verdict form.  The question is this:  Will they jury find that these representations or misrepresentations of the Defendant were sufficient to give my clients a right to recovery –

    THE COURT:               Okay.

    MR. UTSEY:                  -- under negligent misrepresentation or fraud.  And did the Defendants be representing this create a fiduciary duty and/or other obligation to my client to use the money consistent with the purposes for which it was donated, and if so did they breach that.

    That’s where it all comes into play.

    THE COURT:               All right.  I understand.  Mr. Chaplin, anything further?

    MR. CHAPLIN:          Your Honor, I guess the only other comment I would make, Mr. Utsey said something about panhandling or whatever.  Everybody knows that anybody and his brother can go out to Jeffreys Boulevard with a bucket and call them self any church that you want and somebody could give them money at a red light.

    You don’t get the money back when you find out that the person is not representing the church that they suggest they are.

    You have a duty to investigate to determine how you want to spend your money.  If it’s a gift, you donate it or whatever the case might be.  Your Honor, that’s the case we’re talking about.

    THE COURT:               Okay.

    MR. CHAPLIN:          We’re not talking about – we’re not here to determine whether or not Faith Cathedral is a church.  We’re here to determine whether or not funds were used in a Christian-like or, you know, consistent with what they believed they gave them for.  Because what are we saying –

    THE COURT:               I understand what you’re saying.

              MR. CHAPLIN:          I mean, that’s too broad.  And I don’t think – I don’t think that we need to make it that broad in order to solve this case.

              And I think you’re right.  I think at the end of it we’re going to end up with an issue of – and I actually like the question because I think that everybody knows that you’re a church, and you don’t have to have a 501 (c)(3) status to be a church.

              So, I mean, maybe – I guess what I’m saying is that that’s why I don’t know why we’re talking about 501 (c)(3).

              THE COURT:          Yeah.  I understand where you’re coming from.  And I respectfully deny your motion in limine.  I think the Plaintiffs are entitled to go into it, would be relevant and, you know, what the intent of the parties, that can be brought out by either side.

     

     




    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Naomi Candle

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      To all those saying I have nothing to do but harass Mr. stair.  true, I do have lots of time as my physician has given me disability until I can fully recover from that traumatic tour of the sex farm compound Mr. stair runs. I am at 90% as of now.
     Lets see now, Naomi states for me not to email her anymore. First of all, it was Mr. Stair whom reproved and rebuked the dining hall people for not going up to Naomi and encouraging her and blessing her baby daughter.  And so, I decided to send her an email, as per Mr. Stair's demand.
     

      Now, I was also helping with Naomi's website and I commented on how it would be nice for me to have a candle.
     

      Well, after I was kicked out of the sex farm, Naomi sends me an email asking me to buy one of her stupid candles and I told her I could not right now as the condition of my vehicles were run down, not road worthy, and it would take 2,000.00 to get them back to the way they were when I moved down to the sex farm. 

      By the way, Tom Nuss wanted to junk my van because he couldn't figure out what was wrong with it.  It was simply the alternator Tom.
     

      And so, Naomi, stop emailing ME asking to buy your stupid candles.  I do have a copy of your email if you wish me to post it.

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: I Since Repented

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      Ok, now I understand why Timothy Jones is a yes man to ralph. Because Timothy will agree with ralph even when he knows it is a lie.  I hate liars and that is why brother Will was kicked out of the sex farm because he would not lie for ralph. 

    I would lie for ralph anytime he came to me for a witness.
     

    I remember sister Lois Anderson was appalled when ralph said her son Jeff called and asked for a plane ticket to come see his mom, which was not true.  ralph ordered me to call Jeff and buy him a ticket to come see his mom.  I would always say to Lois, you have to cover him, even if you have to lie about it and she said, "I cannot lie". 

    I have since repented and will never lie for Mr. stair again.
     

    ralph should begin bringing up his own sins and repent like Timothy.  But, I really don't believe Mr. stair knows how to repent.  Be warned "brother stair" is a big fat liar.

     

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Tim and Sandy Jones

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    I talked to Romeo (Josh was out and about at the time of my call) and was 

    wondering how I was and telling me about his MOM. Well ralph had tried to put 

    his hands on Sandy and she was telling Timothy she was leaving

     

    Romeo thought sure they would have had enough sense to go from that place  but 

    never did. This is due to the polished behavior that Timothy can exhibit that he 

    was able to convince his wife ralph had repented/turning over a new leaf etc....

     

    You see Timothy comes off sounding like such a smooth talking powerful man of 

    God but he can not obey the scriptures, so therefore he honors God in word for 

    now. We all fall short of some commands I guess, written in the Bible.

     

    Timothy wears a political smile and is verbally very quiet, but under his breath 

    way down  deep, Timothy follows only what Timothy thinks with ralph as his still 

    small voice.

     

    Scripture commands us not to set down to eat with a brother who is a fornicator or

    many other wicked things that someone calling themselves a brother might do.

    If a man can not obey simple commands like this one he is certainly not a leader,

    rather only a novice.

     

    Further, the way Timothy and the other ralph commune leaders treat families upon

    exiting the farm also shows that they do not have the spirit of God. If they had the

    operation of God's spirit, they would never help run entire groups of people off

    ralph's land without some proof or witness that the souls were practicing evil and

    had repeatedly been given chances to reform.

     

    If they were to follow this Biblical format they would have to throw ralph out

    instead, so they follow another spiritual format you see.

     

    This spirit on the farm is another spirit that they follow under the powerful dark

    Lords living and working through ralph stair.

     

    All we can do is pray that they want to be free to find the true spirit of God.

     

     

     

    NAME:: Thomas R Belford

    FROM:: Erased By Jesus

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     You see pastor Timothy had repented to GOD for what he had done to his Daughter and God forgave him. Then he made the mistake of telling Stair what he had done. Stair brings up what was erased by Jesus for control of the Brethren

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: ralph's Zipper

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Hi Samuel

      you have to understand first of all that this is Righteous Indignation.  Do you know? You rebuked brother stair when you left the sex farm?  And it is all our responsibility to rebuke brother stair.  I’m not going to close my eyes to his sexual deviance.  You yourself caught ralph coming out of the woman's bathroom pulling up his zipper, boy did you ever get beat up ever since that observation.

    Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

    Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear [thee, then] take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
    Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell [it] unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
     

      Samuel, it is my duty to expose brother stair in hopes he may repent. Why don't you want to help him? I never said he is damned, Samuel.  In fact, brother stair said to us all in the dining hall almost every single day, "go to hell, all of you" and "God, damn this house!". I know you skipped out of the dining hall most of the time Samuel and you probably did not hear ralph say that to us.
     

    I know ralph and his men are reading this, and I hope they repent.
     

      My main concern is to warn other unsuspecting people.  I wish to almighty God I would have read "The Net Team" and listened to Daniel DeMeyer, but brother stair said it is all lies up on the Internet.  Maybe some of it is, but I would have gotten the point and stayed away from brother stair.
     

      As for Timothy, I have seen him lie for brother stair countless times, up till the day I was kicked out. Forgive timothy? Sure I do, but I could not stay there and watch him lie anymore, I’m glad ralph kicked me out of that sex farm.
     

      I hope this testimony could spare just one unsuspecting proselyte.

     




    NAME:: Thomas R Belford

    FROM:: Fear of ralph Damning

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     I was there the day Ralph told of pastor timothy's molesting of his daughter in the dinning hall before all.
    Ralph used it for control of timothy.


    When people leave the sex farm because of Ralph. He needs new unknowing workers and he saves them by bring them into his ark.   There are many things that have went on there and that are still going on there. There are things that have not yet been told for many are afraid that Ralph can dam there souls, so they keep quiet about them and in doing so they hurt anyone who goes there unknowing of the dangers.
       Some people there are evil like ralph, some are good Bro and sisters.  Anyone in spirital power there is evil for backing ralph.  And that does included Timothy Jones

    NAME:: Michael Rowland

    FROM:: True and False

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Hi Sam it's Mike Rowland

    I post the "Sign the Guestbook" here at THE NET TEAM.

    It is perfectly understandable if you have a bone to pick, those of us who had left the farm years ago know what you are going through. This site is here for each of us to share from the heart and who do it honestly.

    I know you Samuel and I can say that you post what you feel with  good intentions.

    The things posted here concerning Timothy were not told to just me, but the 

    Brunners,  Jacksons and many more year before you showed up. Timothy did not 

    disagree with the report as Timothy noded yes while ralph exposed him.

     

    None of us held it against Pastor Timothy as the man is a wonderful person and we 

    all need forgiveness. Timothy knows that I disagree with him staying on the farm 

    and not separating  from ralph the sex pervert. He is not supposed to be eating with 

    a fornicator.

     

    Other than that Timothy and I were always friends. He would come to me for 

    materials, questions or whatever he wanted to talk about right up until the day 

    ralph told the sheriff I would not be given 2-3 days to collect my things after 6 

    years of faithful service, but would have to leave within the hour. 

     

    The issue is ralph and his unscrupulous behavior with all of the brothers and sister 

    just manipulated pawns who are mostly not rotten to the core.

     

    However each of us is being tested to see if we will obey God, rather than men.

     

    I don't know why you left, maybe you had to?

     

    It doesn't matter why, the point is now that you are gone the dark clouds will be 

    clearing daily and this site is here if you want to point out anything even if you 

    disagree.

    This site is the only site for ex-farm members connected to the hub farm the 

    overcomer. Some of the other farms have had the sense to separate.

     

    Anything I hate is man who is to afraid to speak his mind for fear of what his 

    friends will think, so say on Samuel that's what it's for.

     

    Feel free to ask any questions or make any comment you like Samuel.

    But if I endorse it or if I say it on this site then you can rest assure that there is 

    more than one witness to the facts that it happened the way it did.

     

    I can back up everything I have said and hope these details do not make you so 

    angry that you will run away and hide.

     

    All men are susceptible to sins of all kinds, especially when they are very young.

    Sin is what God has permitted us to commit with the hope that someone will hate it.

    Anyone.

    Not many do.

     

    NAME:: Samuel Slaughter

    FROM:: 9 Years At The Farm

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     I am trying to respect the builders of this website,I don't really know who is in charge of it, but I mean no disrespect,But some things written, and some of these statments and dialogs are not true.
         I lived there for 9 years I loved the people there. It has  major issues there I can personly agree with that,but The Apostle Paul says judge nothing before the time.It is not my place to say  they are  damned.I dont think it is any body else's neather.People has done that for years (damn people) I gess ya'll have not learned from them,not to do that.
           Pastor Timothy is one of the best brothers I can think of.He has not ever mulested any body much less a little girl or even his own little girl.I worked with the Pastor day in and day out he don't kiss  Bro Stairs butt,but in meany cases dissagrees with him.I think he needs to voice up more.But he is a good brother,People need to repent for some of the things you said.


           I dont mean to set any body straight,But we are grone men and weman,Idont know why people call in to sight
    peoples sins That people are ashamed of.Dont you rember, the who is it that castst the first stone,the little adulteress woman,that God gave hope,Come on brothers yall dont feel alittle convicted for all the statments yall make.
           Why jump on a mother that is trying to make a liveing for her little girl and some of the statments that was said could hurt to where she dont wont to serve God any more.Less grow up. My wife showed me this websight Im sure the maker of it is not responsable for the things yall say,But as i read all I could think is (this sounds like a bunch of high school girls)
            Less take brother Stair out of the equitoin,less walk back a few feet.Take a look at the forest instead of the trees.What would Jesus Christ do.Im not tring to be smart,(jest trying to have a come to Jesus moment)Is what I'm doing right,Is what I'm doing actually getting me in truble with god?Im not saying you haft to listion to Stair,jest saying dont let the anger stay with you until yall comsume your selfs.
             Yall please dont take offence at the things i say,jest a conserned Brother.

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: The Adultery Sign

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Since ralph uses this verse to refer to everyone else as an adulterer an can in no 

    way qualify as a messenger of God, then what ralph is actually saying is that 

    the peanut brains looking for a sign are adulterous so they won't get a sign, all they 

    will get is me, their mate in adultery.

    Matt 12:An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no 

    sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

    ralph does everything right out in the open while it is in progress.

    See what I mean? ralph is looking for adulterous people who will never get a sign

    not do they want one.

    When ralph is done with some individuals they will hate the thought of God and

    righteous principles because what they were conditioned to believe was God is

    totally distorted, polluted and vile.

    This is a two fold child of hell after ralph is finished.

    See what I mean?

    Jesus said that this generation he came to save was wicked and adulterous right?

    No, he came to seek and to save that which was lost not practicing adulterous

    people.

    God is seeking those who will worship HIM in spirit and in truth, not with lip

    service only.

    The purpose of this life is to evaluate your actions not some hot air that people

    don't really mean.

    If people are adulterous then their actions will show this, and you know what they

    say? Birds of a feather flock together. Meaning that an adulterous person will have

    friends who are of like spirits.

    NAME:: Dave Mull  

    FROM:: Clarification

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Mr. Jacobs wrote:

    "Do not give or send Ralph Stair a dime"

     

    Don't worry brother, I would not send stair another dime as he has stolen enough from me already with his cunning spirit of deception.

    Thank-you very much for that clarification on timothy and peanut brains. I always wondered why stair patronized his followers the way he does. 

    Brother mike, I am so sick and tired of sexual promiscuity there at the farm. reminds me of Sodom and Gomorrah, God had to physically drag me out of that sex farm for my soul to be saved. Praise the Lord!!!

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Peanut Brains

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Well the word up when I arrived in 1995 to live was ralph telling a group of us in 

    the tabernacle after service at the old campgrounds, was that Timothy was playing 

    around with his own daughter and I believe that is another power ralph had over 

    Timothy to use his daughter and to keep Timothy in line.

    Only a select few brothers knew about Timothy's sin, but ralph openly exposed 

    Timothy before the group and used it to his advantage. This kept the focus off 

    ralph and on Timothy.

    This was all explained to the authorities, with no response.

    South Carolina is a creepy place that fosters child pornography/prostitution and sex 

    slavery with blacks. It's not being stopped state wide so big deal if one preacher is 

    building a nest of concubines as long as he has the money to pay for it.

    Big surprise to unsuspecting gullible cHurch folks who give their

    house/wife/children/bank account.

    This is why ralph calls us peanut brains.

    We are peanut brains to believe all of the lies ralph tells to get everything he wants,

    peanut brains not to understand that we will not have one legal leg to stand on

    to recover financially and peanut brains to think going to the law enforcement

    officials could help in anyway.

    Now do you understand why we are peanut brains to ralph?

    Ralph just takes your money and buys his way out.

     




    NAME:: Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: God's People

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    God's people do not go to the garbage dumpsters of this world to get
    their sustenance.

    Do not give or send Ralph Stair a dime. Because when you are in
    financial difficulty he will not lift one finger to help the people he
    stole from.

    ralph uses the same tactics these prosperity preachers teach - if you
    give your going to get back 100 fold and all this other garbage. Jesus
    said when you give, hope nothing again.

    Do not give to ralph snare and the over-come her ministry. You will be
    giving into the kingdom of darkness.

    As a man soweth so shall he also reap.

     




    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Eating At ralf's Table

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      You know brother mike, when I first arrived at the overcomer compound, brother stair was actually very kind to me.  I asked him if i could buy things I needed and he hesitantly said yes. one of them items was a $100.00 ic chip for my $500.00 radio that got struck by lightening. 

    One afternoon I went up and asked him if I could buy an Otoscope as we were having a lot of ear problems there,  well, he said no.  Guess I should have said Pastor Timothy's name as he was the one who wanted it. 

    After all, Timothy's daughter was raped by stair, as stated by Sandy Jones, and that is why to this day Timothy gets special treatment.  Sandy Jones said, ralph would come up to her, check her out from top to bottom,  Sandy told us Timothy was very upset over this carrying on.  That is why to this day Timothy has preferential and blanket approval to do as he feels appropriate. 

    Timothy takes a car and goes wherever he desires without asking stair. Pastor Timothy rarely gets rebuked, and if he does, it is a light tap on the head, as well as Tom Nuss and Chip Landry. No matter what ralph says, no one may take a car and just go where they please,  keys were always locked up.

    You know brother mike, ralph came up to me and seemingly genuinely ask for me to forgive him, stating "I have repented".  I forgave ralph without hesitation.  Well, as Josh Bell said in his testimony, brother stair has not repented, even up to the day I left the compound, stair had not repented.
     

    I have so much more to say here, but space is very limited.
    1Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
     

    This is why brothers will not eat in the dining room with ralph.

     

    With all ralph's sex partners, even up till the day he kicked me off the compound in Sep 2008, I believe there is a very good chance he is suffering an STD
    There is no cure for STD or sexually transmitted disease, Syphilis causes brain deterioration in its late stages. as well as uncontrolled anger, violence and rage.

    Syphilis is a bacterial brain infection & may lead to insanity & dementia.
    this description describes stair exactly.  Stair has attacked me physically in a violent manner I wish I would have called the police. 

    I'm glad I had Christ Jesus inside of me, as I wanted to knock his false teeth down his throat.

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Devoted

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Dear Dave

    Yes my brother such a common story among sinners who feel they are getting their big chance to be or do anything for God.

    Your friend was abused by ralph but he thought he was doing the right thing for the work of Jesus.

    Instead of ralph doing what a true minister should do, Ralph drained this poor soul out and threw him away without conscience.

    This has happened so much with the group in the 90’s as well.

    I am sorry that you had to helplessly watch your friend be destroyed right before your very eyes and not being able to make any difference.

    You would think they could be reasoned with but when they believe that they are doing God’s work you are talking to a stone wall so often and when it is to late nothing can be done to reverse it.

    Generally anyone outside looking in will only call us fools for a desire to love and please God at any expense.

    They can never understand this love.

    God Bless you Dave and may your healing continue.

     

     




    NAME:: Selling Pictures

    FROM:: For Money

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    The Greek word for prostitute is porne (Gr: πόρνη), derived from the verb pernemi (to sell), with the evident modern evolution. The English word pornography, and its corollaries in other languages, are directly derivative of the Greek word porne

    NAME:: Pornography

    FROM:: Definition

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Pornography is the depiction of sexual behavior that is intended to arouse sexual excitement in its audience. During the twentieth century, Americans debated whether pornographic material should be legally protected or banned. Those who believe pornography must be protected argue that the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees freedom of expression, including sexual expression. Traditional opponents of pornography raise moral concerns, arguing that the First Amendment does not protect expression that corrupts people's behavior.

    However, when sexual acts are performed for a live audience, by definition, it is not pornography.


    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Georgia No Name Post

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      Naomi file a "heavy lawsuit" on me?  for what!!!  I could care less what she wears,  besides, I have nothing as stair has already taken everything from me, except my dignity.

    More than that, the devil believes he is Christian, that doesn't mean he'll be saved.  by the way, are you by chance a woman?

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Mike Rowland

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     My dear brother in Christ,
     

    It has been very obvious we are dealing with inexperienced and immature girls.  they are weaker vessels and they cannot help it.
    because you see mike, my entire beef is not with Naomi at all, but with brother stair. 

    Naomi is but a random element caught up in ralph's corruption.  I understand she doesn't see it this way.  Ralph knows what is going on here, yet he does not say anything to Naomi to shut her up because he wants Naomi to be angry and bitter like he is. 

    Ralph is a very sick man and he loves to stir up strife.  I, dave mull, do not hate Naomi nor ralph.  I am exposing ralph's wickedness only.

    You know something mike? I watched as my friend and brother sent stair his entire living, as stair commanded, leaving his rent, food and utilities unpaid.  I helped him when I could, but I refused to give him money as he would only send it to stair. 

    I watched as he became sick from food he got out of the dumpster.  He did not have a bed to sleep on, neither oil to heat his trailer.  All the while stair writes to him "thank-you for your offering brother, God will bless you, send another offering brother". 

    Well mike, my friend became sicker and he died at a very young age.  and as Lazarus, he was taken into abraham's bosom.  He received the evil things in life while ralph lives sumptuously.  My friend lived in absolute squalor while ralph lifted not a finger to help him. 

    Ralph lives in a very nice house, yet humble.  I also knew another brother who lived the same way, in filth, sending all his living to stair,  all the while stair's elect circle receives the good things in life, this breaks my heart,  Mike.

    Dave Mull   P.S.   I am not ashamed to tell the truth here.

    NAME:: From Georgia

    FROM:: Heavy Lawsuit

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Also I believe that Naomi could file a pretty heavy lawsuit on some of you for verbal abuse. There are thousands of women that wear bikinis every year, why pick on one of them? I will also add that many of those women claim to be christians.


      "Judge not, that ye be not judged.

    NAME::  David H

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     There's an old saying among law enforcement personnel: "The apple never rolls very far from the tree." It appears this reliable advice very much applies to Naomi. ;)

    NAME:: Rebekah

    FROM:: Regular Church-Goer

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Naomi's friend!

    "Then you need to ask us as a body to forgive you for naming the name of Jesus or ask forgiveness for offending those of us who are part of the body of Christ." That was your statement to Naomi - Tables Turned! 

    How about this - you offend us! I do think it's quite ridiculous to go about telling people to make ultimatums about retracting their faith, that isn't your place, and I don't know the last time I even met a regular church-goer asking someone to denounce being a saint.


    Well, it isn't my business either how y'all waste your time, Naomi isn't the person you say, excuse me we have been best friends for over a decade now! The most recent one, which is more than any of you can say.  Talking and posting about her or her dad's life has got to be getting old for you!  As far as her little girl - one scripture!  "All things work together for good to those that love God and are the called according to His purpose!" So what does that mean :) could you admit it?

    She does love God - is called - is a saint!

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Bikini Porn

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Stop the evasive pity stuff like nobody loves me and you just hate me, stop it

    Naomi, stop pulling everyone's heart strings to feel sorry for you and stop saying

    that all of your friends here at THE NET TEAM photo shoot in a bikini just like

    you and they are all acting christ-like doing so.

     

    Granted you have a lot of experience avoiding the points brought out and putting

    them all on anyone else like your dad does, you can't help that.

     

    You are like your father just like scripture tells us and no one is going to pet you,

    because you are squealing HATEMONGER.

     

    Put a sock in it.

     

    Stop saying you are a Christ-Like individual while exposing your private parts to

    the camera for money. Treating everyone like, we as Christians are suppose to roll

    out the red carpet for you regardless of what you do, because you are a real nice

    person, according to you.

     

    All this crying about how we are hurting/hating you is just manipulations that all

    of us living with ralph are familar with and watched ralph do,  during what we call

    DAMAGE CONTROL.

     

    Damage Control is when you violate God's Laws and still want to be excepted as a

    holy person so you must turn the tables of focus back on everyone else for YOUR

    sins.

     

    No, all of your friend do not do like you do, sorry, nice try.

     

    Bikini porn is unholy and you know it, so stop trying to butter it up like it's not all

    that bad, while you claim everyone is picking on you for no reason.

     

    If you really want peace and to be able to live in peace, you are going to need the

    Prince of Peace, back in your life again.

     

    The unholy spirit of nudity that comes when you expose your secret parts for

    money, drives away the HOLY SPIRIT, the Prince of Peace.

     

    Now you have the answers to your test, Go and sin no more.

     

    NAME:: Naomi

    FROM:: Bikini to Porn

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Okay, first, to call any photo you've seen "porn" is WAY out of context. WAY. To jump from labeling it "swimsuit" in the caption - to "porn" in the text is absurd.


    I don't dress or live or behave any differently than any of the other children of the people who repeatedly comment here, but I don't see you attacking them, precisely because they're not Ralph Stair's kids. But I'm friends with most of them, simply because I do not hold THEM accountable for the baloney that THEIR parents stir up.


    And my only point here was that I've done nothing to any of you. NOT A THING. And to hold ME accountable and continually try to drag my life, which is none of your business, into this mess because of your issues with my father is just mean and hateful. I've never done a thing to any of you. And all I've ever asked is for you to leave me the heck alone and off your stupid page. How hard is that? Stop trying to slander me because I was born to a man you hate. I didn't get to choose my parents.


    I know my mistakes. I know my faults. I know my sins. I admit them freely. But you won't take away my salvation because of it.


    I'm done here. But once again, I'll ask you, as I have every time you've brought me up and said something untruthful (which is generally the only time you elicit a response from me) for God's sake - do whatever it is you feel such a driving need to do, Lord knows no one can say anything to stop you... but I am not part of the Overcomer anymore. And if your only goal is to keep people away from THERE, then I should have no place on this website and I am sick to death of it. I am a quiet person. I live my life, I mind my own business, I raise my daughter... and I just want to do so in peace.

     

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Bikini Type Photo's

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Basically if you would retract your statement that you are a Christian we would 

    not even have mentioned the porn pic's, but because you say that you are a saint 

    and that undressing in front of a camera is not a sinful behavior, then we as a

    body must reprove and rebuke these evils actions.

     

    I hope you choose one side or the other soon and then we will know where you

    stand concerning nudity and purity.

     

    All that THE NET TEAM has pointed out here is that if you are going to violate

    the Laws and dress codes of Jesus, please be advised that these actions need to be

    called sin by you. Then you need to ask us as a body to forgive you for naming the

    name of Jesus or ask forgiveness for offending those of us who are part of the body

    of Christ.

     

    You can not have it both ways.

     

    Not just ralph, not just you but all who name the name of Jesus.

    The point here really is that you are no more a Christian than ralph is, however there is more hope of your salvation and for this I pray.

     

    Godly people who are true Christ-Like individuals do not willingly break HIS laws

    without remorse. Christ-Like or what Christ is Like is one in the same.

    Either you are just like Christ or you are not.

     

    After a member of the body of Christ or someone claiming to be a member is

    caught 2-3 times and told to stop these sins, they are driven out of fellowship as a

    heathen should be.

    I do not hate you Naomi you know that.

    Your status is clearly heathen, so what, if this is your choice play on.

    The photos are only a reflection of your instructor ralph, nothing more and none

    of  us who lived at the farm watching you grow up were in the least bit shocked,

    knowing your exposure to loose moral values.

    Actually we expected it. There is no malice here.

    We are not mad at you and only hope you can see how we look at the Bible and

    Godly principles.

    It is our duty to ask you to please repent or stop saying you are a saint.

     

    NAME::  Naomi

    FROM::  Copyrighted Photos

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Oh, absolutely, that's exactly what it means.


    The modeling - that is not news to the Net Team - they had copyrighted photos of me splashed across the front page several years back when I first started out - along with blurred areas to make me APPEAR to be nude. How great is that?? You didn't mention that in the previous post.


    Did my parents ever bring me food? Yep. Did we ask for it? Absolutely not. Quite the opposite. I would tell my mother all the time to just leave it, we didn't need it and half the time didn't have room for it, so to put that on me is just stupid. 


    You built me a computer? Well, I'd love to have it... lol. The computer I've had for... let's see... over five years now?? Was given to me as a birthday gift by a mutual friend of Josh and I, his name is David.


    Is my cell phone on Dad's account - yes, it is. It costs about $15 per month, I know because I keep track of my own usage.


    Did Tom purchase the place where I currently live? Yes, he did. And it's still his. Again, did I ask for it? No. I moved on my own, with my own money, into a rental that I lived in for a while until Dad told me one day that he was buying the place. It would have sat here regardless, so give me a reason why I shouldn't have moved into it? The bills and everything else are all in my name.


    Yep, he put in a new transmission. I'm very grateful for that.


    My dress code... do you think I care what you think? Or them? Quite obviously I post my photos publicly, so you can see that I don't.


    It's my turn? My turn for what? I don't have anything to hide. I never have. I'm very open and completely honest about my faults to anyone who cares to know. I know where I went wrong. I'm a much better person because of it and I will NEVER apologize for my beautiful daughter, WHOM, I may add, you have emailed asking about several times.


    And if you want to be ugly about it, no problem there. Just be sure not to email me with any more nice emails about my well-being and pass that on to your wife as well, because it's quite obvious that you don't give a crap about it and I have no idea why you ever spoke to me to begin with if this is how you really feel.


    I've never had a problem with you before now and have never said one ugly word about either of you. But believe me... it's on. :) You have NO reason to bring me back onto this website other than spite and boredom. And the fact that you would do so TO ME simply out of hatred for my FATHER is just pathetic.

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Play Model?

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    What does "effing" mean???  surely not F@#king

    Ok, the many sisters mentioned you were with Joshs' best man and that you were making money as a play model,  if I got that wrong, I stand corrected and please forgive me.
     

    The rest of the facts you did not address, could they be true after all?
    Did you not receive food, grown at the overcomer ministry, by your parents?  on many occasions, I might add.
     

    I know overcomer paid for your cell phone and I built you a computer at the ministry for you.  Your dad told me to spare no expense building it.  No one else could have a computer built for them.

    What about your trailer house, Tom Nuss paid for that out of ministry money.  then sent a crew of brothers to fix it up really nice for you.

    And as for your car, how many times did you bring it to overcomer's garage to have it repaired by the brothers? remember your transmission being rebuilt?  I bought the parts and stair's supporters need to know about this misappropriation of ministry funds.
     

    Your mom said you dress like a "whore" once in the dining hall and the other over international radio.  and from the pic's I have seen of you, she was very kind to you in her description.

    oh, your dad stair speaks just as vulgar as you do, naomi. I will not stoop to either of your low life level, have a nice day.

    Numbers 32:23 and be sure your sin will find you out.
    Luk 8:17 For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither [any thing] hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.

    Remember all this, for your dad, stair, told the whole world and humiliated the both of us, Dave and Mana mull, about our sex life.

    Now it's going to be all your turns,  because I am not finished by any means.
    stay tuned.

    Dave Mull

     

    NAME:: Naomi

    FROM:: Effing Facts Straight

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     The only time you see me here is when you want to bring me into it, but get your effing facts straight....


    Here they are - in simple form.


    Josh left long before I ever did. I left at seventeen and married him.


    THREE years later, we separated and I moved to Ohio, where I had my daughter with someone completely unrelated to either of us. His "best man" was his brother, Jason, and by no means have I ever had any kind of relationship with him. I mean, seriously, COME ON.


    My CAR, thank you very much, was purchased long before Josh and I ever separated and I made the monthly payment for years. I WORKED the entire time I was pregnant as a manager for a local gym and have worked ever since and do still to this day. What sort of work is not your concern, but you really need to sort out your business, because the random, juicy lies you make up are, as usual, ridiculous.


    Rebekah is just fine. In fact, she's sitting right beside me. She's my sitter when I WORK - for MONEY - that I PAY MY OWN BILLS WITH. And she was NOT kicked out. In fact, she was invited to stay when he decided to leave. THAT is the actual fact. They are well and happy now.


    I'm gonna end this with "kiss my butt". I'm glad that you're still SO bored that you have such fun with my life... I am quite happy with it. :) I'm sorry it's wasting so much of yours.

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: "302"

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      There is a way for stair to be committed for psychiatric evaluation, mandatory 3 days for evaluation.  it is called "302" and you may petition the court and they will comply. just call the police and say stair is a danger to himself and those around him.  they'll take it from there.
     how do i know?  i am a paramedic and we 302 committed patients quite often.
     hope this helps.

     

    NAME:: Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: Bundle of Sunshine

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    That little girl from Oklahoma. That little bundle of sunshine stair couldn't keep his

    hands off her. That little girl from Oklahoma. That little girl spoken of in the

    deposition of this dog. That little girl that stair assaulted so many years ago.

    That little girl is no longer a little girl. I wonder if there is any way for The Net

    Team to get in touch with her and get her testimony. If she's still alive, and I

    believe she is, she's got something to offer in the testimonies section.

    This was more than a simple assault.

     

    stair has got a classic case of paranoid schizophrenia.

    ralph is always saying "Look at them look at me" and "Get those damned looks off

    your faces!" As though someone is out to get him. I know people who have this

    and this condition can be treated with medication. I know it's the position of The

    Net Team that ralph is demon possessed, and that is possible. Still there may be

    some way for the state to step in in some cases where someone posses a danger to

    the community. I wonder if this has ever been looked at before. There may be a

    case here for stair to be committed to a psychiatric facility.

     

    How do you protect another child from being raped? You put Ralph Stair back in

    jail where he belongs. This is the only way society can be protected.



    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Slush Funds

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    These issues of money and favoritism were part of daily 

    living when we were there  in the 1990's. When it comes to 

    money the leader can buy lawyers to get out of about 

    anything.

    Even though the record shows ralph does not take an 

    income this only refers to paying taxes.

    It is a good notation on your part Dave that there are many 

    inconsistencies concerning money but we have found that 

    once money is given the courts do not care what the leader 

    does with it as long as they all get some.

    All fathers give their children special treatment anyway.

    Those of us who understand what you mean will all say 

    that we felt lied to about what this ministry said it would 

    do with funds given for radio time verses what actually 

    happens to the funds.

    There are no rules in the corporation concerning who 

    spends what and how.

    This is what we have found to be true through all of the 

    court proceedings.

    Sure we thought that men should be held accountable if 

    they are misusing millions of followers money.

    The answer is clear coming from the Law firm that 

    handled our case. After they stated that there was nothing 

    more they could do in this matter, the comment that we 

    had a website and should warn those coming in the next 

    few years.

    Even the Supreme Court Judges stated that they knew 

    ralph's despicable behavior was unbecoming of a preacher

    there was nothing more legally they could do. 

    Up to that point the only thing they had done is hold a lot

    of ralphs money plus taken a bunch of his money in court

    fees.

    So we can now see why Jesus spoke so strongly against the

    Doctors, Lawyers and cHurch leaders, because they

    devoured widows houses or they had a trap set up to take

    money from the poor.

     

    Live and learn.


    NAME:: Dave

    FROM:: Slush Funds

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    To my brothers and sisters contemplating giving to the

    Overcomerministry:

     

    Upon arriving to live at the overcomerministry compound

    in Jan 2004, Naomi stair and Josh bowles soon became

    husband and wife and left the compound for good, even to

    this day.  Stair would often go and visit their daughter and

    take loads of fresh vegetables and fruits and meats and

    goat milk to Naomi to help them out, we noticed stair

    would shut his bowels of compassion on anyone else

    asking for help.  I remember stair asking me one day “how

    can we send Naomi goat milk on a regular basis”.  Note:

    the compound was already straining to feed the brothers

    and sisters there at the compound with goat milk.  And

    stair was already taking his “double portion”, before

    anyone else.

     

    Well, Naomi soon left Josh bowles, and moved to  ohio and

    had a baby out of wedlock there by Joshs’ best man at t

    heir wedding.  Stair made two trips to see her daughter and

    baby daughter, under the guise “thus saith the Lord, I must

    go up north to preach”.   Did God really tell stair to do

    this?  Remember: the rest of us are “peanut brains and

    spiritual dummies”, according to stair.

     

    Naomi soon was moved back to S.C. at the ministry

    expense and the labor of 2 brothers.  Soon after, Naomi

    arrived at the overcomer ministry with a brand new car!  I

    still wonder how she could afford a nice new and beautiful

    car on her welfare check.  Where did she get the money?

     

    I also wondered why Naomi’s name was on our Verizon

    cell phone bill, were we paying for her to have a cell phone

    also?  And, believe me, she racked up the prime time

    minutes to the extent of exceeding our monthly allowance. 

    Of course, we brothers were rebuked for using the cell

    phone.

     

    One day I was in broadcast support minding my business

    when Stair walked in, asked Tom Nuss how are you doing

    in finding Naomi a house to live in.  now, Stair did buy her

    a trailer and property, no, not out of ministry money, but

    Tom Nuss’s money he brought down there.  Stair told

    him to keep it in his name because he wanted to hide the

    money amongst the brothers from the

    authorities, hence, Stair has no money to his name.   even

    myself, I had all the Paypal money in my name.   I

    remember brother Joe  and his son, with stair, went one

    day to move Naomi into her trailer.  Now, Stair before this

    sent a crew of brothers down to her trailer to remodel it for

    her.  Must have been beautiful.  Who paid for all this? 

    Naomi did sell her clothes and items on one of the

    overcomers website, but how much money can used

    clothes bring these days?

     

    We wonder if “radio land” knows about this questionable

    misappropriation of funds and food.  And habitual

    promiscuity at the overcomerministry?

     

    Well?  Like father(stair), like daughter(Naomi).

     

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Black Slave

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Here is Brother Enoch beating around the bush sounding

    like a stammering oppressed black slave under the dark

    clouds of evil

     

    Dave Mull wrote:

    "This is a clip of brother enoch exposing stair's adultery to the world.

    Showing how Enoch was rebuked for paralleling him with king David."

    www.thenetteam.net/enoch2009adultery.mp3

     

     

    This is Mike now and this is what I say:

    Poor Enoch got pulled off the air huh?

    Them black slaves better not get out of line or they will

    be referred to as the farm idiots.

    Ever notice Timothy Jones kissing ralf's buttock in

    worldwide radio, never once exposing ralf's nature?

    It's all because a good slave should be spiritually castrated

    early in life never to have any real leadership abilities.

     

    What in the world happened to Enoch? Maybe losing

    Wayne has finally sunk in.

     




    NAME:: Bro...Mike

    FROM:: Farm Life

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    This is what ralph looks like when you tell him you and

    your family are leaving

    www.thenetteam.net/stairexpression.jpg

     

    This audio shows us that we have exposed ralph the dog

    www.thenetteam.net/rowlandbutler.mp3

     

    Here is ralph talking worldwide belittling Phils fat wife

    who ralph was catch and admitted using sexually back in

    the 80's before he married off to skinny Phil.

    www.thenetteam.net/philsfatwife.mp3

     

    Oh yes and this is the girl (Rachel Larivee) that catch ralph

    in bed with her mom a couple of years back and is now

    doing the same thing with Robert Vargo. They made a

    baby and now need to get married real fast at ralphs sex

    farm. People do that all of the time but Christians should

    do things right in the sight of the people.

    www.thenetteam.net/rachellarivee.jpg

     

    Last shot of the young mother ralph is using with her

    husbands permission. Farm life with ralph and Rose

    www.thenetteam.net/roselarivee.jpg

     

    Just another average day at ralphs grove.

     

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: How Much Money

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

      I remember stair telling us over and over again in the dining hall, how brother Owen showed up at the gate and asked to see stair.  after brother Owen was told to leave, stair went to the gate and after telling Owen and his girl friend to leave, he asked Owen how much money he had and Owen stated $200,000.00 and that he was a home builder. 

    well, of course stair moved him in right away and told to get rid of his girl friend.  well, brother owen always begins weeping and stair tells us how God favored him.
     

    Come on, give me a break!
     

    Reminds me of the many brothers who have gone there and stair turned them away cause they had no money to give him nor a trade that would benefit him. 

    Also reminds me of my wife's first husband, whom stair would not let him move there to the compound because he was not healthy and had no more money to give stair. 

    Nate died in "abject squalor" after having sent many thousands of dollars to stair to pay for his extravagant life style.

    SHAMEFUL, to say the least.

     

    NAME:: Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: False Prophet

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    stair quotes

    "the hope for the elect to remain in this end last time would be in
    the in the southern states."

    he's a liar. The hope for the elect is that blessed hope and the soon
    appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not some perverted
    wacked out state which is a safe haven for pedophiles.

     

    You want to talk about false prophecies? stair said Mr. Reagan would
    not finish his term of office. Then when he did, stair twisted it and
    said that Reagan didn't finish or complete the agenda he set out to
    do.

    Also stair prophecied they would spend over a billion $ on Mr.
    Reagan's funeral. After Reagan's funeral, I researched it out and
    found they spent a little over $2 million.




    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Stair's prophesy

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Stair's prophesy about to fail, again? upon looking at the world clock (http://www.jetcityorange.com/clocks/world-clock.html), i see we are just about ready to top 7 billion on the world population.
     stair stated over and over again "thus saith the Lord" "the world population will never reach 7 billion" before Jesus returns.
     and so saints, either Jesus is coming in a few months, according to stair, or there will be great loss of life to reduce the population. of course, when the population passes 7 billion, stair will reason that the population is really only 5 billion, thus covering himself.
     could stair be a liar and a false prophet?

     


    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Hiding Place

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Yeah hiding place for ralph so the families he rapes can 

    not fight  back, so while ralph overcomes everyone, he is 

    telling everyone the Almighty has deliver him to do the  

    wildthing and speak for HIM all at the same time, right.

    Like somebody said the uncontrolled extra curriculum is 

    eating out ole ralphs brain.

     

    Sounds like Tarzan is swinging from the vines at the farm 

    now days, beating his chest going ape on everything that 

    moves, then when it's church time radio showtime the 

    monkey stops scratching under his arms long enough to let

    the world know he has repented and is gOds man.

     

    The only thunder ralph is going to hear is when God tells

    ralph to "depart ye cursed into everlasting torment"

    In the meantime ralph should party high because this is his

    heaven on earth.

     

     

    NAME:: Tim Butler

    FROM:: Hiding Place

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Found this interesting...off of Stair's website.


    God Bless


    June 1 - 2010


    With trembling in my spirit I write to day as I am just overwhelmed with the urgency of time as it will soon end for all to make it into the ark.


    So many just snared by there finaces and debt and earthyly thing and cannot get free.  One reason is they do not want to be free.  They love this present eveil world and there affection on the thing of this life.


    We now are striving to enter in the hiding place from the coming tempest and storm and we maut do this withe the saints. For sake not the gathering together with the people of God.


    Heb 11:24  By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
    Heb 11:25  Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;
    Heb 11:26  Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward.
    Heb 11:27  By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
    Heb 11:28  Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.


    Heb 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


    The last few days and months I have very carefully told all that the Lord spoke to me over 40 years again and told me that the hope for the elect to remain in this end last time would be in the in the southern states.


    Our mind tells us that that cannot be done but with over 3 million of Israelis in Egypt God move them and brought them forth as the people of God and provided for them in the wilderness (tribulation)  as they prepared to enter into the land of promise.


    The earily church live close to each other. Act 2:46  And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,


    It has been given to me to be the prophet to preserve the end time church and we seek gather the few in every place with other saints to wait out this time of trouble and tribulation and to enter tin the promise of Hid coming.


    As we being prepared  for the end time here in the US  God moved  30 years ago and moved me into the south and with out any funds or possession we came and through much tribulation and trials a chastisement brought to this place of safety and helped us to prepare for the final days and we here many hope to be that elect alive as a pattern to all  those around the world that God is gathering  2 or 3 in his name.


    Just recent with the falling dollar the way to live and move to this area has become  more easy and  living less costly.  Houses land and such like are very low - we have been able to buy 3 places for less than $25,000.00  ready to live in a out of the cities  where follk can live daily with the saints and worship as we make ready for the hard times.


    We have a place that can be rented for $300 per month near by and here on the community to those that are willing to leave all to live with the saints here we still a have 7-or 8 homes ready to live in and become a part of the community in common unity as we seek to perfect that in us and to help others worldwide to make a people ready for the Lord coming.


    I will have a the community  information placed here on the site. www.overcomerministry.com.  My advice and  counsel is if you seek to move south into this area. Just do it. cut all ties and things where you are and as Abraham come south. That is How I did and  the others that are here in this are and fame did the same. The lord opened and made the way out of no way.


    Soon we shall see the final and hear the 4th thunder and then all hell will brake lose against the church that is prepared and the saints will overcome the storm and flood because they moved with the fear of God or to disobey him   and got into the ark and will of God.


    Heb 11:6  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
    Heb 11:7  By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.


    Can we hear from you this week and send that offering to sustain the prophet and I as Elijah of old tell you in Jesus name.  Your word of God needed to direct you ( meal barrel) will no go dry. And you cruses of oil (the Spirit of God needed to  give to strength and Hope will not fail thee) until Jesus come and bring the reign on earth.


    Remember you ca hear always on the internet- by Satellite or phone (1-319-237-8001 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              1-319-237-8001      end_of_the_skype_highlighting.


    Let me hear from you soon.   Our contact phone is     1-843-701-5053 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              1-843-701-5053      end_of_the_skype_highlighting  Call now if you will.


    Brother  Stair.

     




    NAME:: New Testimonies

    FROM:: Dave and Mana

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    http://www.thenetteam.net/davemull.html

     

    http://www.thenetteam.net/manamull.html

     

    If Samuel and other want to post they are welcome so let them al know.


    NAME:: Mana

    FROM:: Thanks

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Thanks for the words and the encouragement.  But everyone seems to push me over.  Guess I am too trusting.  I am learning to be  more vigilant.

    NAME:: Thomas R Belford

    FROM:: Farm god ralf

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Men that live at stairs farm today will have a very numb feeling come over them when all things come to an end.


    The hair will rise on the back of their necks when they come to realize that the voice they have followed for so long has cost them their souls.


    They have seen the evil stair has repeated over and over and they have worshiped him and raised stair up as the way to salvation


    Chip knows Stair is wrong yet he helps him do wicked things.   Rick of the river backs the wicked ways. And they have their rewards. Positions of power on the farms as they serve their god Ralph.

    NAME:: Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: Toronto

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    God's people don't dive in dumpsters. My God shall supply all your needs according to HIS RICHES IN GLORY - not out of the world's garbage dumpsters

     

    Little old ladies would clasp their hands over their mouths gasping in horror as he preached lasciviousness. "Make me a cake first – gimme some sex" he would preach.

     

    he would also twist that Scripture the husbandman must be first partaker of the fruits. In other words he should first get the young virgin daughters – he should be a partaker of them – and only after that could the young men have them.

     

    Mike is right. There is still sex perversion going on at the farm, maybe even worse. It’s a spirit.




    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Mana's Heartbreak

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Hi Mana 

    I have been waiting for others to read this but I just don't have the words either.

    The darkness that hangs over that place is so incredibly hard to express in words that I could cry thinking about those 2 weeks.

    God has favored you.

    You and Dave will never be the same docile push overs you had been in the past.

    We know what you guys are going through and I for one want to thank each of you for such courage.

    Only a handful have this righteous fire to share with others in hopes of helping anyone.  

    Thanks so much, it really bring us back to that beating we all have received.

    Heb 11: 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:
    36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:
    37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder,

     

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Stair Exposed

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Hi Noel

    Stair was first exposed to the entire world on short wave radio, the same channel ralph is on in the winter of 2002 from my trailer 1 mile from the farm.

    All a person need is a telephone and some radio time and all of the exiting families called in and talked about what had been happening for 1 full year.

    Timothy Butler also purchased radio time and did the same thing, exposing ralph's sex farm worldwide.

    The result is that everyone now knows what they had suspected, that ralph is a pervert.

    Now there will always be a few more Christians who are wishing for the good life fall into ralphs trap.

    Ralph is building himself one gigantic millstone as he hurts, damages, and destroys Godly people and their loved ones.

    The latest exodus has just as much right to expose ralph's lying ministry as we did.

    Who knows maybe they might get a lawyer that knows what he is doing so the charges are not thrown out of court after a decade pending.

    All I have heard is that the Lawyers stating uncharted territory. 

    The bottom line right from the queen of South Carolina was "If these people had a profit love affair and he turned out bad its not her problem"

    In other words go makes some more money FOOL.

    This because Church leaders are above the working class laws of society.

    Just like the Catholic priest raping little 5 year old boys and do not stand trail for their evil acts.

    Church and state laws keep the leaders from answering to their crimes.

    The state laws state that none of the facts can even be admitted to be heard, its doesn't matter what.

    If someone is killed then yes the case is heard in the State. Criminal acts are heard. Money crimes have an entirely separate set of laws to follow.

    Money lines the pockets of the Lawyers and Judges so you understand why these double standards apply with money as apposed to murders, etc...... .............................

     

     

    NAME:: Noel

    FROM:: ORLANDO

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     The Almighty God is Truly revealing through your website, the truth about Stair. The day will come when The Almighty God will EXPOSE the EVIL, that is called the OVERCOMER MINISTRY to the entire world. May the Almighty God Bless and keep us all from the entrapments of the evil one. Marantha.

    NAME::  Dave Mull

    FROM:: Dumpster Diving

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    stair PRESENTLY forbids dumpster diving as there is a fine if you are caught in the act.  This doesn't mean the brothers don't engage in this illegal activity, because they do frequently.  As stair's food supply dwindles though, I'm sure he will have to resort to dumpster diving again.  As the brothers refuse to implement two growing seasons.  I personally don't believe they need much more food as stair's followers have diminished in numbers.

    NAME:: Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: Toronto, Canada

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    stair lives in relative comfort while the people of God live in abject squalor and poverty. he used to send God's people into garbage dumpsters to fish out food. Of course he and his wife would never feast on this filth. Some of it had that cigarette butt taste, no matter how much they washed this "food".

     

    NAME:: Dave Mull  

    FROM:: Desperate Bondage

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Rebeca (Connally)Hodgson and her baby were told by stair to leave the compound, but her husband Mark can stay.  Mark opted to leave with his family and stair gave them no money nor a car.  Family had to pick them up.  stair is very desperate to keep people there under bondage and so you must have someone come pick you up and you may not take anything with you.  stair lies again!

    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Choking Samuel

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

      Samuel Slaughter and his wife recently were able to detach themselves from the overcomer ministry.  Samuel is easy going and would not hurt a fly.  stair stated he was rebellious and in the dining room, stair went up to Samuel and began choking him with his two hands to cut off his oxygen supply.  Samuel had no choice but to push stair away.  All awhile, the brothers sat there and watched, not lifting a hand to help Samuel.  As Samuel was leaving the compound for good, he went up to stair and asked for forgiveness, stair stated "I WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU". 
     Do you still believe stair is a prophet???

    NAME:: I care

    FROM:: Did You  Know?

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    1. Samuel slaughter and his wife left the compound last year?

    A. No I had not heard but thanks

    2. Or Rebecca and her baby were kicked out and her husband mark Hodgson left with them?   They were given no money and no car.

    Did You know that?

    A. No I did not but thank you for letting us know

    NAME:: Rowland

    FROM:: Detroit

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    I come from the local area of Metro Detroit where a person can walk down the street and see almost everything from skyscraper buildings to street people. Drugs are in the hands of the young runners who will advertise to you as you walk by.

    The male prostitutes are just like the female ones, all sprucing up to catch a ride or even a quick look of 4sale.

    This is what is expected in the large Metropolitan cities today.

    Laws change and people on the street are in the clear to do many of these actions more freely.

    As a Christian man or woman desiring to separate from the world to find a group of Godly people is a wonderful thought.

    However this is only a nice idea as many of the people coming to these farms are more often than not, no different in their thinking than the town they grew up in.

    That is why if people come together in these farms they must follow Gods plan for leadership to overcome the works of the flesh that will prevail without the power to rise about them.

    This is why all of the farms associated with the dictatorship format will fail in true Godly principles, since the leaders are subject to favoritism. 

    Money is often used to show special favor, spotlight and carries no weight in the kingdom.

    As a for instances in the 1990's when ralph was having his hay day bringing down big money in the radio land broadcast this is all ralph talked about along with sex.

    First there was Robert Vargo at 2.2 mil then his dear friend Larry Hartly at so many hundreds of thousands and the list goes on and on.

    Next was the Duval families with Mikes high sounding job, traveling the country and giving ralph huge sums of capital.

    Sister Walker hundreds of thousands and others brothers and sisters many.

    Based on these amounts each individual was honored day after day in the radio service or dinning hall.

    In every event the other individuals who were unable to bring these giant bags of money were compared to those in the room who only brought their clothes.

    Money for position was always factored into the daily equation of who does what and who gets what. Who tells who what to do and who is up high and who is down low.

    These building blocks were used by ralph to put together or pair up those who were favorites concerning money and those who would be in charge of spiritual matters. Whoever it turned out that the people bringing money liked.

    In other words those who brought money were elevated to hold them there so they would not want to leave right away and ralph give a little of their money back.

    The appetite to be stroked and groomed for this high calling was cultivated regularly.

    In this formula ralph paired up those with money with those who liked the personality spotlite. These were now very important heads before the group.

    The big problem comes when a leader mixes money/position and peer pressure political competition with the idea these are now very spiritual leaders. The two are ememies.

    This is ralph's mess.

    What resulted is what ralph planed "Total disunity"

    Yes we were overcome and all who dare not follow the plan of God for proper leadership quality will as well.

    God's word is what is being shown to be true here. AMEN

    Let every man be a liar.

    NAME:: Farm Newsroom

    FROM:: Down on the Farm

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    This has recently been confirmed, first hand at the overcomer hell ministry, that rampant sex is going on much worse than I had described previously.  Not mentioning any names now.  Yes, it is true Robert Vargo and Rachel Larivee have produced a baby daughter,  as she went to Texas to have the baby.

    The Connally's, from N.C. and have also moved in to stairs compound.
    I have heard, it is really bad there with half the people leaving pastor rice's compound, and on their way down in numbers.

    ralph is asking every girl for sex and the single boys are doing it to.

    Men need wives but ralphs wants these extra females for favors  so there  simply isn't enough for the other too.

    The only way the single men will prevail and obtain what they need is follow the practices of their daddy ralph.

    This is the goal of evil, misery loves company.

    You are not so called to this evil end Saints.

    God Bless you.


    NAME:: Tim Butler

    FROM:: Dave's testimony

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Reading Brother Dave's testimony once again confirms to me that both this website and my website www.truthaboutstair.com are not a waste of time. Often times I have thought to not renew the site but then someone calls or writes or gives a testimony like Dave did and I know it is worth every penny to have it on the web.


    Both Bro. Mike and I have been called everything from a barking dog to Satan himself by Stair and his cronies, yet truth has prevailed and many have been delivered from the Snair of the fowler (Stair).


    My wife(Pearl) has transposed some of the excerpts from the Stair lawsuite we had and I will be posting them in the coming days.

     


    NAME:: Mana (Stanwood) Mull 

    FROM:: Pennsylvania

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Does anyone know Brandy (Loupe) Wrights address or phone number?  We are very good friends and I know she will want to talk with me again.  daveandmana@gmail.com  Thank-you.

    NAME:: Mana (Stanwood) Mull

    FROM:: Pennsylvania

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Greetings, To my Brothers and Sisters in the name of The Lord, Jesus Christ,

    My name is Mana (Stanwood) Mull and I met Nathan Stanwood through hearing about The Overcomer Ministry.  I married Nate in the year of 1989 and during these years I came to hear about Stair and The Overcomer Ministry.  We also contacted The Higher Ground Community (Frank Loupe) as well as we visited there about 4 times.  After 3 years of marriage with Nate and dealing with dialysis and other health problems, he passed away with heart failure.  During these difficulty years of trials for me going through “the valley of shadow of death”, I kept in contact with Stair and he told me to come for a visit at The Overcomer Compound, having David Mull drive me down there.

    Stair finally married David Mull and me in Nov 2003.  And we immediately moved to the compound.  In the first year living there, I worked with the sisters in the kitchen.  One afternoon we heard a sexual orgasm take place over the broadcast, lasting about 45 seconds over the international radio.  My husband stated several brothers raced to the radio room to cut it off.  Stair was in the radio room watching pornography and was not aware the obscene sounds going over the airways.  Stair explained it was bleeding over from another program.

     My duties working with the sisters included harvesting, planting, and watering the garden.  I was told and expected to work all the time, even when I was tired or sick.  I was told, the sisters were “to be seen and not heard”.  One time, I was told by Teresa Stair that I was to work in the kitchen with Rose Larivee(Dennis Larivee’s wife).  Every morning, when I would go to work to do breakfast, Stair would always show up alone in the kitchen.   Stair would look at Rose and STARE at her up and down, just simply watching her every move with LUST and smiling at her too! When it comes to making morning muffins for breakfast, Rose would make a special dish on the side for Stair to eat and to enjoy her cooking.  By the way, stair eventually denied my husband special meals because of his allergies.

    During my stay at the compound, my monthly cycle symptoms would cause me physical and emotional instability while standing on my feet.   I would be in pain all the time and I had to physically push my physical limits.  After about a year and a half, my husband and I had not consummated our marriage yet because of my health and Stair commanded us to do that, right in front of everybody on the radio worldwide.  That was humiliating and embarrassing to me!  As I was a high-risk pregnancy.   Then, to my worst fear, I became pregnant for the first time and it wasn’t until I was at 7 months pregnant that I was having some unusual pain in my abdomen.   But I was told to keep working and since they were short of sisters on duties, most of them  overloaded with work.  It came to some point where the pain was  unbearable.  Finally, I came to the BREAKING POINT!  The baby was not coming out until full term, a few more weeks to go!

      I was sitting in a chair on a beautiful day, at 9 months pregnant, in our trailer.  My uterus was draining large amounts of infection.  I had been pushing for almost 2 weeks and the baby would not coming out. It was in the morning, at 9 months, when Stair opened the door of our house and barged in and stood in front of me, my husband was beside me.  Stair asks me if I wanted to go to the hospital.  My reply was yes.  At this point, I was having such excruciating pain and blacking out to the point where I was having a vision of a beautiful stairway that leads to the sky ,like Jacob’s Ladder  in  surroundings of  a colorful garden, many colors like Joseph’s robe.   Then I was taken to the emergency room and I was given a C-section to remove the dead baby girl.  The Dr. stated that I was at very close to death. 

    Stair recovered the body from Charleston and wanted to bury the baby girl, even before I could get out of the Hospital.  Stair was very angry, like a mad man.

     My recovery was slow and long and stair was not tolerating me very well.  He said I was faking everything.  I went to the Dr.  And when stair found out, he told my husband to stop going to the Dr.   Of course, he denied saying this in front of everyone in the Dining Hall.

     After my recovery, at about 6 months, I became increasingly and seriously ill with abdominal pain and lethargy.  I decided I needed to see a Dr. as this was not good.  My husband asked stair if I could go see a Dr. and he refused, until he knew my in-laws would pay for everything, and then stair happily agreed.  After 3 weeks in PA, the Dr. said I had a systemic infection (infection traveling throughout the body) and I was again near death.  Stair was only concerned about when I was coming back so I could get to work.  During the interim, my husband called me and stated we had to leave the farm because stair had assaulted him, demanding he leave the compound.

    After living for 5 years at The Overcomer Ministry sick and near death, within a short time after leaving,  I am doing much better in my health and I just Thank The Lord for His Goodness and Mercy!

     Stair is a lunatic and his brain chemistry is off balance probably from having syphilis and gonorrhea for so long.  Stair is a mad man and I don’t believe he knows what he has become.   He is a very sick man.  I remember working with the sisters at the compound, the sisters would tell me how Stair would come up to them and ask for a “hug” and whisper for “sex”.  Many sisters were offended at stair asking them for sexual favors.  Also,  I remember  the incident in the Dining Hall that Stair would humiliate me and pointing at me,  stating that it was my fault that I had caused the baby’s death.  But, you cannot deliver a breech baby without intervention.

    Another incident that I remember .  One morning, Rose Larivee was starred down by R.Stair and Teresa saw him and stated “GO AHEAD, STARE AT HER” everyone heard.  Teresa was no doubt very upset. Then Stair says to thw whole group “Teresa has bipolar” and  because of all our iniquity that she is the way she is, or something like that.  I would be bipolar also if my husband was whoring around the compound.  Stair hugged me on at least 2 occasions, however, I did not think anything of it.  No sister is safe there on the compound.  Stair would often come up to us sisters and ask if we had seen “sister Stair”, we told him “that way”, Stair would then go in the opposite direction, after Rose presumably.   Stair is aware everyone knows about his sexual promiscuity, he no longer cares as no brother will approach him about it.  The sisters all say “you just have to forgive him, forget, and move on”.

     Christopher Landry and Ann came to see me off, during our last day there on the compound, he (Chip) stated "Stair was wrong for assaulting your husband", and Landry stated he "does not believe everything Stair says or does is right".  My question was, then why does he stay there?  Landry stated “he is what he is”, I’d like to know what exactly he is then….

      Please email me any questions daveandmana@gmail.com


    signed,

    Mana (Stanwood) Mull

     

     




    NAME:: Brother Mike 

    FROM:: Wolves Pleasure

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    If you understand the nature of a wolf you will know that Wolves enjoy the torment of their helpless victims before wolfy goes for the main artery.

     
    The pleasure for the wolf comes from watching the pure innocent running food died of a heart attack through FEAR!!!!!!
     

    Who's afraid of the big bad wolf? Haven't you heard?

     

    The wolf wants something to thrill his ego while drinking the life's blood

    The Wolf loves to stalk the prey, displaying the body language "I am going to kill you" only to watch the weaker vessel fall to it's merciless grip.

    The Wolf will bat the helpless soul around watching it run and become paralyzed as it see the futility of escape.

    The Wolf gets his thrill through a show of power over the victim to the pack.

    Wolves are pack animals and are unable to function alone in most cases.

    Wolves love to show off to the pack.

    Thanks Dave Mull for your example of separating from evil.

    When new followers come to ralph they are innocent and helpless against the wolf because they are thinking ralph is holy.

    This is a picture of the attitude of most coming to the farms.

    They are innocent or unaware of the fact that a wolf spirit has used colorful words to draw them into the trap.

    Once in the trap the wolf can slap around God's people till the bags of money fall to the ground.

    Next the wolf wants a ride on your way out.

    You will leave.


    NAME:: Dave Mull

    FROM:: Pennsylvania

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    To any Brothers or Sisters considering supporting or moving to the
    overcomer farm compound:

    The following is a testimony of my time living at the compound. These are
    facts and not circumstantial facts unless stated.

    Before I moved to the compound, I had heard stair since 1996 and was
    impressed by what he preached over the radio and kept close contact with
    him and supported him. I met Nate Stanwood, and his wife, in 1996 in
    Bethlehem, PA at one of stair's meetings. Nate and I became very close
    brothers. Nate visited stair a few times, but stair would not let him move
    there because of his need for kidney dialysis. It didn't strike me at the
    time, but why would God not heal Nate if you have to be in a compound in
    order to be saved? By the way, this is pastor rice's doctrine, even though
    it says no where in the Bible you must be in a compound to be saved. Well,
    I just blew it off and in Jan 2002, Nate died.

    Stair said to come for another visit, and so Nate's wife Mana and I headed
    to Walterboro, SC as we were commanded. I was perfectly healthy. Little
    did I know, stair was waiting for me to get out of debt so as he could move
    us down there and be married. Stair approached me and said he confessed
    his sins and has been forgiven, little did I know, he again lied to me.

    Mana and I married in Nov 2003 at the compound and for the first 2 years,
    everything was uneventful, except I developed a cough as soon as I moved in
    there which slowly progressed through our five years there to severe, life
    threatening asthma. I had no family history thereof. Stair was praying
    for me and buying me herbs, but to no avail. Then he began sending brothers
    to pray for me as he did not want to deal with me anymore. I would spend
    nights on end in static asthmaticus , I thought sure I was going to die. I
    would sleep during the day, if my asthma broke. I was able to get away
    with this for some time because moratto thought I was working on broadcast
    support and stair thought I was working out in the field with the brothers.
    Finally, stair became angry and commanded me to leave the compound, I
    refused until the third time later when he barged into my cottage and
    pushed me around my living room a few times and demanded I leave now. I
    said nothing to him and waited for him to leave my cottage. All I could
    see was the devil in his eyes. I was trembling. I called family and asked
    them to help me leave this compound. Stair gave me a little money and my
    two vehicles back, practically destroyed by the brothers as with everything
    else we brought there. By the way, I never saw nor heard of anyone being
    healed while at the compound that stair prayed for.

    At 18 months into our new life, from hell, stair found out I had not
    consummated our marriage and ordered me to have sex with her or he would
    give Mana to another brother. My reasoning for not consummating was
    because I knew Mana could not handle a pregnancy. Well, sure enough, Mana
    became pregnant and little did we know the baby butt breached and because
    we were not allowed to go to the Hospital our baby finally died and Mana
    was about to succumb, until her family called and threatened a law suit if
    Mana dies, and so stair and jones came to our house and authorized us to go
    to the Hospital. Mana had to have a c-section to remove the body and Mana
    was not expected to live.

    Stair had prophesied Mana would have a baby boy. Another failed prophesy
    of his. Stair said he would pay the $30,000. Hospital bill, stair paid
    $100. And left the rest for me to pay.

    After this ordeal passed, stair became increasingly angry with us and
    attacked us both daily in the dining hall to the point I became angry and
    hateful. We were humiliated and shamed daily. I never did show out as
    Jesus was my example.

    Sexual gratification had become an obsession with the brothers and stair.
    At first, I thought it was cute and innocent until I observed and heard
    brothers constantly meeting with sisters and even into brothers trailers in
    the late evening hours. Righteous indignation soon enveloped me.

    Stair is a habitual liar and a sexual deviant. Stair screams and hollers
    and beats his wife, not to mention the brothers. There is no woman or
    girl safe there at the compound. Believe me, I know. When stair reads
    this, he will tell me to "go to hell", I guarantee you this.

    Stair has changed the Sabbath to be 7pm Friday to 7pm Saturday and this is
    not biblical. Stair says "whatever comes out of my mouth is thus saith the
    Lord". Stair mocks Jesus on a daily basis in the dining hall and
    everything he talks about has a sexual connotation to it. Stair admitted
    to us his homosexual tendencies and says we brothers also have them. And
    so, your son is not safe their either. I am told stair brags to the elite
    brothers that he can have any woman he desires. Stair habitually marries
    brothers and sisters whom have been previously married and divorced. I
    don't believe this is Biblical. We are not allowed to read the Holy Bible
    or quote it in the open, only in your trailer, except Christopher landry
    whom at times stair appoints. As moratto says, "stair is the word of God",
    such blasphemy. Stair believes he is equal to or above Jesus, and is quite
    obvious there. I have been told recently first hand, that stair now uses
    the F@#%, S$%& and Bitch word during dining hall sessions. I do not
    believe stair is a prophet or man of God. Stair commands "double honor"
    yet rarely gets it unless he seizes the moment himself. Stair states he
    has spent over 200,000.00 of God's money on his legal defense. That is,
    money you and I sent him. Stair is a con-artist. That compound is not
    self sustainable as stair spends thousands of $$ every month on food as
    their supplies are rapidly dwindling. The only thing that grows there is
    garlic, onions and sweet potatoes and some fruits, as God has time and time
    again smote their crops with pestilence.

    It has been over two years now since we left the compound and my body has
    healed itself to the point I can work a job now. I feel I have stepped
    out of a parallel dimension. If stair is a prophet of God, then let me tell you this, I’m going to be the next pope.

    You may email me any questions as this space is not adequate to detail all
    our trials there.

    daveandmana@gmail.com

    to stair, do not bother emailing me until you repent of your wickedness and
    bring forth good fruit, if you can.



    Signed,

    Dave Mull

    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM:: Million Dollar Boy

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Before the year 2000 ralph induced a boy into his commune, who was near death from an accident in a construction elevator. Insurance money was given to  Robert V. and then was put into the hand of r g stair.

    I was there at the time watching all of the special favors for Rob that seemed  perfectly fine to me at the time.

    Here was a boy all crippled up and  in heavy pain every minute and thinking he would not make it much longer.

    The leaders who saw the big money come in started to bring as many young virgins around Rob to keep Robs mind off of the pain, they would say.

    I watched Robert go around in his military apparel  so as to impress all of the little girls.

    How things have changed since that time.

    The problem is that the leaders only reward for Rob is what they wanted, being the earthly fleshly dish.

    Rob was setup with a pretty girl that never worked out.

    On the farm a man need only OVERCOME a woman for her to become his wife, just like father/daddy ralph does.

    Fear of being exposed keeps the underclassmen in line.

    As beginners, all of the leaders think that everyone sins so what is the big deal right?

    The difference being that God's people are sorry and sick of the sin, while those at the overcomer are unable to see that people being sorry they are catch is not the same thing.

    If ralph validates it, no one compares the action with scripture.

    Feeling good through the sex act is not the basis for Godly living.

     

    NAME:: M.Rowland

    FROM:: Chief men Dogs

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    I received a call today from a former farm dweller. Here are some highlights of ralf's farm spirit.

    2011 Update

    #1. ralph continues to have sex with another mans wife (Rose Larivee) while her husband(Dennis) OKAY's these engagements. 

    #2 Their daughter who caught ralph and her mom thinking it was so terrible is now doing almost the same thing.

    #3 Some years back Tim Jones wife Sandy had been asked to go to bed with ralf.

    #4 Chip, Tim Jones, ETC...... leaders/brown nosers of ralfs still standing and sticking up for ralf as people are thrown out of their places.

    #5 Special favors for Robert V. namely many young Girls coming and going from Roberts trailer late night.  Some say he got one pregnant.

    #6 At least 2-3 other brothers who are single are cornering sisters in backrooms asking for sexual favors.

     

    It is getting darker

     

    NAME:: Leaving the Farm

    FROM:: Not So Blind

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    This message is to those living at ralphs overcomer farm. Any work you have accomplished or any place you have built up to live in will be lost the day you leave and you will leave.

    Leaving is all that you will be able to do, because the lands and money are in the name of ralph and a few others, despite the lies coming from ralph saying that "none of it is his" and "the people of God own it" or "the people could team up and gain control"

    Phrases like "If you give all to God, He will see to it you have a place at the saints farms" or "The farm's are run by Gods leaders and not one man" are total and complete falsehood.

    Anyone who goes against the rule will be cast out legally without a leg to stand on. You are nothing legally. You are the slaves that's all.

    God is going to Damn ralph be sure of this God is not mocked.

    The young people who now reside under ralph's dictatorship should never lay down their freedom, against the desire of God and His plan for His little one's.

    Gods word tells us that one man can never rule yet the farms have it so.

    The Bible order of running the Church shows us that many leaders together agree on things.

    If all of the lower leaders are afraid of the top leader, then guess what fool?

    Their are no functioning lower leaders, though they say they are leaders.

    There are no big me's and little you's in the kingdom.

    If only one leader is heard continually and the others are told to be quiet then guess what fool? This is a dictatorship. Free speech comes from God.

    If you are catching on just wait for the right time and God will make a way of escape for you and remember never to fear men.

    The Fool has said in his heart NO GOD.

    DON'T BE A FOOL!


    NAME::  Mr Jacobs

    FROM:: Toronto, Canada

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    These were ralf attacks rape attacks by an uncircumcized whoremonger on two Christian girls. These girls didn't want to have sex with ralf, a dried out senior citizen. What young girl would? These girls wanted to save their virginity for their husbands. ralf took that away from them. They can never have it back again. ralf twisted and manipulated and intimidated his way so he could get sex with teenage girls (they were 18 at the time).

    One girl told him, "I want to have a boyfriend". stair told her "I will be your boyfriend".

    This sick dog.


    NAME:: Mr Jacobs 

    FROM:: Toronto 

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Stair used to go into the bank in Walterbroro and they would stand at attention.

    "That guy puts millions of dollars into this bank" the branch manager would declare.

    Now when he walks in they mutter "child molester" under their breath and he hangs his head low.

    NAME:: 

    FROM:: British Columbia

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    stair sent him away empty One brother came through Canady's with not much.

    Just a gym bag and the love of Christ. He needed a place to stay.

    stair saw that he had nothing to offer so he sent him away empty.

    stair had lots of places for this brother to stay.

    How dwelleth the Love of God in stair when he has this world's good and

    then shuts up his bowels of compassion?


    The love of God does not dwell in rg stair.

     

    NAME::  Toronto

    FROM:: Mount Pleasant Road

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Let us never forget he was going to tell our God to go to hell.


    If God didn't do things "his" way.


    That's the way ralf always is. Screaming up a tamtrum if he doesn't get his own way like a spoiled little boy.

    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Good and Bad Leaders

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Greetings Brothers and Sisters

    Since about age ten I have talked freely to people about who God is in their 

    lives, this continues to date.

     

    If led to speak to individuals about Church/Christianity/ETC..... I am asked 

    "what religious denomination are you?" The reply is always the same "I don't 

    feel that any wooden structure is a manifestation of "THE CHURCH" and 

    therefore don't go to these places to become a cHurch member"

     

    When asked why again, I will answer that the wOoden cHurch corp's are 

    after money and preach false doctrines that guarantee that their corp brings 

    in this money through the tithing lie.

     

    So this has become very easy to tell who loves money and who loves God.

    Now you might all ask what about this guy or what about that guy?

    My answer is to see what they do about getting money to fund their 501C3.

     

    It's so simple.

     

    They all teach lies starting with money and if they teach lies about money 

    then they are deceived about many things concerning what is right and 

    wrong, clean and unclean.

     

    How do I know?

     

    Because till 50 years of age I thought tithing was a good thing to do for God 

    and yet was not at all what God wanted. It's what the false leaders all 

    wanted.

    Scripture clearly shows us in Leviticus that only tillers of the ground and 

    herdsmen were eligible to give a tenth of their increase. Money was used to 

    pay for many things in their day and even thousands of years before LEVI, 

    but money was not what God commanded them to give.

     

    It was not that God was so poor that HE couldn't take care of LEVI so HE 

    had to beg for food to feed them. No not at all, what God said was that HE 

    would give an increase to these two classes of workmen. Or in other words 

    wood increase the herd and the production of crops grown so as to not cut 

    into the workers income.

     

    God our provider has been put into a class of a beggar who though owns the 

    cattle on a thousand hills, still needs to squeeze that little old ladies last ten 

    spot out of her wallet each mouth at your cHurch down the block or HE will 

    go belly up.

     

    Religious Babylon is a cage of trapped birds who have all learned to traffic 

    from the false system. They get hateful when cornered on the subject.

     

    They don't know it but money/power/prestige is what 

    they serve so they are easy to spot. They are little Boys with their hand out.

     

    The Apostle Paul has shown the proper example of leaders in the true 

    CHURCH OF JESUS, they work like everybody else, they don't beg for easy 

    money to live off of, while demanding more and  damning all who miss a 

    payment.

     

    Isa 13:12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than 

    the golden wedge of Ophir.

    NAME:: Bro Rowland

    FROM:: Farm Living

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Hey Thomas

    I remember you setting long hours listening to ralph and how paralyzing 

    those dinning hall thrashings had become.

    David Jackson, Mike Duval,  all of us who lived there had to endure

    the persecutions of Christians.

    ralph was catch time after time over the years, in more ways than one 

    maintaining his thirst and appetites, so he could fulfill the sexual lusts of the 

    flesh. 

    This site is simply a witness against ralph's misuse of authority, that is 

    to say using the name of Jesus as a platform to exercise headship over God's 

    people in order to slaughter the little lambs to satisfy fleeting frivolous 

    desires. 

    What  amazes me is how so many who lived there say nothing to 

    warn against going to this farm and those who stay with ralph never 

    separating from this sort of evil as a further witness that this farm setup by 

    ralph is unrighteous.

    They are partakers in the blood of the wicked and are being held 

    accountable.

    For the most part these people are pressured by their peers, always pleasing 

    men.

    This is truly a spineless nature of humanity.

     

    Brother Mike 

     

    NAME:: Thomas Belford

    FROM:: To The former Stairite

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    There was no love of GOD coming from Stair at all on his farm.

    It was set up for the lusts of his flesh  

    You are a Spiritual coward.

    Give your name when you post here. You should not hide who you are if you want to have any credit at all.

    NAME:: Unknown Critic

    FROM:: loving people

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Quote "It was a beautiful place and loving people." < true. I am sure that the place is well kept and the people living there are generally decent people. stair seeks to deceive the gullible.


    "The way you guys on here quote scripture and spend all day talking about Brother Stair is ridiculous." < not true. The Net Team deals with different issues and false ministries (ministries of satan) including mr. stair's.


    It is like you only have one note on your guitar - to "expose his sins."  < not true. stair's sins have long been exposed. What the Net Team is doing now is warning those who would consider ralph stair as a valid ministry and who might even be considering relocating themselves and their family to 12680 Augusta Hwy, Eleven Miles North of Walterboro, South Carolina.



    NAME:: Careful Thinker

    FROM:: In your Face

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    I would'nt call porno a good result of learning from ralph's ways.

    Sure as long as it isn't your sweet child who is being swindled into

    jammin with some ole man, everything is great.

    What is your name?

    Were you there by choice?

    How did you get there?

    Free will?

    No you can never understand.

    ralph has no conscience and this attribute has passed to many

    others I am afraid.

    Anyway it's not to late to ask everyone for forgiveness

    while you still have time.

    All of us love you and have shown love daily to all at the farms, so you are 

    without excuse.

    The farms hold a few vessels of holiness and this is what is felt

    when you refer to the farm as a wonderful place.

    Yes God's spirit is, and one day YOU may return to it.

    This is the hope.

    The only way back is through repentance of your filthy

    sins, with the first stop to stop defending evil as if it were

    GOOD.

    Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.


    NAME:: Former Stairite

    FROM:: Columbia, SC

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    I had planned to never write on this site again - but maybe not. 

    You might or might not post this, I don't care, but I lived at the farm so I am not someone who doesn't know what you are talking about, or the people. 

    It was a beautiful place and loving people.

    The way you guys on here quote scripture and spend all day talking about Brother Stair is ridiculous. 

    It is like you only have one note on your guitar - to "expose his sins."  True Christians have one note and it is Jesus, and emanating Him would be forgiveness, love, wisdom, and understanding.  I am sure you will respond to this but I don't care.  This grapevine stuff is your way of feeding bitterness.



    NAME:: Unknown Critic

    FROM:: You owe me

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    You owe me for getting you that clip

    http://www.thenetteam.net/stair_theresa.mp3

    You owe me Mike

    Don't you ever forget it

    A lot of people in Canadys and Walterboro talking about what a thug stair is.

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: Oppressors Snare

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Jer 5:26 For among my people are found wicked men: they lay wait, as he that setteth snares; they set a trap, they catch men.

    27 As a cage is full of birds, so are their houses full of deceit: therefore they are become great, and waxen rich.

     

    Psa 69:22 Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.

    23 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.

    24 Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them.

    Psa 140:5 The proud have hid a snare for me, and cords; they have spread a net by the wayside; they have set gins for me. Selah.

    Psa 142:3 When my spirit was overwhelmed within me, then thou knewest my path. In the way wherein I walked have they privily laid a snare for me.

    4 I looked on my right hand, and beheld, but there was no man that would know me: refuge failed me; no man cared for my soul.

    Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

    25 It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy, and after vows to make inquiry.

    27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

    Eccl 9:12 For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.

    Isa 24:17 Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.

    18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake.

    Hosea 9:8 The watchman of Ephraim was with my God: but the prophet is a snare of a fowler in all his ways, and hatred in the house of his God.

    Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.

     




    NAME:: M. Rowland

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Grapevine Wrote:

    " I am sitting here, on Jan 1, 2012, listening to the service at the Overcomer Ministry Walterboro, SC aka the Ministry of Ralph Stair.  As I listen, I notice immediately he sounds the same as he did in the late 90's.
    What Ralph Stair demands from his audience is complete agreement and compliance whether they agree or not.  You will hear him bring up subjects from one spectrum to the next and when the audience will not give an amen or an approval, immediately Ralph will call them rebels or inferior to his knowledge"

    Bro Mike Writes:

    " Yes ralph has always done this as a means of checking the water so to speak. he will never change.

    After bullying , pushing and shoving with the spirit of oppression until everyone is exhausted, ralph will hit on another virgin telling her how great she is and how his god wants her to "give all"  day after day after day.

    All of this will go unchecked until another group of young people are completely defiled with ralph's technique of mind control.

    All who question ralph's position for any reason will be targeted and treated as the enemy.

    Anyone who tries to correct ralph for his continued evil practices will be driven off of ralph's property on Augusta Hwy in Canaday's Sc.

    I will never forget living under this type of leadership for as long as I live. One incident stands out today as I think back.

    I went down to the metal scrap yard to take a load of steel in locally.

    Of course everyone who lived in Waterboro Sc knew what ralph had been doing for many years, I was the one who didn't know yet.

    Tommy was the owner at the time and he said that he knew of this place in Canaday's where I was now living, ralph's farm.

    Tommy said that it was known around town that ralph had an entire harem of girls at his disposal.

    Naturally I just thought he was kidding and was his way of insulting  the commune.

    I rejected the idea for another 4 years until ralph got caught once again seducing the gitty, silly young girls who were virgins of other men.

    These girls were told that in the Bible David had 8 wives so God understands multiply partner arrangements, oh and David also stole one girl away from another man and God overlooked it.

    So you see the Bible is being taught in a perverted way to these unsuspecting girls, along with their often very young family heads.

    ralph has used all of his knowledge and experience to oVercome and trap many gullible beginners in Christ,  through witchcraft.

    ralph will always beat and bully till all will fall at he feet in total worship.

    ralph lives for the thrill of improving his ability to violate, steel and kill, while being hailed internationally as God's most holy profit for these end days.

    Some say that people like this are stuck in a rut or just hooked on sin, but I say that they are possessed by these rotten dark forces.

    Thanks for the comment Grapeville, it took me back to when I lived at this commune of ralph stair's.

     

     




    NAME::  Grapevine

    FROM:: Illinois

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     I am sitting here, on Jan 1, 2012, listening to the service at the Overcomer Ministry Walterboro, SC aka the Ministry of Ralph Stair.  As I listen, I notice immediately he sounds the same as he did in the late 90's.
    What Ralph Stair demands from his audience is complete agreement and compliance whether they agree or not.  You will hear him bring up subjects from one spectrum to the next and when the audience will not give an amen or an approval, immediately Ralph will call them rebels or inferior to his knowledge.
     
    My fellow brothers and sisters, God is immensely merciful and full of compassion and He gives His men of God instructions similar to His own character.


    2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
    2 Timothy 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;


    In addition to the multiple instructions of showing meekness and mercy to your fellow family of God, Jesus teaches on the subject of authority.


    Luke 22:25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
    Luke 22:26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
    Luke 22:27 For whether is greater, he that sitteth at meat, or he that serveth? is not he that sitteth at meat? but I am among you as he that serveth.


    This serves to show that authority exists but it must be exercised with caution, lest others comply based on fear and intimidation not in knowledge and understanding.  I truely believe if others don't want to comply when they are given clear instructions that conform to scripture and the entire eldership of a body, then discipline must exist but in complete fairness.  However, just like Fathers aren't to use provocation towards their children, how much more the Leaders of the Flock of God.  I would like to hear anyones comments on how authority still exists even when all the instructions of God are ignored.  To me it reminds me of King Saul, when Israel was in apostacy while the remnant was enduring scattered abroad. 


    Blessings in the Name of the Lord




    NAME:: 

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    END GAME

    Blueprint For Global Enslavement

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-CrNlilZho

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: USA SICKO'S

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1154359952326178355#

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM::  Agreeing

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Absolutely, positively let' s always pray that the scriptures will take precedence in their lives, instead of letting the control freak's fear lead them around.

    Ole ralph is a real monster, almost eating their soul in one setting if any dare disagree.

    Well that's the way it feels when YOU are the person ralph is trampling in Jesus Name.

    I been seeing your vid's Josh, great going.

    Not everyone the says Lord Lord will enter, only those who do God's will.

    So let's all pray that they chose the will of God before it's to late.

     




    NAME:: Joshua Bell

    FROM::  Agreeing

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     Agreeing with Jason Adams...


    "all we can do is pray that those people can pick themselves back up and carry on" and continue to follow Christ because so many have gone off the deep end either into sin or weird religious stuff.


    NAME:: Jason P Adams 

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    The people of the stair commune will also have that "Oh man,I can't believe I actually believed him" kind of feeling. Their whole world will gut pulled out from under them and all we can do is pray that those people can pick themselves back up and carry on.

     




    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM:: No Other God's Before ME

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media, propaganda, or other methods, to create an idealized and heroic public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise.[1] Cults of personality are usually associated with dictatorships. The sociologist Max Weber developed a tripartite classification of authority; the cult of personality holds parallels with what Weber defined as 'charismatic authority'.

    A cult of personality is similar to hero worship, except that it is established by mass media and propaganda. However, the term may be applied by analogy to refer to adulation of religious or non-political leaders.

    While the cult of personality generally applies to the enhancement and promotion of a political or religious doctrine, it stands to reason that it is also asserted in everyday situations where popularity is used to advocate conformity to philosophies and lifestyles, even products and attitudes by way of peer pressure and herd mentality.

    Bro Mike writes:

    Anyone knowing what ralf does at his farm with all of the little girls and stays with ralf thinking it is the will of god (their god ralf) are putting their soul in the hand of a man for salvation.

    This is true primarily because God Almighty tells us to separate from all evil, so in this case where individuals bow in fear at the words of false bro stair or any leader and refuse to obey the truth of God's commands, have willingly made a choice to follow a mans words over God's words.

    This is the same as having another gOd before The only one true and living GOD.

    Exo  20: 3 (The Lord SAID)Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

    Exo 15:26
    And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

    Exo 19:5 (The Lord SAID) Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:


    NAME:: Rowland

    FROM:: OLD LAW

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Here is one listing in scripture that lets God's people know what all of the other nations on earth do against the LAW.

    God tells them that they are to be different in that THEY are to follow HIS LAW.

    Keep in mind that ALL of the other peoples of the world who do not keep GOD'S HOLY LAW end up doing some or all of the listed evils.

     

    Lev 18:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
    2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, I am the LORD your God.

    3 After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do: and after the doings of the land of Canaan, whither I bring you, shall ye not do: neither shall ye walk in their ordinances.((Xmas,istar,halloween,st.patties day, etc................) other than it's ok to have sex with a 3 year old girl in the Muslim relig. and more such filth.)

    4 Ye shall do my judgments, and keep mine ordinances, to walk therein: I am the LORD your God.

    5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.

    6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.

    7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

    8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.

    9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.

    10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.

    11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

    12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.

    13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister; for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.

    14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.

    15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.

    16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.

    17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.

    18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.

    19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.

    20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbour's wife, to defile thyself with her.

    21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

    22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

    23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

    24 Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you:

     

    25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants.

    26 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you:

    27 (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled;)

    28 That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you.

    29 For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations, even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people.

    30 Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

     

     




    NAME:: Bro_ 

    FROM:: Grapevine

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Today some information was confirmed to me from a brother who constantly talks with another brother who attends Stairs meetings weekly....

    Stair had his Hard drive stolen from his radio room a little over a week ago... There has been speculation from Stair that it was his ex-radio man and others postulate it was one of the young men left and landing in jail and was recently released....
    Either way...God allows enemies to be raised up....to bring kingdoms crumbling down...certainly its time...

    Be Strong in the Lord




    NAME:: Stephen

    FROM:: Philadelphia

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    COURT: Who’s Who and What to Say

    Published by admin under Knowing Who You Are

    My position on going to court has always been: never voluntarily go to court. Live men and women are not meant to be in any place designed solely for the business of fictional entities. When we attend court, we are deemed dead, in fact, they cannot deal with us until we admit to being dead….a legal fiction….a trust. Court is for titled persons: judge, prosecutor, defendant, bailiffs, cops, and attorneys. Live men and women are not recognized, so it makes sense to send in a dead person––an attorney––to handle our cases …. except for one thing: they do not know how the system works, due to their indoctrination.  If you can find one to do as you say, then you will prevail, but most of them would rather hang onto their BAR cards than behave honourably. The only thing that dead, fictional entities want from us is our life energy, and the only way they can get it is by our agreement. Without us, they cannot function, so, they are desperate to get us into court, to have us pay the debt which they created by charging the trust.

    Since common law courts no longer exist, we know that the case never has anything to do with “facts” or live men and women and so, anyone who testifies (talks about the facts of the case) is doomed. ALL courts operate in trust law, based upon ecclesiastical canon law–– ritualism, superstition, satanism, etc.––which manifests as insidious, commercial law and we are in court to take the hit, if they can get us to do so. They use every trick in the book––intimidation, fear, threat, ridicule, rage, and (for more click the link at the top)

     




    NAME:: Brother Frank

    FROM:: WAFFLE-BURRO, Yes See

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::
    Dave, clearly you need to go to Waffle-boro or burro as it applies in this situation.

    Ralph is surrounded by "YES" men, who by their involvement in the rapes at "RAPE-IST-BORO" are implicated in the cover-up at cult-o-burro.

    Now their are openings for yes men, liars, and spine-less elders, since the latest group of abused folk we call Believers, Brothers & Sisters in The Lord Jesus Christ have been abused in every way imaginable continues.

    If your measure is with kind loving words of forgiveness and you do not rebuke, yet look the other way, are you not guilty?

    You see your measure is weak. What have you done lately to stop a rape? A beating? An abuse of power? A stealing? A manipulation of wealth, a manipulation of brother against brother, sister against sister, false doctrine, false prophecy, seperating married couples, seperating families?

    I'll be waiting for your reply. Many lived under this tyranny for years by the wolf of what-a-bummer.

     




    NAME:: Jacob Williamson

    FROM:: Alabama

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

     

    To all these blind people that are defending Stair...I said it before and I say it again.

    "When you repent of your sins, you should turn from your wicked ways and at least TRY to make an effort to stop your old mess."

     Stair has been doing this stuff for YEARS and yet some still continue to follow this false, so called prophet.

    What will it take for some of you stupid people to wake up?

    Maybe you need to send your daughter to him and let him rape her? Then maybe you will get the picture.

    Stair had a lady pregnant at the same time that his first wife was pregnant with one of his children and he made her go and have an abortion.

    He has been up to no good for years and still is.

    Yet there are still people that follow him.

    It is obvious that these people wouldn't know God if he stood right in front of them.

    You folks better ask God to put you on the straight and narrow way or you will be left here with Stair after the Lord comes.

    We are not being unforgiving. Just tired of seeing Stair hurt people.

    God is looking for a people who will take a stand for TRUTH and RIGHTEOUSNESS.

     




    NAME:: Dave Elbridge

    FROM:: Savanah, GA

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Look Bro. Stair has suffered enough for his sins.

    We don't need to bring them up again.

    What every happened to forgiveness?

    Jesus commanded us to forgive.

    This people in this group are full of hatred.

    Why not show the love of Christ and forgive instead of being full of hate filled words?

    The same measure you judge you will be judged.

    As far as I am concerned this whole site is the work of the enemy.




    NAME:: Stan

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    There were two prophecies I recall Stair making. One was having to do with the Pope riding into Jerusalem on the back of a jack-ass.

    This never happened.

    The Pope did visit Jerusalem but he never rode in on any jack-ass.

    The second had to do with Ronald Reagan's death. Stair said that they would spend well over one billion $ on Reagan's funeral.

    I think the final cost of Reagan's funeral was just over $2 million.

    What cracked me up was the prophecy where Stair would face off with the Pope in Jerusalem.




    NAME:: 

    FROM::

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS

    Sign Here::

    Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; 

    "Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD."

    Jer 48:10 Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.

    Mal 2:..................................saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. (Care what I say)

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    2Pet 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:

    15 Which have forsaken the right way, (Without Law)

     

    Exo 12:23 For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

    24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.

    25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the LORD will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.

    26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?

    27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the LORD'S passover,

     

    Christ is that same Passover lamb once and forever.







    NAME:: Bro Mike

    FROM::Posts

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    Sign Here::

    2002-2007  Guest Book Entries

    http://www.thenetteam.net/control1.guest.htm




    NAME:: Brother Frank

    FROM:: Saferboro

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    Saferboro,s.c.(stare con-tagious)

    Ralph says a lot of things. So what?

    He has never attemped to even pay back those he stole from.

    His sexual problem is unbelievable that he is even there. He is above it all.

    "You people" are his little sick sideshow for whatever da profit wants da profit gets! He controls EVERYTHING at the Love Shack, don't you get it Terry?

    It's closed off to the world. He can payoff people, he can keep the land yet tell everyone it's shared.

    When he says "give all" what do you think he really means?

    He is an all consuming demon possessed profit from hell.

    Your ears are deceiving you. He left so many people far worse for meeting up with him.

    He is a dictator and the victims continue to multiply.




    NAME:: Repeat

    FROM:: Ralphspeak

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    RALPHSPEAK-TO-ENGLISH DICTIONARY

    Editor's Note-- The successful translation of Ralphspeak to English requires an awareness of the dual meaning of words in Ralphspeak, either applies-to-Ralph or applies-to-others. In the definitions given, "mindless", of course, does not mean "mind of Christ".

    repentance (Ralph)-- damage control.
    repentance (others)-- mindless obedience to Ralph.

    humility (Ralph)-- showtime.
    humility (others)-- mindless obedience to Ralph.

    submission to God (Ralph)-- putting up with "you people" as Ralph rapes and pillages.
    submission to God (others)-- mindless obedience to Ralph

    annointed (Ralph)-- possessed by hell.
    annointed (others)-- looks, sounds, feels, tastes or smells good, so let's steal it and use it to reinforce mindless obedience to Ralph.

    truth (Ralph)-- whatever Ralph says, even if it contradicts the Bible or what Ralph said before.
    truth (others)-- whatever reinforces what Ralph says.

    prophesy (Ralph)-- wait for something to happen, then pretend to have foretold it.
    prophesy (others)-- try to steal Ralph's mind control scheme and money machine, unless what is prophesied makes Ralph look good, in which case the definition becomes the same as for "truth (others)".

    holy (Ralph)-- not in jail.
    holy (others)-- in perfect mindless obedience to Ralph.

    innocent (Ralph)-- got away with it.
    innocent (others)-- fresh meat.




    NAME:: Terry

    FROM:: The Man Repented

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    I think it's time we show mercy. The man fell into sin and repented. What ever happened to Christian compassion?




    NAME:: Anonymous

    FROM::A Year Later

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    Mark, I read your guestbook entry and I want to say I remember an incident in the dininghall RG was angry and he said a brother( I will not mention his name) accused him of watching pornography on the internet and he denied it saying

    "he never and never will watch the pornography."

    Later during the day RG was walking around the grounds and came to me and several other brothers and told us that the brother that accused him (RG) of watching pornography was Bro. Mark.

    And remember he was caught a year later.

    So RG was lying. It's not the voice we are against it's that deceiving spirit. He loves to lock you in by the words you say so be careful what you say.

    He's a dangerous man.

    Praying for you and everyone there..




    NAME:: Thomas Belford

    FROM::Which are you?

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    We all pay taxes to be apart of this country and to live here. We all know alot does not go for what we are told it is for . But until it is fixed or exposed nothing will change. I home schooled but pay taxes for public schools . Ralph does just like the goverment does, he shift's his money that has been given to him freely from those he has deceived for ralph's needs.Once you give somthing you have given up your say on what it is used for. You can take it to court but remember you did give it or you would still have it. I have seen some give all they have and then some but they were not liked by ralph and his top men so they beat them until they had to finaly kick them off the land because they would not leave on there own. And I have seen the ones they liked that had given alot and they are still there.Which are you would you still be there if you were liked and treated better. I was liked but I am gone. There are fathers there that had there dauthers raped like me they were liked they stayed they made there choice and it was ralph over GOD




    NAME:: Roger Hudock

    FROM:: Maine

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    I have a tremendous amount of respect for Michael Rowland and Thomas Belford. They have shown a great deal of self-restraint.

    If Stair had done that with my wife or daughter I would have taken him out.




    NAME:: Brian C.

    FROM::Sodomy / Sex laws

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    "The hope of the Christian Church is in the southern states." What a lie! The hope of the Christian Church is not in any state or location. (Mark 13:21). The hope of the Christian Church is in the Lord Jesus Christ alone and His coming (blessed hope - Titus 2:13).

    The reason why Stair located in SC is because of their lax sodomy / sex laws. He knew he could get away with it. He continues to rape and pillage. Don't worry saints. God will avenge.

    Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

     




    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Rejection

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    Psa 81:11 But my people would not hearken to my voice; and Israel would none of me.

    12 So I gave them up unto their own hearts' lust: and they walked in their own counsels.

    Prov 1:24 Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded;

    25 But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof:

    26 I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

    23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

    Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.




    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Swept Under The Rug

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    Gen 13:13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

    2Chron 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

    Every religious person quotes this verse but not the one after it.

    19 But if ye turn away, and forsake my statutes(Laws) and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;

    20 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations.

    Psa 7:11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

    Psa 9:16 The LORD is known by the judgment which he executeth: the wicked is snared in the work of his own hands. Higgaion. Selah.

    17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.

    Psa 10:2 The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.

    3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.

    Psa 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.

    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

    49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,




    NAME::

    FROM::

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    Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, .........(Xmas Tree Worship)

     

    3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the ax.

    4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

     

    Jer 38:6 Then took they Jeremiah, and cast him into the dungeon ........................................................they let down Jeremiah with cords. And in the dungeon there was no water, but mire: "so Jeremiah sunk in the mire."

     

    Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

    Luke 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.


    Ezek 36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

    1 Sam 2:22 Now Eli was very old, and heard all that his sons did unto all Israel; and how they lay with the women that assembled at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.

    Jer 50:14 Put yourselves in array against Babylon round about: all ye that bend the bow, shoot at her, spare no arrows: for she hath sinned against the LORD.

    Rev 17:Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

    2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

    3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

    5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (Universal Religious Order) (You know, everybody else does it, it must be OK) (I pay Tithe, My preacher says I am good for another year)

    6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    9...........The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.(This is Rome and the one world religious philosophy of today)

    Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

    Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

    Rev 18:5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.


     

    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Do Law

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    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    15 For without are dogs,

     

    I guess you will throw this verse out.

    But Brother Mike OUR preach says its okay to DO Xmas.


    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Armies

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    Jer 19:5 They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:

    Jer 21:10 For I have set my face against this city for evil, and not for good, saith the LORD: it shall be given into the hand of the king of Babylon, and he shall burn it with fire.

    Ezek 16:41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.

    Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.

    Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.



    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::IRON

     Law (Full Swing)

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    Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

    Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

    Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    Rev 19:behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

    12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

    13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

    15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

    16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

    Luke 21:(Jesus said)20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

    22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

    Nahum 1:2 God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies.

    Micah 5:15 And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard.

    Jer 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompense.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.



    NAME::D Giles

    FROM::UK

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    Greetings to you in The Name of The Lord God,

    Thank you so much for your efforts in exposing this man R. G. Stair who is clearly an evil charlatan, and a very dangerous man. 

    I live in the UK and I first heard of him by his broadcasts on short wave here to the UK. He is very dangerous because when I first heard him I really thought he preached the truth from the scriptures. I found his claim that he was a last day prophet to be rather outrageous, since much of what he said showed that he was not really a prophet at all. 

    Nevertheless from his broadcasts for a few weeks I was taken in and believed that he did have an anointing and was preaching truth.

    Then I looked at his web site, and as I listened to him on the radio more I became suspicious since certain cracks began to show in what he said. 

    Fortunately I have become well versed in the scriptures since I was 14 years old (I am now 68) and I could thus begin to see that he did not know the scriptures as well as he was claiming. 

    He called The Revelation "Revelations" for example and that is always a sign! 

    When I observed that his web site mandated cookies for some functions and that it mandated the latest versions of software, which meant the poorest over the world could not connect to his messages thereon because it was not retrospectively compatible I became increasingly suspicious.

    I therefore sent him an e-mail message pointing out these things to him. I received what can only be described as an abusive and illiterate e-mail reply from him. 

    I then knew immediately that this man was a charlatan. I wrote back and told him so - no reply now he was found out finally. 

    I then began to search on the internet and discovered that he was already well exposed and convicted.

    This man is so dangerous to believing Christians in the world at present with his broadcasts. Many believing men particularly who are scripturally aware can see the present Apostasy in the Church and initially Stair seems to be if they are not careful anointed in a special way.

    There is a dearth of such preaching with doctrinal truth today; and there is a restrained appetite for it.

    It is this which he is exploiting, which is what makes him so dangerous. He may have commenced with sincerity, but it is clear that he has now been taken over by the Evil One.

    Thank you so much again for your exposure of him and his immorality and crimes etc.

    Love in Christ,
    Dougall

    Email     dougg@hotpop.com

    NAME::

    FROM::Holy Laws

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    Mark 10:19 You know the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

    20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

    21 THEN JESUS beholding him LOVED HIM, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

    Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

    John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

    21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

    You do don't keep the LAW? You don't love GOD!!


    NAME::Tom

    FROM::

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    If the attacks be vicious… the attacker must be vicious. The attacks on these girls were exceedingly vicious.

    These girls did not stand a chance against the likes of Ralph.

    They were traumatized. They were brutalized. They were sodomized.

    Would you want to bring your kids down there to this demon-possessed madman?


    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::brian's donnybrook?

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    Hello Brian

    I am glad you just got saved but let me address one of your recent post.

    You stated things like people who follow the Law and not grace were twisting the word and you used Col 2.

    14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    You quoted this as if Christ had NAILED the LAW to HIS cross.

    This is not so. Nothing could be further from the TRUTH.

    The handwriting of ordinances were as follows

    In Colossians 2:14-17, we find seven important points, which are all related closely in this passage.  These points relate to the sacrificial system, which is a shadow of Christ, who is the sacrificial Lamb and is carrying out His High Priesthood in the heavenly sanctuary.  The seven key phrases in this passage where we can derive these seven points from are: (1) the handwriting of ordinances; (2) in meat, or in drink; (3) an holy day, new moon, sabbath days; (4) which; (5) a shadow; (6) things to come; (7) the body is of Christ.

    All these points are related to and point towards the sacrificial service system and Christ’s High Priesthood ministry in heaven.   In other words, the sacrifices and ritual services by the priests on every "holy day, new moon, sabbath" in the earthly sanctuary are a shadow of the ministry of Christ who serves as the High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary, based on His sacrifice on the cross.

    I understand that those around you who claim that they know way more than you do at say your cHurch make you feel like they are right.

    Don't follow them, follow the scripture.

    The reason I say it this way is because for years I did the same thing.

    I stopped listening to everyone else and now I listen to the spirit.

    The LAW was not nailed to the cross.

    That's what the preachers tell you sure.

    God Bless You Brian the ball is in your court now.




    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Money Preachers

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    I was going down the road the other day and occasionally I will run past a preacher of radio.

    FM radio is full of these guys on SUNDAY.

    So the man took a simple passage from the Bible and it sounded so nice to hear until he got to the part about the money.

    As I listen these days to others speaking about God, I can not find one preacher who does not lie through his teeth.

    This guy went on the say that many many rich people would go to heaven and the way he brought this out was the account of the RICH man and Lazarus.

    The preacher was trying to get the focus off of himself because he was so wealth as he preached to the poor captive congregation, by stating the story had nothing to do with being RICH whatsoever and that being RICH would not keep you out of God's Kingdom.

    These lies go right over most people's head.

    Look at these verses

    1 Tim 6:  8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.

    9 But they that will be RICH fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

    10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

    Hey wait Abraham was RICH so what's the big deal?

    Luke 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.

    24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have RICHES enter into the kingdom of God!

    25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a RICH man to enter into the kingdom of God.
    26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?



    NAME::North Carolina

    FROM::

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    Men that live at stairs farm today will have a very numb feeling come over them when all things come to an end.

    The hair will rise on the back of their necks when they come to realize that the voice they have followed for so long has cost them their souls.

    They have seen the evil stair has repeated over and over and they have worshiped him and raised stair up as the way to salvation
     
    Added: December 5, 2010

     



    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::stairway to heaven

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    North Carolina Wrote:

    "Men that live at stairs farm today.......................have seen the evil stair has repeated over and over and they have worshiped him and raised stair up as the way to salvation.

     

    Bro Mike Writes

    I believe that most of the grown men there know exactly what stair is doing, will do and do know God.

    They do not realize the words in scripture telling God's people to separate from all evil, so you are right carolina.

    They must not be a friend of God's if they are friends with stair and his polluted farm harem.

    The way you put it is so right and to the point, I am honored to discover such wisdom on the earth.

    Those people are worshipping ralph stair as a demi-god, choosing ralph over the words of life for salvation.

    These men are fearful that if they left the farm,  God would cast them out of his kingdom, based on ralph's words, saying he is God's messenger and all leaving him are leaving the will of GOD.

    So yes they are living in fear of losing their souls to the men ralph stair.

    ralph is their savior so to speak, though they would never see this.

    NAME::

    FROM::

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    Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

    The words of the LAW show right from wrong.

    Jesus is THE WORD in flesh who lived among US.

    Psa 119:15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.

    16 I will delight myself in thy statutes(LAW): I will not forget thy word(RULE BOOK).

    105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    This WORD OF GOD directs us as to what is right and wrong clean and unclean, Holy and unholy.

    The Law and ORDER of THE Almighty is worth living by, thumb your noses at it at your own risk.
     
    Added: December 2, 2010

     

    NAME::Brian

    FROM::Closer To The Truth

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    How is a statement given by God (see sbove John 1:17),a question? Since Jesus separates Himself from the giving of the law and declares Himself to giver of Grace and Truth personified within the Godhead.

    Your statement about dumbed-down Christianity is completely true but,totally irrelevant to the statement,not question from John,allow the perspicuity of scripture to define-Jesus IS never personified as LAW

    Please dont take it wrong Mike we are getting closer to the Truth here
    Good Job Mike!
    peace to you
    Brian

    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::Understanding GOD

     SUBMITTED COMMENTS
    There is still some question about this verse

    John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but
    grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

    Let me say it this way for you once again.

    Keep in mind that these attributes of God like Law, Grace and truth have always been part of God's character, these are not some new developments as time goes by.

    So when the Bible records events like "The Law came by MOSES"

    this does not mean that with the birth of Moses that some new discovery came about like Columbus finding the north American continent.

    This Law was simply given to Israel from God at the appointed time, then on down the road of history, Jesus came, and displayed another important characteristic of GOD to HIS chosen people, being Grace.

    Truth was another but first let's look at Grace.

    Grace was on full display as I said with the manifestation of GOD in flesh to the point that the religious groups in Jesus day thought Jesus had violated the Law.

    This is because Violations of Laws should bring punishment according to the LAW of God. When Jesus did not order the judgment of instant death the hypocrites said HE could not be from GOD.

    Further Jesus went out of his way to let everyone know that HE had not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it.

    So how is this possible?

    Lets start by understanding that all Kings have Law because without LAW there is no order.

    Law and order is what keeps the dogs and wolves from eating your children.

    Got it genius?

    Now moving on to GRACE. This Grace is needed in connection with keeping the LAWS of GOD.

    Yes Moses delivered the LAW but hey Jesus showed that by Grace we could eventually keep the Law a little better with some practice, where before you would be put to death already with some violations on the first go around.

    So grace remember is UNDESERVING FAVOR!!

    So sure the Law of God was delivered to men at the mouth of Moses, but even better, Grace, another aspect of God's character, came with Jesus.

    How did it come with Jesus?

    By example Jesus taught Grace in HIS judgments concerning violations of the LAW.

    Let's take the scripture recording a woman caught in the very act of adultery as they brought only the woman for judgment.

    Grace forgave her and let her go free then grace said "GO and sin no more" or stop violating MY LAW.

    So Grace is used in relationship to matters of LAW.

    The Truth is Jesus is God. The WAY the TRUTH the LIFE is simply to accept Jesus as the only blood sacrifice for sins.

    All religions do not teach this TRUTH.

    Now reject that and you have push away the truth.

    Sure grace came to men in a great way, when Jesus taught by example forgiveness, but Jesus never tried to remove the LAW.

    Without the LAW there is no need for grace.

    Grace is unearned kindness in exchange for evil deeds done against the LAW of GOD, worthy of death.

    Always know that the LAW is good and that Jesus came to show us that HE could forgive a person many times so that with this GRACE (UNEARNED FORGIVENESS)begin to keep the rules. HE is hoping we as little children will grow up to do right by God's Laws and the ORDER of HIS kingdom.

    So sure by Moses came the starting point of knowing GOD, HIS LAWS, but even better yet by "God in flesh" came more TRUTH about who God is and what HE expects.

    God in flesh (Jesus) brought in grace/forgiveness postponing each one's judgment of death for the person's entire life, hoping that they will kneel to Christ for salvation from death.

    Hoping they will except God's gift of HIS SON's Blood sacrifice for SINS or violations of LAW.

    The TRUTH that God delivered by Jesus Christ is that there is no other way to HIM, other than by acknowledging one's sinful nature, allowing the blood (Sacrificial Lamb) of Jesus to cover for their Law violations, that we do not deserve.

    Now that is GRACE and TRUTH!

    GLORY!!!!!!!!!
     
    Added: December 5, 2010

     

    NAME::Brother Mike

    FROM::Jesus Lawgiver

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    Isa 33:22 For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.

    God bless you Brian here it is.

    Do you understand that Jesus is God in a human body?

    Maybe some religions say that Jesus was not God?
     

    NAME::Noel 

    FROM::

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    Is elijah yet to come or have he come already?
    2- Mr stair is claiming he is the sign, before the coming of the Lord Jesus, what is your take on that.



    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::My Take Noel

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    Hi Noel

    At the time of the writing of the book of Malachi Jesus had not come yet so yes this was a prophecy of the coming of Jesus. However John THe Baptist prepared the way for Jesus.

    Mal 4:4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven;

    Then goes on to say before this day that shall burn like an oven, God says this

    5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

    So we see that at the time of this writing of Malachi Jesus had not come and day that shall burn like an oven was to come also.

    Many 1000's of men today in the year 2010 claim that they are this Elijah figure.

    Moses, Elijah and Jesus were all translated and transfigured.

    Jesus fulfilled this prediction of the coming of Elijah or Elias, if you can receive it.

    Luke 1:17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.

    The next verses we see a virgin named Mary and Zacharias asking the angel questions.

    Luke 1 tells us that Jesus is the fulfillment of this prophecy of the coming messenger of the covenant.

    Good question Noel

    NAME::Bro Mike

    FROM::My Take Noel

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    The first part of Mat. 11;10  is an obvious reference to another messenger, John the Baptist.

    In this prophecy Malachi speaks of the coming of the Messenger of the covenant. That Messenger is Christ.

    Since the first messenger mentioned in the verse prepared the way for the second, the Messenger of the covenant must be Christ. Christ is called something similar in Hebrews 12:24, "And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant…." The Mediator of the covenant and the Messenger of the covenant are the same

    In Malachi 3:1 He is called the "Messenger" of the covenant.




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